Dear all,

First I would like to thank rec.food.drink.tea members, especially pu
erh related, for posting here since this group was one of the
inspirations for my interest in pu erh! And now it's a great source of
new pu erh related knowledge.

I would appreciate your help in indentifing two cooked pu erhs I have.
I was looking for some info about them for quite a long time but to no
effect.

First one is 100g Beeng Cha, so called "plum emdossed cake"

http://ph.icmp.lviv.ua/~vorobyov/BeengCha.jpg

which seems to be the same as the one at ITC website

http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...Category_ID=23

However ITC dosen't indicate the factory and year of production One
can read 高å*�普洱梅花饼茶 on the wrapper which again just
almost useless, just "good quality pu erh cake with plum flower" I
was told that my cake is 8 years old which I tend to believe but can't
be sure. My cake dosen't have any wrapper.

The same for the second one which is 50g Fang Cha

http://ph.icmp.lviv.ua/~vorobyov/FangCha.jpg

Again I was told that it is one year old, but no factory information.
Goes in polyethlene wrapper

Thank you so much though I understand that there might be not enough
information to tell anything.

Here is a Chinese discussion link found with Google:

http://translate.google.com/translat...as_ qdr%3Dall

You'll have to read between the lines (CNNP 2003) or if you can read
Chinese click the View Original Web Page. The 2003 5 x 100g bundle on
TaoBao was 138y or /8 for dollars.

Jim

Oleg wrote:
Dear all,

First I would like to thank rec.food.drink.tea members, especially pu
erh related, for posting here since this group was one of the
inspirations for my interest in pu erh! And now it's a great source of
new pu erh related knowledge.

I would appreciate your help in indentifing two cooked pu erhs I have.
I was looking for some info about them for quite a long time but to no
effect.

First one is 100g Beeng Cha, so called "plum emdossed cake"

http://ph.icmp.lviv.ua/~vorobyov/BeengCha.jpg

which seems to be the same as the one at ITC website

http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...Category_ID=23

However ITC dosen't indicate the factory and year of production One
can read 高å*�普洱梅花饼茶 on the wrapper which again just
almost useless, just "good quality pu erh cake with plum flower" I
was told that my cake is 8 years old which I tend to believe but can't
be sure. My cake dosen't have any wrapper.

The same for the second one which is 50g Fang Cha

http://ph.icmp.lviv.ua/~vorobyov/FangCha.jpg

Again I was told that it is one year old, but no factory information.
Goes in polyethlene wrapper

Thank you so much though I understand that there might be not enough
information to tell anything.

Hi Oleg,

The factory that produced the plum flower cakes is the probably same as the
one that produced the pumpkin pu'er that Jim has, the Ji Xing factory, or
lucky brand factory.

The one that you showed would be either the recent one, or it might be done
by another factory - the tablet usually has the plum flower imprint but not
the 'tea' character on the other side - that being said I'm familiar with
the tablet pre-2001, having tasted some, but not after, so your picture may
be one in the recent years or from another factory.

As for the squares, it is made almost by every other factory in Kunming -
figuratively.

Danny

"Oleg" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dear all,

First I would like to thank rec.food.drink.tea members, especially pu
erh related, for posting here since this group was one of the
inspirations for my interest in pu erh! And now it's a great source of
new pu erh related knowledge.

I would appreciate your help in indentifing two cooked pu erhs I have.
I was looking for some info about them for quite a long time but to no
effect.

First one is 100g Beeng Cha, so called "plum emdossed cake"

http://ph.icmp.lviv.ua/~vorobyov/BeengCha.jpg

which seems to be the same as the one at ITC website

http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...Category_ID=23

However ITC dosen't indicate the factory and year of production One
can read ???????? on the wrapper which again just
almost useless, just "good quality pu erh cake with plum flower" I
was told that my cake is 8 years old which I tend to believe but can't
be sure. My cake dosen't have any wrapper.

The same for the second one which is 50g Fang Cha

http://ph.icmp.lviv.ua/~vorobyov/FangCha.jpg

Again I was told that it is one year old, but no factory information.
Goes in polyethlene wrapper

Thank you so much though I understand that there might be not enough
information to tell anything.

Thank you, Jim and Danny!

But is Ji Xing (is it �幸?) a real name of the factory or just the
brand? For example this two products are claimed to be of "Ji Xing"
brand and produced by "Xing Hai Tea Mountain tea Co."

http://www.jingteashop.com/pd_ji.cfm#

http://www.jingteashop.com/pd_zhuan_cha_ban_zhang.cfm

Unfortunately I don't read Chinese

Thank you, Jim and Danny!

But is Ji Xing (is it �幸?) a real name of the factory or just the
brand? For example this two products are claimed to be of "Ji Xing"
brand but claimed to be produced by "Xing Hai Tea Mountain tea Co."

http://www.jingteashop.com/pd_ji.cfm#

http://www.jingteashop.com/pd_zhuan_cha_ban_zhang.cfm

Unfortunately I don't read Chinese

As for the second brick I suspected that this could be a kind of
"no-name" thing

Thanks!

I can be overruled but JiXing is the brand and Xin(g)Hai or HaiXin(g)
is the factory spelled both ways on TaoBao. Here is one picture from
TaoBao that shows the factory name but not the brand name. CNNP is
also an umbrella and only people in the know (like Danny) can identify
the particular factory. There is no reason for 50g+ sizes to be
missing wrappers. Only around 20g- is just the paper. You do see
special casings with bamboo and baskets but that is normal. Those are
the two characters for Ji Xing.

Jim

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...haiFactory.jpg

Oleg wrote:
Thank you, Jim and Danny!

But is Ji Xing (is it �幸?) a real name of the factory or just the
brand? For example this two products are claimed to be of "Ji Xing"
brand but claimed to be produced by "Xing Hai Tea Mountain tea Co."

http://www.jingteashop.com/pd_ji.cfm#

http://www.jingteashop.com/pd_zhuan_cha_ban_zhang.cfm

Unfortunately I don't read Chinese

As for the second brick I suspected that this could be a kind of
"no-name" thing

Thanks!

hi Oleg,

You have to take this up with Seb from Jing Teashop, haha!

Ji Xing is both a brand as well as the factory, it was created by CNNP
Yunnan branch in the 80s, along with another now defunct brand called Golden
Cockerel - Jin Ji...

I think I did mention on Jim's thread that Lucky Brand as well as the
factory has changed hands...

Danny


"Oleg" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thank you, Jim and Danny!

But is Ji Xing (is it ???) a real name of the factory or just the
brand? For example this two products are claimed to be of "Ji Xing"
brand but claimed to be produced by "Xing Hai Tea Mountain tea Co."

http://www.jingteashop.com/pd_ji.cfm#

http://www.jingteashop.com/pd_zhuan_cha_ban_zhang.cfm

Unfortunately I don't read Chinese

As for the second brick I suspected that this could be a kind of
"no-name" thing

Thanks!

Oleg -

I fully understand your attempt to know as much as you can about that tea.
However, after years of taking the wrappers seriously (I do read some
Chinese) I gave up after I saw how wrappers are sold on a teamarkets in
Yunnan. By hundreds! All types and of all factories.
So now when I buy something from my friend Roy at ITC and he tells me that
he bought that puerh himself from a factory warehouse I am almost sure that
what it is (there is a possibility that they fool Roy too). However I do not
really care anymore because I learned to like what I like and buy as much of
it as I can as soon as I figure out that I like it and not be too hang up
about the wrappers.
Here in Nevada once in a while I buy great fresh Fangcha in a teashop that
has no idea what they sell (they get this as a new product under the name
"Mongolian Tea" In reality its ???? . Nothing Mongolian about it.

Cheers,

Sasha.


"Oleg" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dear all,

First I would like to thank rec.food.drink.tea members, especially pu
erh related, for posting here since this group was one of the
inspirations for my interest in pu erh! And now it's a great source of
new pu erh related knowledge.

I would appreciate your help in indentifing two cooked pu erhs I have.
I was looking for some info about them for quite a long time but to no
effect.

First one is 100g Beeng Cha, so called "plum emdossed cake"

http://ph.icmp.lviv.ua/~vorobyov/BeengCha.jpg

which seems to be the same as the one at ITC website

http://www.imperialtea.com/AB1002000...Category_ID=23

However ITC dosen't indicate the factory and year of production One
can read ???????? on the wrapper which again just
almost useless, just "good quality pu erh cake with plum flower" I
was told that my cake is 8 years old which I tend to believe but can't
be sure. My cake dosen't have any wrapper.

The same for the second one which is 50g Fang Cha

http://ph.icmp.lviv.ua/~vorobyov/FangCha.jpg

Again I was told that it is one year old, but no factory information.
Goes in polyethlene wrapper

Thank you so much though I understand that there might be not enough
information to tell anything.

Mike Petro wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:24:05 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky"
wrote:


Sasha speaks the truth here. Alas they do NOT have a solid code of
ethics yet in China regarding "truth in advertising" and many such
forgeries exist.

They do indeed have a solid code of ethics in China regarding
''truth in advertising," Mike. It just doesn't happen to match
yours. :-)

Ourania ink.net11/21/05


Mike Petro wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:24:05 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky"
wrote:


Sasha speaks the truth here. Alas they do NOT have a solid code of
ethics yet in China regarding "truth in advertising" and many such
forgeries exist.

They do indeed have a solid code of ethics in China regarding
''truth in advertising," Mike. It just doesn't happen to match
yours. :-)


Would you kindly elaborate upon it.
Thanks.

Michael

"Ourania Zabuhu" wrote in message
nk.net...
Mike Petro wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:24:05 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky"
wrote:


Sasha speaks the truth here. Alas they do NOT have a solid code of
ethics yet in China regarding "truth in advertising" and many such
forgeries exist.

They do indeed have a solid code of ethics in China regarding ''truth in
advertising," Mike. It just doesn't happen to match yours. :-)

I happen to agree with Ourania, despite the fact that I am extremely
irritated by the way products are advertised in China. Here in the US we
also have tons of false advertising its just happen to be not about tea.
Just to read and hear every other minute of yet another "World leader
in..."... May be we should be more upset about our own "fine print"?
If you look at the issue closely you will see that really very few people
are upset about quality and truth while the majority eagerly eats up snake
oils and cannot wait for more. That means that the markets are OK with this
at current levels and as a pure market conservative I have to accept that.
That is why I stopped reading the wrappers. I buy a tea, like it and buy
more, don't like it and throw it away even if it has the authorized
signature of the late Chairman Mao himself. That approach works beautifully
with everything I tried. You can call it anti-branding.

Sasha.

Most of us Westerners can't read Chinese. Besides CNNP I don't think
it too much to expect factory and year from the seller or from
elsewhere along the line. Understanding what is on the wrapper adds to
the drinking ambience not the taste. Also knowing some particulars
might help you find it cheaper elsewhere. Speaking of a factory named
Nan Jian might be better than describing opposing dragons on their 100g
tuos or funny deer on their 200g mini beengs. On Ebay they're $2.50/$4
respectively on TaoBao $.50/$1. I did some homework. I buy teas blind
all the time with some educated guessing but I'm not throwing my money
away on lotto. I wished I could be overwhelmed by teamarkets with more
wrappers than I've ever seen. I'd stay at a hotel with a concierge and
make it worth while to pack and send by China Post.

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Oleg -

I fully understand your attempt to know as much as you can about that tea.
However, after years of taking the wrappers seriously (I do read some
Chinese) I gave up after I saw how wrappers are sold on a teamarkets in
Yunnan. By hundreds! All types and of all factories.
So now when I buy something from my friend Roy at ITC and he tells me that
he bought that puerh himself from a factory warehouse I am almost sure that
what it is (there is a possibility that they fool Roy too). However I do not
really care anymore because I learned to like what I like and buy as much of
it as I can as soon as I figure out that I like it and not be too hang up
about the wrappers.
Here in Nevada once in a while I buy great fresh Fangcha in a teashop that
has no idea what they sell (they get this as a new product under the name
"Mongolian Tea" In reality its ???? . Nothing Mongolian about it.

Cheers,

Sasha.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:16:07 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky"
wrote:

Sasha speaks the truth here. Alas they do NOT have a solid code of
ethics yet in China regarding "truth in advertising" and many such
forgeries exist.

They do indeed have a solid code of ethics in China regarding ''truth in
advertising," Mike. It just doesn't happen to match yours. :-)

I happen to agree with Ourania, despite the fact that I am extremely
irritated by the way products are advertised in China. Here in the US we
also have tons of false advertising its just happen to be not about tea.
Just to read and hear every other minute of yet another "World leader
in..."... May be we should be more upset about our own "fine print"?

You are quite right Sasha, but I was referring to tea not politics.
Here in the US we are fairly strict about the labeling of consumable
products in particular. We are also pretty strict about forgeries, at
least to the point that most knock-offs are driven to the black-market
instead of being mainstream. If I buy a box of Kraft macaroni and
cheese I can be extremely confident that it is indeed made by Kraft,
and this holds true for most edible *products*. We don't bother trying
to forge cheap stuff and food is almost held sacred. Now antiques,
watches, and other expensive collectibles are a whole different
matter, we do have our fair share of crooks there. Wanna buy a Rolexx
watch?

I guess the main difference is that we have much stiffer penalties so
the crooks don't bother forging cheap stuff, they tend to make it
worth their while in case they get caught. In China it seems that the
business ethics of right and wrong most certainly exist but they don't
devote the resources to deal with it at a criminal enforcement level.
The result is rampant dishonesty to the point of being considered
acceptable, consequently it is almost impossible to trust anything you
are told. Even cheap 25 cent items are blatantly forged. Personal
relationships and/or education are your only defense. The onus is
clearly on the customer to ensure fairness, even on the smallest of
transactions, with no expectation of government or legal support.
Small transactions in the US are usually honest, even amongst the
crooks.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net

Michael Plant wrote:
Ourania ink.net11/21/05



Mike Petro wrote:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:24:05 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky"
wrote:


Sasha speaks the truth here. Alas they do NOT have a solid code of
ethics yet in China regarding "truth in advertising" and many such
forgeries exist.

They do indeed have a solid code of ethics in China regarding
''truth in advertising," Mike. It just doesn't happen to match
yours. :-)



Would you kindly elaborate upon it.
Thanks.

Actually, I was just pointing out the cultural chauvinism
implicit in Mike's comment. What to Mike/us qualifies as
"ethical" may not be even be an "ethical" consideration at all in
another culture, or may even be deemed unethical or patently
ridiculous in terms of that culture's standard business practices.

But in any case, the labeling and advertising constraints in the
U.S. are the results of legislation and most definitely not the
result of ethics. Check out the label on a can of Campbell's
SpaghettiOs, for example. It emphasizes how healthy that junk is
for children (because vitamins are added). And Campbell's
advertising for that product claims, "Now you can feel good about
giving your kids what they are asking for!" because in addition
to being delicious (!), it's so healthful and will help them
grow. Then look at the ingredients. One small can contains over
one gram of sodium! On top of it, the whole salty mess is just a
glob of white flour and cheese and sugar. That's truth in
labeling and truth in advertising? No. That's ethical? No.
That's legal? Yes.

Or look at an ad from GM that says you can buy a car at x% over
invoice, or at employee discount prices, or whatever. Naturally,
the ad doesn't mention the dealer pack, the "manufacturer's
fees," etc., that result in the selling price being considerably
(and invariably) much higher than what was advertised:
unethical, untrue, and legal.

Our hubristic assertions about U.S. consumer protection (not to
mention U.S. business "ethics") are misinformed. Our notion that
other cultures' "ethics" are inferior to ours is, well, a
misguided assessment, at best.

Mike Petro wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:16:07 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky"

I happen to agree with Ourania, despite the fact that I am extremely
irritated by the way products are advertised in China. Here in the US we
also have tons of false advertising its just happen to be not about tea.
Just to read and hear every other minute of yet another "World leader
in..."... May be we should be more upset about our own "fine print"?


You are quite right Sasha, but I was referring to tea not politics.

We can find "weight loss tea" all over the place in the U.S.,
Mike. Do you know anyone who has ever lost weight by drinking
that stuff? :-)

Here in the US we are fairly strict about the labeling of consumable
products in particular.

I'm sure you've seen consumable products labeled "delicious" or
"nutritious" or "healthy" that don't even come close to being so.

We don't bother trying to forge cheap stuff
and food is almost held sacred.

Yeah, we're way too wealthy in the U.S. to bother with forgeries
these days, but if food were held sacred we wouldn't be seeing
such epidemic-level increases in diabetes, arteriosclerosis,
hypertension, and other food- or additive-correlated diseases.

The result is rampant dishonesty to the point of being considered
acceptable, consequently it is almost impossible to trust anything you
are told.

Obviously it's considered acceptable in China: it exists and
it's legal. It's considered acceptable and legal in all cultures
whose trading practices adhere to the standards of the bazaar.

Not trusting anything you're told is a logical and prudent
consumer practice anywhere in the world. "Trust" is as
unnecessary (and trouble-causing) a concept in the marketplace as
it is in a marriage. Use your senses and your intelligence to
guide your business affairs (and your personal relationships),
and leave fuzzy, vague, indefinable, and always relative notions
of "trust" to the self-help-product hustlers. You'll do fine!

Small transactions in the US are usually honest, even amongst the
crooks.

Not so, if your determination of "honest" depends on accuracy in
advertising and labeling.