I have a question to the high esteemed puerh experts on this group. Some
times ago I have bought an uncooked beengcha:

http://www.mandjs.com/ProductDetail....h%20Teas&ID=51

The vendor's site says that it is a wild tree puerh from Menghai, which he
has also confirmed to me in a mail.

Now I happened to ask an other authority about this cake, and he said that
there were some strange things about it: the price wich was suspiciously
low, and the wrapper which was used by the Menghai factory in 1999, but not
in 2003 when this cake was made. He also asked a supplier who is a first
buyer from the Menghai factory, but he did not see any like this, too.

I love this puerh and that is clearly most important thing. Nevertheless, it
puzzles me whether it is a real or a fake Menghai cake, so if anybody knows
more about this tea, or could direct me toward someone who might have a
definitive answer, I would much appreciate it.

Thanks,
Gyorgy

What struck me as odd was the high price for a recent crop even from
Menghai if it didn't include shipping. From the prices on TaoBao I
wouldn't pay more than $10 for any two year old crop from any factory.
I have a photo of this from TaoBao which is identified as the same 2003
Yi Wu Zheng Shan for $6. The factory wasn't mentioned. TaoBao sellers
seem to be consistent to mention Menghai if the factory. I have one
more picture with the wild tree, no factory, no price identified as
"2004 cloth court attendant". The first couple of characters are
different across the top. From convention "cloth court attendant"
would be the name of the factory but I can't be sure in this case as I
never saved the characters to indicate as such. That's all I know.

Jim

Gyorgy Sajo wrote:
I have a question to the high esteemed puerh experts on this group. Some
times ago I have bought an uncooked beengcha:

http://www.mandjs.com/ProductDetail....h%20Teas&ID=51

The vendor's site says that it is a wild tree puerh from Menghai, which he
has also confirmed to me in a mail.

Now I happened to ask an other authority about this cake, and he said that
there were some strange things about it: the price wich was suspiciously
low, and the wrapper which was used by the Menghai factory in 1999, but not
in 2003 when this cake was made. He also asked a supplier who is a first
buyer from the Menghai factory, but he did not see any like this, too.

I love this puerh and that is clearly most important thing. Nevertheless, it
puzzles me whether it is a real or a fake Menghai cake, so if anybody knows
more about this tea, or could direct me toward someone who might have a
definitive answer, I would much appreciate it.

Thanks,
Gyorgy

"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
What struck me as odd was the high price for a recent crop even from
Menghai if it didn't include shipping.
$25.00 for a 2003 cake if it is from the actual factory is not pricey, and
that's following China's and taiwan's market price at the moment. If you
get one that's cheaper from the same year, and same factory, I'd be more
cautious.

From the prices on TaoBao I
wouldn't pay more than $10 for any two year old crop from any factory.
Jim, if that's you are paying, then the tea you are drinking that's over 2
years old for under USD$10 is questionable. Serious. If the market price
determines it to be. say. $20 and you get it on Taobao for less than $10,
and assuming the vendor on Taobao knows what the teas' maket value, I'd like
to thoroughly examine his offers.

I have a photo of this from TaoBao which is identified as the same 2003
Yi Wu Zheng Shan for $6. The factory wasn't mentioned. TaoBao sellers
seem to be consistent to mention Menghai if the factory.
Erh, mistake.
There's Menghai Factory
There's produced in Menghai
There's produced by so-and-so factory in Menghai
Now you know what the teas you get from Taobao can be so cheap sometimes?
They tell us "It's from Menghai" and we are overjoyed, forgetting that
seabass is a fish but not all fishes are seabass... :")

I have one
more picture with the wild tree, no factory, no price identified as
"2004 cloth court attendant". The first couple of characters are
different across the top. From convention "cloth court attendant"
would be the name of the factory but I can't be sure in this case as I
never saved the characters to indicate as such. That's all I know.

Send a link and maybe I can tell you more?

Danny

Hi Gyorgy,

You have stated very clearly "I love this Puerh and that is clearly most
important thing".

Is it that important then that whether the cake is a production from the
Menghai Actual Factory? I feel that it is more important to like the tea
and trust your tastebuds, the truth is a separate issue altogether.

I believe also that when one falls in love with Pu'er, "Definitve Answers"
is an "attitude" one has to take with a pinch of salt, or else believe that
there can sometimes be no definitive answers.

Enough of my rubbish. Care to email me privately who your authority is?
:") Here's my 2 cent worth.

1. Your authority is not correct. This tea, coommonly called "The Big
Green Tree", was commisioned by a Mr Ye tea merchant from Guangzhou, and
accepted by Ms Yuan, the then new manager of Menghai Factory.
The pressed cakes were about 7 shipments, and released into the market by
year end 2000.

2. In 2003, Mr Ye again commissioned Menghai Factory to produce new
shipments of this tea.

3. So actually, your cake may be from 2003. Both wrappers, flyers, and
stickers between 1999 & 2003 productions are similar.

Now the confusions, the uncertainties.

1. Between 2000 & 2003, Menghai Factory produced several cakes with the
same wrapper, and one (in 2002) with the Da Yi label, with the "cherry
blossom" red logo on the front, instead of the tree.

2. Betweem 2000 & now, there are several small factories, especially after
Menghai Factory was no longer state-owned, began producing their Yi Wu
cakes, using the same tree logo. However, the tagline at the bottom printed
the factories, if not the region (Menghai). Those without may probably be
from the Kunming or other factories.

3. The sticker on the cake from M&J is Da Yi. The Da Yi logo sticker would
have a similar wraper, while the Big Green Tree wrapper would have the "8
Zhong" sticker. The pictures on M&J don't gel.

4. Is it wild arbor leaves? No it isn't.

But importantly, I must stress again, is that you enjoy the tea, be it Da Yi
or Big Green Tea.


Danny

Oops, amendments...

Enough of my rubbish. Care to email me privately who your authority is?
:") Here's my 2 cent worth.

1. Your authority is not correct. This tea, coommonly called "The Big
Green Tree", was commisioned by a Mr Ye tea merchant from Guangzhou, and
accepted by Ms Yuan, the then new manager of Menghai Factory.
The pressed cakes were about 7 shipments, and released into the market by
year end 2000.

Sorry, Mr Ye commissioned the production in 1999, the production ended in
2000, the cakes were released that same year. The sticker had an additonal
red oval stamp on the back...



2. In 2003, Mr Ye again commissioned Menghai Factory to produce new
shipments of this tea.

In 2003 when Mr Ye comissioned for the production again, Ms Yuan had left
Menghai Factory and was managing The Six Famous Tea Mountain Co.

I shall turn in for the night now before I turn out more incomplete info...

Danny

Hi Danny,

Thank you for your highly informative post!

Is it that important then that whether the cake is a production from the
Menghai Actual Factory?

Okay, then I reveal my hidden intention: I wished to order some more from
another vendor, who would not take such high shipping fee. As I could not
find a vendor who listed exactly the same cake, I had to send some queries
around, and for that it was crucial to identify the cake. I thought it was a
piece of cake, but it turned out to be a hard nut. :-)

Enough of my rubbish. Care to email me privately who your authority is?

Will do that.

After reading your enlightening post, I have examined the cake more closely,
and I was suprised to detect that both the text of the wrapper and that of
the sticker differs from the one pictured at M&J! And to make things even
more complicated, the weight of the actual cake is 250 g (not 350 g); but I
have been informed about it by the seller before ordering (and the actual
price was only $18).

If you wish, we can take it offline, and I could send you the scanned images
of both the wrapper and the sticker.

Thanks again,
Gyorgy

I liked this tea enough that I bought a stack of it from mandjs. It's
ageing really nicely (and fast), getting warmer and woodier with each
year. As I'm not planning on selling them, I don't care too much if
they're legit, just that they're really good.

I noticed that they don't have that characteristic Menghai taste that
I've found in 7542 cakes of various vintages and their Jia Ji tuo chas.
Looking at the leaf, it does seem to fit the description of a wild tea
(as described by teahub and the teamaster blog).

Cheers,

Cameron

I managed to get a stack for about $120 shipped. Michael Ryan gave me
a buy six get one free deal and I had them sent surface. Check his
ebay store. He has this same cake for $17 last I checked.

Cheers,

Cameron

We have established offline that the cake M&J has online and the cake Gyorgy
bought are not the same cake.

The cake is not from Menghai, so the next question of whether it is from Yi
Wu also becomes questionable.

Production of "wild" tea leaves from Yi Wu at the moment is about 60 tons
per year, inlcuding true wild arbor trees. I'll leave you to figure the
amount of wild arbor leaves going into your cakes.

"Wild Grown Leaves" or "Wild Arbor Leaves" definition 1: leaves from wild
trees; 2: leaves from plantations there were abandoned.

Danny

"Cameron Lewis" wrote in message
oups.com...
I liked this tea enough that I bought a stack of it from mandjs. It's
ageing really nicely (and fast), getting warmer and woodier with each
year. As I'm not planning on selling them, I don't care too much if
they're legit, just that they're really good.

I noticed that they don't have that characteristic Menghai taste that
I've found in 7542 cakes of various vintages and their Jia Ji tuo chas.
Looking at the leaf, it does seem to fit the description of a wild tea
(as described by teahub and the teamaster blog).

Cheers,

Cameron

/15/05

[Danny responding to Gyorky...]

But importantly, I must stress again, is that you enjoy the tea, be it Da Yi
or Big Green Tea.

Yes, well said indeed. Let taste reign (or is that rain?).
Michael

Agreed Menghai can be used loosely. However on TaoBao the two year old
prices for Menghai with the name and logo on the wrapper are still
around $10. I use TaoBao as a benchmark for what is available and what
it should cost. If somebody in the US wants to charge you $25 for
something that cost $10 on TaoBao that is the way the market works.
There is a dealer on Ebay, not previously mentioned here, whose costs
are in line with TaoBao but limited selection. I choose to do business
with them. That is also how the market works. Yeah on this side of
the Pacific you'll pay more but I rather be in the ballpark than
padding around in McCovey Cove waiting for a homerun from BB.

Jim

samarkand wrote:
"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
From the prices on TaoBao I
wouldn't pay more than $10 for any two year old crop from any factory.

Jim, if that's you are paying, then the tea you are drinking that's over 2
years old for under USD$10 is questionable. Serious. If the market price
determines it to be. say. $20 and you get it on Taobao for less than $10,
and assuming the vendor on Taobao knows what the teas' maket value, I'd like
to thoroughly examine his offers.

Erh, mistake.
There's Menghai Factory
There's produced in Menghai
There's produced by so-and-so factory in Menghai
Now you know what the teas you get from Taobao can be so cheap sometimes?
They tell us "It's from Menghai" and we are overjoyed, forgetting that
seabass is a fish but not all fishes are seabass... :")

Danny

samarkand wrote:
We have established offline that the cake M&J has online and the cake Gyorgy
bought are not the same cake.

Danny,

Could you share with us the specifics onhow you determined it wasnt a
Mneghai cake? Enquiring minds want to know....

And... since it isnt Menghai but he clearly likes it how do you go
about figuring out who actually made it in order to go after more.

Mike

no Michael, it;s rein...

haha!

Yeeeeehar! Ride them Cowboy!

Danny


"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
/15/05

[Danny responding to Gyorky...]

But importantly, I must stress again, is that you enjoy the tea, be it Da
Yi
or Big Green Tea.

Yes, well said indeed. Let taste reign (or is that rain?).
Michael

Hi Mike,

I'll email you offline on this?

I don't want to be stoned again...

:")

Danny


"Mike Petro" wrote in message
oups.com...

samarkand wrote:
We have established offline that the cake M&J has online and the cake
Gyorgy
bought are not the same cake.

Danny,

Could you share with us the specifics onhow you determined it wasnt a
Mneghai cake? Enquiring minds want to know....

And... since it isnt Menghai but he clearly likes it how do you go
about figuring out who actually made it in order to go after more.

Mike

Cameron Lewis wrote:

I managed to get a stack for about $120 shipped. Michael Ryan gave me
a buy six get one free deal and I had them sent surface. Check his
ebay store. He has this same cake for $17 last I checked.

Thank you! Yes, I also ordered my cakes from his ebay store, which meant $8
less for each cake and $3 less for the shipping of each one compared to his
other site. It was just easier (shorter) to post the link to his other site.
The images and the descriptions are (almost) the same.

$120 sounds like a good deal. How long was the actual shipping time?

Gyorgy