First, I would like to say hello to all the tea lovers out there and
hope that this initiation will lead to further discussions and comments
that will prove informative to all. I am a puerh lover myself and have
tasted over 100 different types of Puerh tea (both black and green
combined). However it is the green puerh that fascinates me with it's
range of flavors and complexity but with so many different brands and
varieties available it has all been quite an adventure, made all the
more confusing by not just the varied processing techniques that are
employed by different companies but by the different types of tea
leaves that are used for making the teacakes. There's the common
cultivated tea leaves, the semi-wild, the wild, the leaves from young
tea bushes, from centuries old trees, and then the highly desired
thousand years old tea trees (this btw is unlikely to be available to
the average consumer like us). Anyway does anyone really know the
difference in taste between these different types of teacakes and if
the taste is often as desirable as the words often employed to attract
buyers?

I can't tell the difference in taste between cultivated and wild
teacakes. I've tasted a lot but the wide scope of flavors appears to
be the same. I would be most appreciative if someone could shed some
light on this. From personal experience I've noticed that teacakes
(same age) from young tea bushes (50yrs) compared to older tea trees
(100+ yrs) have a lighter body and citrus/more acidic notes. The older
the tea tree the more mellow the taste becomes.

James

On 4 Oct 2005 20:03:05 -0700, wrote:

First, I would like to say hello to all the tea lovers out there and
hope that this initiation will lead to further discussions and comments
that will prove informative to all. I am a puerh lover myself and have
tasted over 100 different types of Puerh tea (both black and green
combined). However it is the green puerh that fascinates me with it's
range of flavors and complexity but with so many different brands and
varieties available it has all been quite an adventure, made all the
more confusing by not just the varied processing techniques that are
employed by different companies but by the different types of tea
leaves that are used for making the teacakes. There's the common
cultivated tea leaves, the semi-wild, the wild, the leaves from young
tea bushes, from centuries old trees, and then the highly desired
thousand years old tea trees (this btw is unlikely to be available to
the average consumer like us). Anyway does anyone really know the
difference in taste between these different types of teacakes and if
the taste is often as desirable as the words often employed to attract
buyers?

I can't tell the difference in taste between cultivated and wild
teacakes. I've tasted a lot but the wide scope of flavors appears to
be the same. I would be most appreciative if someone could shed some
light on this. From personal experience I've noticed that teacakes
(same age) from young tea bushes (50yrs) compared to older tea trees
(100+ yrs) have a lighter body and citrus/more acidic notes. The older
the tea tree the more mellow the taste becomes.

James


Hi James,

Your question is fantastic! I currently have 169 different puerhs in
my collection and I have tasted many more than that. One factor that
complicates any attempt to categorize taste is that "truth in
advertising" is not a concept being embraced by the Puerh Industry
yet. Many teas are sold as being *wild* or *ancient tea tree* or
whatever and very often it is simply not true, or at best only a small
portion of the leaf used was truly *wild*. The same even goes for
geographic claims. For example look at how much leaf was actually
harvested from Yi Wu mountain in a given year versus how many *Yi Wu*
cakes/bricks are being sold in the market. Combine this with different
processing and storage methods and it becomes very difficult to
develop a reliable taste profile. My research has shown that many
times (possibly most) the cakes are actually made from a blend of
mao-cha, where the teamaster uses different teas to bring specific
characteristics to the cakes. So unless you know the *true* source of
the mao-cha you cant really even begin to develop a profile.

I personally have observed such a wide range, often questioning the
validity of the advertised pedigree, that I would be hard pressed to
recognize cultivated from wild, young from ancient, etc in a blind
taste test. I have noticed that *true* wild ancient teas tend to have
a stronger qi than younger cultivated teas. I have also noticed
certain regional characteristics. For example Jing Mai teas tend to be
milder than other mountains. I have even added a *region* field to my
Puerh database in hopes to develop profiles of the various regions. A
recent offering by Chang Tai factory is a set of 16 different cakes
from 16 different mountains/regions. I am very excited about this
opportunity to develop these taste profiles. I have also heard rumors
that 6FTM factory is planning to release a similar offering.



Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net

The main hallmark of tea is the variety in taste. I've never tasted
any two mountainous Taiwan oolongs that were identical. The same for
Fujian rock tea or Ceylon elevations. The tea from the sunny side of
the hill might taste different than the shaded. There might be more
moisture. The soil might be more acidic. The time of the year. The
elevation. The environmental conditions go on and on. You can't even
give Yunnan credit for ancient varietal versus Indian Assam. I look on
the map and Yunnan is a big place from valleys to peaks. There are
other teas from Yunnan than puerh. That's been my biggest discovery
recently. There might be some common threads worth discovering about
puerh but I've never attempted to classify tea tastes only drink and
enjoy the moment with the variety from all over the world. The only
two conclusions I've made so far a little puerh goes a long way. I
think the raw reflects more the varietal in taste than the
transformation of taste in the cooked. At the end of the day puerh is
just more tea on the shelf. I don't really fret about the pedigree of
the teas I drink. I do worry about the bottom line. But all things
being equal I will say puerh is a good value for recent crops. Even
the cooked ones which unfortunately I have seem to be the wet storage
style (supposedly need airing) except one which I'll say is dry storage
and is a standout. That's the way it goes in tea, some you like some
you don't but that is only a moment in time. I just overbrewed a White
Monkey from Fujian and it has an astringent bite without being bitter
and a peachy flavor I only find in Taiwan oolongs. I haven't found a
delicate tea yet that couldn't stand up to a little abuse.

Jim

wrote:
First, I would like to say hello to all the tea lovers out there and
hope that this initiation will lead to further discussions and comments
that will prove informative to all. I am a puerh lover myself and have
tasted over 100 different types of Puerh tea (both black and green
combined). However it is the green puerh that fascinates me with it's
range of flavors and complexity but with so many different brands and
varieties available it has all been quite an adventure, made all the
more confusing by not just the varied processing techniques that are
employed by different companies but by the different types of tea
leaves that are used for making the teacakes. There's the common
cultivated tea leaves, the semi-wild, the wild, the leaves from young
tea bushes, from centuries old trees, and then the highly desired
thousand years old tea trees (this btw is unlikely to be available to
the average consumer like us). Anyway does anyone really know the
difference in taste between these different types of teacakes and if
the taste is often as desirable as the words often employed to attract
buyers?

I can't tell the difference in taste between cultivated and wild
teacakes. I've tasted a lot but the wide scope of flavors appears to
be the same. I would be most appreciative if someone could shed some
light on this. From personal experience I've noticed that teacakes
(same age) from young tea bushes (50yrs) compared to older tea trees
(100+ yrs) have a lighter body and citrus/more acidic notes. The older
the tea tree the more mellow the taste becomes.

James

Thank you for all your comments. Keep them coming. Taste can be
influenced by many things like Jim has mentioned and Mike you've
really nailed it for me. A lot of teacakes out there do contain a
mixture of different types of tea leaves. Like you said some will be
marketed as wild but the reality is that only a very low percentage of
wild leaves are used. This mixture however makes it impossible to
identify common characteristics in taste for these different types of
puerh (cultivated, wild or puerh teacakes made from young or old tea
trees). There are quality teacakes out there in limited production that
are solely catered to puerh connoisseurs which contains no such
mixture. The only mix would be in the grades of leaves used from the
buds down, for ex. the leaves would all be 100% wild, or 100% from old
tea trees. The price will be much more expensive but I'm sure
there's a market for it. If anyone has managed to purchase such
teacakes or experienced a pot we look forward to hearing from you.

James

Generally,

Pu'er teas before 1940s - singular plantation
Pu'er teas between 1940 - now from some main state ran factories - blend of
maocha
Pu'er teas now from new factories - singular plantation

Blend of maocha - this can be anything from
a. leaves from different plantations
b. leaves from different regions
c. leaves from wild, part cultivated, neglected, cultivated higland,
cultivated mid-highland, cultivated sea-level plantations
d. young flush - one from spring this year, one from autumn las year
e. mix of young and old leaves
blah blah blah

Affecting factors on storing:
a. high temperature & high humidity
b. high temperature & low humidity
c. Low temperature & high humidity
d. Low temperature & low humidity
e. vacuum pack
f. natrual elements: soil, weather, etc
g. yourself, metaphysically
blah blah blah

Can you tell the leaves apart? Yes you can. Brew several samples, taste
them, and leave the leaves in a glass of water overnight. Compare the
leaves next day and document them. After a while, you can tell them apart.
I can't, I'm too lazy. I'm happy as long as there's tea to drink! :")

Can you taste the leaves apart? Yes you can. But I can't, unless I brew the
teas very strong. A friend can taste the tea and tell the difference, right
down to the blend percentage. & I'm green with envy.

ps. Mike, 6FTM has produced some of the singular plantation teas, and if
you do visit this part of the world, I'll keep some of the 16 regions for
you.

Danny

I hope you're not a vendor looking for an opening but you never said
how you could taste so much puerh. I've scratched off Menghai and
Xiaguan from any future orders because I sense they are playing an
economic corner the market game. I'm just ordering stuff from
"no-name" factories because maybe they're small players with something
better than the big guys and nothing to prove. I know that is an
anthropological Western view. Maybe bigger is better in China. I cull
TaoBao and Ebay China looking for new factory names and wrappers. Not
that I'll ever get a chance to order something but I like to know it is
there and what it cost. 6FTM has a series out now of 6 special
regional cakes. I've got a couple that I haven't tried. There is a
seller on Ebay China that sells the small factory stuff and I'm trying
to push him into international orders. If I spoke the language it
might be easier to convince him. I've got a wild tree cooked beeng and
a wild tree raw log I think are distinct enough from others in
aroma,flavor,leaf not represented as such. If in fact they're not I'll
pretend they are. I don't see any reason why wild would be different
than cultivated in the same area. It seems to me the end product is
more influenced by processing factors than raw material. I worked in a
canning factory during college summer months and the end result was
graded by the hour for future sales too commercial labels.

Jim

wrote:
Thank you for all your comments. Keep them coming. Taste can be
influenced by many things like Jim has mentioned and Mike you've
really nailed it for me. A lot of teacakes out there do contain a
mixture of different types of tea leaves. Like you said some will be
marketed as wild but the reality is that only a very low percentage of
wild leaves are used. This mixture however makes it impossible to
identify common characteristics in taste for these different types of
puerh (cultivated, wild or puerh teacakes made from young or old tea
trees). There are quality teacakes out there in limited production that
are solely catered to puerh connoisseurs which contains no such
mixture. The only mix would be in the grades of leaves used from the
buds down, for ex. the leaves would all be 100% wild, or 100% from old
tea trees. The price will be much more expensive but I'm sure
there's a market for it. If anyone has managed to purchase such
teacakes or experienced a pot we look forward to hearing from you.

James

[...]
Jim and James,

[Jim]
I've scratched off Menghai and
Xiaguan from any future orders because I sense they are playing an
economic corner the market game. I'm just ordering stuff from
"no-name" factories because maybe they're small players with something
better than the big guys and nothing to prove.

Jim, I haven't crossed them off my list because I've had some damned good
Pu'erh from them, but I agree totally with your general thesis that bigger
is not necessarily better, and that the real finds are going to be had from
the little guys. Further, we could talk about production closer to the
source. I'm somewhat bothered by the idea that those little farmers send
their leaves to the big factories. I'll bet among the no-namers are local
farmers who do the whole production number right there under the trees and
the stars. Those are the guys I want to find.

Maybe bigger is better in China.

That seems to be the style nowadays.

I cull
TaoBao and Ebay China looking for new factory names and wrappers. Not
that I'll ever get a chance to order something but I like to know it is
there and what it cost. 6FTM has a series out now of 6 special
regional cakes. I've got a couple that I haven't tried. There is a
seller on Ebay China that sells the small factory stuff and I'm trying
to push him into international orders.

Care to share? Otherwise, it's not a helpful revelation.

If I spoke the language it
might be easier to convince him.

I've thought the same thing in general. Speaking and reading Chinese would
be a real plus in our explorations.

I've got a wild tree cooked beeng and
a wild tree raw log I think are distinct enough from others in
aroma,flavor,leaf not represented as such.

I sense this to be true, although I haven't quite put my finger on the
differences. My experiences are there, but they need to coalesce.

If in fact they're not I'll
pretend they are. I don't see any reason why wild would be different
than cultivated in the same area. It seems to me the end product is
more influenced by processing factors than raw material.

Could have something to do with age of tree, elevation, soil content, leaf
size, who knows. Wild trees in one place, cultivated in another.

I worked in a
canning factory during college summer months and the end result was
graded by the hour for future sales too commercial labels.

Like A+P vs. Food Emporium canned peas. Personally, I don't give a damn --
about the peas, that is.

BTW, hi James. Glad to see you here. I'm enjoying your insights. Are you a
vendor?

Michael

[...]

I agree that big boys are not necessarily the best these days in the pu'er
industry, but small no-name factories? Truth is, they are not necessarily
any better, unless you know your pu'er, or take your chances.

Big boys have the resouce and experience to back them, so in the churns of
their mass products that flood the market every year, there are still some
good finds, they are playing an economic corner of the market, who hasn't in
the history of trade and economy? We as consumer should be the selective
one - the cash is in our hands, right? - and pick out the good ones from
these big boys.

The small unknown players usually lack the resource and experience of the
big boys, so in their productions, there are also a lot of room for trial
and error - so just as for the big boys, we have to be selective in our
purchase and know our pu'er - and by the time they become more 'stable' in
their productions, they would have made a name for themselves and prices
will begin to pick up.

When the former body of CNNP was established in the 1930s, the chinese govt
in appointed several factories in Yunnan as the main producer of Pu'er teas,
while many smaller factories are appointed as supplier of mao cha, the raw
tea. Teas plucked by farmers in the local regions were brought to these
small factories where they were processed and then delivered to the main
factories for the final blending and compressing, and drying. It was a
division of labour borne out of necessity of the time.

When the tea industry was privatized, small factories began to emerge as
players in the market as well - some of them has made names for themselves,
and as such, begin to demand higher pricing - as is now happening to some of
these one time small players. Riding on the pu'er heat, other factories
which formerly do not produce Pu'er also began producing pu'er; there are
also chinese entrepreneurs who, seeing the increasing demand for pu'er,
began to invest in small rural farms and turn them into production
factories, usually with simple equipment - and this is where the trial and
error comes in.

Pu'er, in all my encounter with this tea, is subjective. What Jim has
culled on Taobao and likes, determines his preference in terms of taste of
this tea. I'm sure there are others who scoff at the offerings from Taobao
or eBay, and readily dismiss the products as 'not-the-real-thing' or as
inferior.

My opinion is that if the tea doesn't make you unwell, and you like it
enough to drink it again, it is a good tea for you. The authenticity in
year of production, the price that 'aged' cake fetches etc, that's for a
different class of collectors. My thumb of rule is that as long as a vendor
prices a cake at a reasonable price, I'm fine with it, be it real or
not-the-real-thing (damn, I'm doing the Harry Potter
"he-who-must-not-be-named"!). But if a vendor sells a recent cake and calls
it "very aged" for a high price, then I think it's dishonesty.

Whether we are to buy from big boys or unknown factories, the important
point is that we have to have some background on pu'er knowledge, and trust
our own tastes - someone can wax lyrical on a cake, but if you don't like
it, you don't like it. Period. Steering away from Menghai and XG products
would be one's loss in tasting some of the better or even great pu'ers, and
scoffing at small unknown factories may leave one with regret later.

We just have to carrry a spirit of adventure in us when we venture into the
world of pu'er and tea!

:")

Danny




"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...

[...]
Jim and James,

[Jim]
I've scratched off Menghai and
Xiaguan from any future orders because I sense they are playing an
economic corner the market game. I'm just ordering stuff from
"no-name" factories because maybe they're small players with something
better than the big guys and nothing to prove.

Jim, I haven't crossed them off my list because I've had some damned good
Pu'erh from them, but I agree totally with your general thesis that bigger
is not necessarily better, and that the real finds are going to be had
from
the little guys. Further, we could talk about production closer to the
source. I'm somewhat bothered by the idea that those little farmers send
their leaves to the big factories. I'll bet among the no-namers are local
farmers who do the whole production number right there under the trees and
the stars. Those are the guys I want to find.

Maybe bigger is better in China.

That seems to be the style nowadays.

I cull
TaoBao and Ebay China looking for new factory names and wrappers. Not
that I'll ever get a chance to order something but I like to know it is
there and what it cost. 6FTM has a series out now of 6 special
regional cakes. I've got a couple that I haven't tried. There is a
seller on Ebay China that sells the small factory stuff and I'm trying
to push him into international orders.

Care to share? Otherwise, it's not a helpful revelation.

If I spoke the language it
might be easier to convince him.

I've thought the same thing in general. Speaking and reading Chinese would
be a real plus in our explorations.

I've got a wild tree cooked beeng and
a wild tree raw log I think are distinct enough from others in
aroma,flavor,leaf not represented as such.

I sense this to be true, although I haven't quite put my finger on the
differences. My experiences are there, but they need to coalesce.

If in fact they're not I'll
pretend they are. I don't see any reason why wild would be different
than cultivated in the same area. It seems to me the end product is
more influenced by processing factors than raw material.

Could have something to do with age of tree, elevation, soil content, leaf
size, who knows. Wild trees in one place, cultivated in another.

I worked in a
canning factory during college summer months and the end result was
graded by the hour for future sales too commercial labels.

Like A+P vs. Food Emporium canned peas. Personally, I don't give a damn --
about the peas, that is.

BTW, hi James. Glad to see you here. I'm enjoying your insights. Are you a
vendor?

Michael

I just ordered a kilo of Menghai Dayi tuochas. Now I can scratch them
off my list. If I ever can order from TaoBao or Ebay China I'll let
the group know. 6FTM has a series from 2003,2004,2005. 2003 looks
like hieroglyphs, 2004 the colored circle borders, 2005 the date with
their simple icon motif. The prices on the 2003 are already through
the roof with 2004 not far behind and 2005 catching up. You can find
2004 and 2005 on Ebay. I've got an uncooked wild tree and cooked from
2004 which I haven't tried. The post from Danny indicates 6FTM is
possible single plantation. Hopefully for their series. The only peas
I'll eat are Green Giant LeSueur Early June Peas.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
[Jim]
I've scratched off Menghai and
Xiaguan from any future orders because I sense they are playing an
economic corner the market game.
Jim, I haven't crossed them off my list because I've had some damned good
Pu'erh from them.

I cull
TaoBao and Ebay China looking for new factory names and wrappers. Not
that I'll ever get a chance to order something but I like to know it is
there and what it cost. 6FTM has a series out now of 6 special
regional cakes. I've got a couple that I haven't tried. There is a
seller on Ebay China that sells the small factory stuff and I'm trying
to push him into international orders.

Care to share? Otherwise, it's not a helpful revelation.

I worked in a
canning factory during college summer months and the end result was
graded by the hour for future sales too commercial labels.

Like A+P vs. Food Emporium canned peas. Personally, I don't give a damn --
about the peas, that is.

[...]
"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I just ordered a kilo of Menghai Dayi tuochas. Now I can scratch them
off my list.

....Forever?


If I ever can order from TaoBao or Ebay China I'll let
the group know. 6FTM has a series from 2003,2004,2005. 2003 looks
like hieroglyphs, 2004 the colored circle borders, 2005 the date with
their simple icon motif. The prices on the 2003 are already through
the roof with 2004 not far behind and 2005 catching up. You can find
2004 and 2005 on Ebay. I've got an uncooked wild tree and cooked from
2004 which I haven't tried. The post from Danny indicates 6FTM is
possible single plantation. Hopefully for their series. The only peas
I'll eat are Green Giant LeSueur Early June Peas.

....I believe I wrote: Generally...
The single plantation products from 6FTM would be these (personally, I have
my reservations, having tasted them all)
http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product.asp?pro_type=36

the rest are mostly blends...

Danny

It's only forever until the next time I place an order after I exhaust
the limited no-name factories available in the Western market which
might be the next order. Your link is the 2005 crop. This is the
first link for the 2004 crop
http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product.asp?pro_type=37. I didn't see
anything for the 2003 crop which is one of the strangest wrappers I've
ever seen. My favorite Xiaguan product is the "Precious Flame 250g
Tibetan Mushrooms". I'm still working on the first stem I broke off.
The best of both worlds.

Jim

samarkand wrote:
[...]
"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
ups.com...
I just ordered a kilo of Menghai Dayi tuochas. Now I can scratch them
off my list.

...Forever?

6FTM has a series from 2003,2004,2005. 2003 looks
like hieroglyphs, 2004 the colored circle borders, 2005 the date with
their simple icon motif. The prices on the 2003 are already through
the roof with 2004 not far behind and 2005 catching up. You can find
2004 and 2005 on Ebay.

...I believe I wrote: Generally...
The single plantation products from 6FTM would be these (personally, I have
my reservations, having tasted them all)
http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product.asp?pro_type=36

the rest are mostly blends...

Danny

[...]
"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
ups.com...
It's only forever until the next time I place an order after I exhaust
the limited no-name factories available in the Western market which
might be the next order.

Ahh...so it's not forever then, and you might return to the big boys...good
to know that you are abandoning them forever...

Your link is the 2005 crop. This is the
first link for the 2004 crop
http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product.asp?pro_type=37.

You are mistaken, Jim. The link I provided is the 2004 production, not
2005 - where did you get this wrong info that they are 2005? The cakes in
this link actually have been in production since 2002, the first batch was a
consignment to a vendor in Taiwan called Da You. It has steadily been in
production since then.

The link you provide above are also from the 2004 production. There are 12
cakes in this series: 6 cooked, 6 uncooked, each mirroring the other. The
cooked version has orangy brown designs framing the edge, the uncooked has
bronzy ones.
They are blended, with leaves collected from different tea regions in
Yunnan: Xishuangbanna for the uncooked, Menghai for the cooked.
This series is not a study in leaves from single plantations, but teas from
different grades. I hope you did not buy them in the hope that they are
single plantation.

I didn't see
anything for the 2003 crop which is one of the strangest wrappers I've
ever seen. My favorite Xiaguan product is the "Precious Flame 250g
Tibetan Mushrooms". I'm still working on the first stem I broke off.
The best of both worlds.

This is specifically 2002:
http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product_view.asp?id=196

And this is 2003 : http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product_view.asp?id=199

most of the Precious Flame (Baoyan) tuochas from XG in the market are from
2002 and after. they are divided into cooked and uncooked, with a 'classic'
edition on the uncooked that comes in a box.

Danny

Thanks for the warm welcome! No I'm not a vendor but I sense a real
inhospitality towards vendors here. I myself would actually welcome the
opportunity to be kept informed of the latest products and offerings.
No one can force you to buy anything and the final decision is and will
always be yours. Anyway Jim to be able to taste over a hundred
different types of puerh isn't a lot in my estimation for a crazed
fan who has often thrown logic out the window in his search to learn
more about this unique tea. I would like to emphasize the word taste
and not buy, because a lot of tea I've tasted I didn't buy. A few
trips to China and stopping by a few of the many tea shops available
can really hike up one's tally.

James

I'm sure the Fed will appreciate me not spending any more dollars on
Menghai to reduce the 240 billion dollar trade deficit.

The new series has the year 2005 printed on the wrapper:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...FTM_setof6.jpg
which I thought was a new requirement besides relying on wrapper
blemishes in the future to determine dates.

There is a year printed on the wrappers of your links but not mentioned
in the description:
http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product.asp?pro_type=36
but I can't make anything out. That would be the first example of a
voluntary date I've seen that wasn't commemorative in nature. I
understand the year on a wrapper doesn't necessarily reflect the year
the material was produced. You see that with the XG Millenia tuocha
where the 2003/2004 crane emblem was used with material produced in Jan
2000.

I just checked my two 2004 6FTM and you are correct on the border
edging reflecting cooked or uncooked because I have one of each. I
haven't run across anyone guaranteeing a single plantation. The
auction for the 2003 "6FTM" series with the strange wrappers rolled off
TaoBao since yesterday but they appear ever so often. Maybe it was
another tea processing factory in this general area but I think I would
have noticed something like that.

My Baoyan has a date printed by hand 2004.12.1 which I think is
yyyy.dd.m or maybe almost a year later. It is a blend of cook and
uncooked. The three 250g mushroom tuochas came in a bag where the 750g
weight was preprinted.

Jim

samarkand wrote:
[...]
"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
ups.com...
It's only forever until the next time I place an order after I exhaust
the limited no-name factories available in the Western market which
might be the next order.

Ahh...so it's not forever then, and you might return to the big boys...good
to know that you are abandoning them forever...

Your link is the 2005 crop. This is the
first link for the 2004 crop
http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product.asp?pro_type=37.

You are mistaken, Jim. The link I provided is the 2004 production, not
2005 - where did you get this wrong info that they are 2005? The cakes in
this link actually have been in production since 2002, the first batch was a
consignment to a vendor in Taiwan called Da You. It has steadily been in
production since then.

The link you provide above are also from the 2004 production. There are 12
cakes in this series: 6 cooked, 6 uncooked, each mirroring the other. The
cooked version has orangy brown designs framing the edge, the uncooked has
bronzy ones.
They are blended, with leaves collected from different tea regions in
Yunnan: Xishuangbanna for the uncooked, Menghai for the cooked.
This series is not a study in leaves from single plantations, but teas from
different grades. I hope you did not buy them in the hope that they are
single plantation.

I didn't see
anything for the 2003 crop which is one of the strangest wrappers I've
ever seen. My favorite Xiaguan product is the "Precious Flame 250g
Tibetan Mushrooms". I'm still working on the first stem I broke off.
The best of both worlds.

This is specifically 2002:
http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product_view.asp?id=196

And this is 2003 : http://www.liudachashan.com/new/product_view.asp?id=199

most of the Precious Flame (Baoyan) tuochas from XG in the market are from
2002 and after. they are divided into cooked and uncooked, with a 'classic'
edition on the uncooked that comes in a box.

Danny

It is still an impressive pu vitae even for a lowai in China. On this
side of the Pacific all we can do is order by the kilo from China to
help pay for the shipping cost and hope for the best to supplement
anything found in Chinatown. So far I haven't found an uncooked I
don't like. I've only found one cooked I really like and one I almost
like. The others I can only drink with a meal. I'm not sure of the
discrepancy. Stick around you'll become informed and educated on where
to spend your money by special interest.

Jim

wrote:
Thanks for the warm welcome! No I'm not a vendor but I sense a real
inhospitality towards vendors here. I myself would actually welcome the
opportunity to be kept informed of the latest products and offerings.
No one can force you to buy anything and the final decision is and will
always be yours. Anyway Jim to be able to taste over a hundred
different types of puerh isn't a lot in my estimation for a crazed
fan who has often thrown logic out the window in his search to learn
more about this unique tea. I would like to emphasize the word taste
and not buy, because a lot of tea I've tasted I didn't buy. A few
trips to China and stopping by a few of the many tea shops available
can really hike up one's tally.

James