Cowboy: was the one on the picture cooked? I thought it was sheng.
Foo: These two chars are grade.

Sasha.


"Falky foo" wrote in message
m...
actually let me qualify my previous statement. While the box is the same
for my pu, mine has a crane rather than the tea symbol and has two
characters in green on the left and the right. Otherwise it's the same.



"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Is cooked tuocha supposed to be graded? Usually there is a grading
slip. I still have a 20 year old box. Interesting it has the Zhong
emblem like this one. My recent purchase doesn't. I have a commercial
Liuan basket from HongKong I bought in Chinatown for $6. I have a
basket from a dealer in China which was more expensive. If there is a
difference it isn't worth it. The commercial basket came with the
Zhong emblem. The mainland basket came asis in a box so probably was
lost. The leaf in the commercial box is sort of sticky but not
compressed and the mainland completely loose.

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Yours was also better (look closer and yu will see that this one
lacks the
two characrters on the side that indicate grade).
How is that Liu An? For $16 its a real bargain.

Alex.


"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Let me guess, this is it:


http://www.treasuregreen.com/teas/pu...ver20years.htm
If so, my Chinatown is cheaper than yours.

The next time you might search for the bamboo baskets of
Liuan(Mandarin) or Lukon(Cantonese). They're wrapped by different
brands but look boat shaped and large at 500g. Liuan is called a
puerh
but single fermentation not two like puerh. It is also from Anhui
province and not Yunnan. It is loose in the basket and not
compressed.
In my Chinatown they're $6. Is it black or is it puerh?
http://www.treasuregreen.com/teas/lukon-bamboolukon.htm

Jim

Falky foo wrote:
At my local little Saigon store the other day and picked up a
fist-size
chunk of pu from the "China National Native Produce & Animal
By-Products
Import & Export Corporation, Yunnan Tea Branch" for $1.50.
$1.50!!!

Heretofore all my Yunnan green and white boxes are shu tuocha with the
zhong emblem and no grading. Foo opens up his box and finds a Xiaguan
emblem with grading. I assume it is cooked because of his description
of the taste. My twenty year old box with the original tuocha and
recent purchase have enough blemishes so somebody could make a killing
selling the new for the old. Foo one of the green characters should
match the following grades. The other green character means 'grade'.

First http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7532

Second http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=4e59

Special http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7279

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Cowboy: was the one on the picture cooked? I thought it was sheng.
Foo: These two chars are grade.

Sasha.


"Falky foo" wrote in message
m...
actually let me qualify my previous statement. While the box is
the same
for my pu, mine has a crane rather than the tea symbol and has two
characters in green on the left and the right. Otherwise it's the
same.



"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Is cooked tuocha supposed to be graded? Usually there is a
grading
slip. I still have a 20 year old box. Interesting it has the
Zhong
emblem like this one. My recent purchase doesn't. I have a
commercial
Liuan basket from HongKong I bought in Chinatown for $6. I have a
basket from a dealer in China which was more expensive. If there
is a
difference it isn't worth it. The commercial basket came with the
Zhong emblem. The mainland basket came asis in a box so probably
was
lost. The leaf in the commercial box is sort of sticky but not
compressed and the mainland completely loose.

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Yours was also better (look closer and yu will see that this one
lacks the
two characrters on the side that indicate grade).
How is that Liu An? For $16 its a real bargain.

Alex.


"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Let me guess, this is it:



http://www.treasuregreen.com/teas/pu...ver20years.htm
If so, my Chinatown is cheaper than yours.

The next time you might search for the bamboo baskets of
Liuan(Mandarin) or Lukon(Cantonese). They're wrapped by
different
brands but look boat shaped and large at 500g. Liuan is
called a
puerh
but single fermentation not two like puerh. It is also from
Anhui
province and not Yunnan. It is loose in the basket and not
compressed.
In my Chinatown they're $6. Is it black or is it puerh?
http://www.treasuregreen.com/teas/lukon-bamboolukon.htm

Jim

Falky foo wrote:
At my local little Saigon store the other day and picked up a
fist-size
chunk of pu from the "China National Native Produce & Animal
By-Products
Import & Export Corporation, Yunnan Tea Branch" for $1.50.
$1.50!!!

Just iun case anyone is interested - the 1st is Jia, the second is Yi and
the "Special" is Te.
The firts two are the "heavenly trunks" - 10 "numericals" that with 12
zodiak signs make 60-years cycle.
Cowboy, when you say "zhong" which one you mean - not the "China", "middle"
"center" one, right?
And you id not answer my question about how good is theie Liu An...

Sasha.


"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Heretofore all my Yunnan green and white boxes are shu tuocha with the
zhong emblem and no grading. Foo opens up his box and finds a Xiaguan
emblem with grading. I assume it is cooked because of his description
of the taste. My twenty year old box with the original tuocha and
recent purchase have enough blemishes so somebody could make a killing
selling the new for the old. Foo one of the green characters should
match the following grades. The other green character means 'grade'.

First http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7532

Second http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=4e59

Special http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7279

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Cowboy: was the one on the picture cooked? I thought it was sheng.
Foo: These two chars are grade.

Sasha.

Lest anyone get confused, those green and white boxes are Xia Guan
brand "Export" boxes, they are not used inside of China, and can
contain any number of different tuocha inside, shu or sheng. A friend
of mine recently purchased several boxes at his local Chinatown and
they contained a whole different brand, someone just used the Domestic
XG box and put a cheaper Tuo inside of them. In the last few years Xia
Guan has started imprinting the boxes with production info including
date, production line etc but it doent really mean anything because
there is nothing stopping somebody from shoving a different tuo inside
of one of these boxes, proper package sealing and truth in advertising
has not reached the China mainstream yet. There are also many of the
old boxes still around and they do get recycled with different teas
and wind up back on the Chinatown shelves. Your 20 year old box may
very well contain a 5 year old tuo, how do you know that the tuo is
original? What emblem is embossed into the tuo itself? These changed
over the years as well.

Here are some Xia Guan Factory website links:
Export box
http://www.xgtea.com/pub/g.htm
or
http://www.xgtea.com/pub/showprod.asp?id=275

Domestic China Box (note that the bags are by far the most common
domestic package used in China)
A Grade
http://www.xgtea.com/pub/a.htm
orthe Supreme Grade
http://www.xgtea.com/pub/showprod.asp?id=276

BTW I have not seen a cooked Xia Guan Tuo Cha in a crane wrapper, they
might exist but I have never seen one. Most Xia Guan cooked puers have
the Zhong Cha wrapper. Older Xia Guan greens also had the Zhong Cha
wrapper.

As for blemishes Jim, lets get the story straight, Please dont confuse
the group just because you want to throw a dig at me. There are marks
from different printing productions runs that can often be associated
to specific years and products. Much like the mint marks on coins can
tell you where the coin was minted, or the perforation count on older
stamps. However, without the books which are all in Chinese you will
be hard pressed to decipher these differences. I have several of the
books and they are quite fascinating.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not
be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary




On 23 Apr 2005 06:14:13 -0700, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

Heretofore all my Yunnan green and white boxes are shu tuocha with the
zhong emblem and no grading. Foo opens up his box and finds a Xiaguan
emblem with grading. I assume it is cooked because of his description
of the taste. My twenty year old box with the original tuocha and
recent purchase have enough blemishes so somebody could make a killing
selling the new for the old. Foo one of the green characters should
match the following grades. The other green character means 'grade'.

First http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7532

Second http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=4e59

Special http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7279

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Cowboy: was the one on the picture cooked? I thought it was sheng.
Foo: These two chars are grade.

Sasha.


"Falky foo" wrote in message
m...
actually let me qualify my previous statement. While the box is
the same
for my pu, mine has a crane rather than the tea symbol and has two
characters in green on the left and the right. Otherwise it's the
same.



"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Is cooked tuocha supposed to be graded? Usually there is a
grading
slip. I still have a 20 year old box. Interesting it has the
Zhong
emblem like this one. My recent purchase doesn't. I have a
commercial
Liuan basket from HongKong I bought in Chinatown for $6. I have a
basket from a dealer in China which was more expensive. If there
is a
difference it isn't worth it. The commercial basket came with the
Zhong emblem. The mainland basket came asis in a box so probably
was
lost. The leaf in the commercial box is sort of sticky but not
compressed and the mainland completely loose.

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Yours was also better (look closer and yu will see that this one
lacks the
two characrters on the side that indicate grade).
How is that Liu An? For $16 its a real bargain.

Alex.


"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Let me guess, this is it:



http://www.treasuregreen.com/teas/pu...ver20years.htm
If so, my Chinatown is cheaper than yours.

The next time you might search for the bamboo baskets of
Liuan(Mandarin) or Lukon(Cantonese). They're wrapped by
different
brands but look boat shaped and large at 500g. Liuan is
called a
puerh
but single fermentation not two like puerh. It is also from
Anhui
province and not Yunnan. It is loose in the basket and not
compressed.
In my Chinatown they're $6. Is it black or is it puerh?
http://www.treasuregreen.com/teas/lukon-bamboolukon.htm

Jim

Falky foo wrote:
At my local little Saigon store the other day and picked up a
fist-size
chunk of pu from the "China National Native Produce & Animal
By-Products
Import & Export Corporation, Yunnan Tea Branch" for $1.50.
$1.50!!!

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

I actually think that this chaos with the boxes, etc. is a good thing. Too
many times I tasted a shitty wine from a glorious bottle and had to hear how
wonderful it was and how expensive... Here if you like the tea - its
glorious and if you do not... not. And the urge to collect, to "gather", to
"invest" makes not much sense too. Which is good because this way we drink
more that we collect and offer our friends more tea that we brag about our
stashes.
I also believe that this may keep the prices within reason.

Sasha.


"Mike Petro" wrote in message
...
Lest anyone get confused, those green and white boxes are Xia Guan
brand "Export" boxes, they are not used inside of China, and can
contain any number of different tuocha inside, shu or sheng. A friend
of mine recently purchased several boxes at his local Chinatown and
they contained a whole different brand, someone just used the Domestic
XG box and put a cheaper Tuo inside of them. In the last few years Xia
Guan has started imprinting the boxes with production info including
date, production line etc but it doent really mean anything because
there is nothing stopping somebody from shoving a different tuo inside
of one of these boxes, proper package sealing and truth in advertising
has not reached the China mainstream yet. There are also many of the
old boxes still around and they do get recycled with different teas
and wind up back on the Chinatown shelves. Your 20 year old box may
very well contain a 5 year old tuo, how do you know that the tuo is
original? What emblem is embossed into the tuo itself? These changed
over the years as well.

Here are some Xia Guan Factory website links:
Export box
http://www.xgtea.com/pub/g.htm
or
http://www.xgtea.com/pub/showprod.asp?id=275

Domestic China Box (note that the bags are by far the most common
domestic package used in China)
A Grade
http://www.xgtea.com/pub/a.htm
orthe Supreme Grade
http://www.xgtea.com/pub/showprod.asp?id=276

BTW I have not seen a cooked Xia Guan Tuo Cha in a crane wrapper, they
might exist but I have never seen one. Most Xia Guan cooked puers have
the Zhong Cha wrapper. Older Xia Guan greens also had the Zhong Cha
wrapper.

As for blemishes Jim, lets get the story straight, Please dont confuse
the group just because you want to throw a dig at me. There are marks
from different printing productions runs that can often be associated
to specific years and products. Much like the mint marks on coins can
tell you where the coin was minted, or the perforation count on older
stamps. However, without the books which are all in Chinese you will
be hard pressed to decipher these differences. I have several of the
books and they are quite fascinating.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not
be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary




On 23 Apr 2005 06:14:13 -0700, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

Heretofore all my Yunnan green and white boxes are shu tuocha with the
zhong emblem and no grading. Foo opens up his box and finds a Xiaguan
emblem with grading. I assume it is cooked because of his description
of the taste. My twenty year old box with the original tuocha and
recent purchase have enough blemishes so somebody could make a killing
selling the new for the old. Foo one of the green characters should
match the following grades. The other green character means 'grade'.

First http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7532

Second http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=4e59

Special http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7279

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Cowboy: was the one on the picture cooked? I thought it was sheng.
Foo: These two chars are grade.

Sasha.


"Falky foo" wrote in message
m...
actually let me qualify my previous statement. While the box is
the same
for my pu, mine has a crane rather than the tea symbol and has two
characters in green on the left and the right. Otherwise it's the
same.



"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Is cooked tuocha supposed to be graded? Usually there is a
grading
slip. I still have a 20 year old box. Interesting it has the
Zhong
emblem like this one. My recent purchase doesn't. I have a
commercial
Liuan basket from HongKong I bought in Chinatown for $6. I have a
basket from a dealer in China which was more expensive. If there
is a
difference it isn't worth it. The commercial basket came with the
Zhong emblem. The mainland basket came asis in a box so probably
was
lost. The leaf in the commercial box is sort of sticky but not
compressed and the mainland completely loose.

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Yours was also better (look closer and yu will see that this one
lacks the
two characrters on the side that indicate grade).
How is that Liu An? For $16 its a real bargain.

Alex.


"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Let me guess, this is it:



http://www.treasuregreen.com/teas/pu...ver20years.htm
If so, my Chinatown is cheaper than yours.

The next time you might search for the bamboo baskets of
Liuan(Mandarin) or Lukon(Cantonese). They're wrapped by
different
brands but look boat shaped and large at 500g. Liuan is
called a
puerh
but single fermentation not two like puerh. It is also from
Anhui
province and not Yunnan. It is loose in the basket and not
compressed.
In my Chinatown they're $6. Is it black or is it puerh?
http://www.treasuregreen.com/teas/lukon-bamboolukon.htm

Jim

Falky foo wrote:
At my local little Saigon store the other day and picked up a
fist-size
chunk of pu from the "China National Native Produce & Animal
By-Products
Import & Export Corporation, Yunnan Tea Branch" for $1.50.
$1.50!!!

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be
forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

Sasha, thanks for supplying the pinyin. I noticed that after I did the
post. I still can't use a radical dictionary. I don't know how Li=F9an
is suppose to taste. I'd describe it as a pleasant aromatic shu with
occasional pungent sheng notes. There is an aftertaste on the tongue
with trail to stomach. I've got two baskets one expensive and one
cheap. I think the expensive taste a little better but I'd save my
money and stick with the cheap. I use zhong to describe the emblem of
the green tea character surrounded by the red chain links on the
wrappers. Somebody else used it first. While I'm here just a few more
characters for edification:

j=ED,grade
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D7EA7

sh=FA,ripe,cook
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D719F

sheng,unripe,uncook
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D751F

Jim

PS: I was going to do a Russian greeting but Google only lets me use
use Unicode with a Unicode post.


Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Just iun case anyone is interested - the 1st is Jia, the second is Yi
and
the "Special" is Te.
The firts two are the "heavenly trunks" - 10 "numericals" that with
12
zodiak signs make 60-years cycle.
Cowboy, when you say "zhong" which one you mean - not the "China",
"middle"
"center" one, right?
And you id not answer my question about how good is theie Liu An...


Sasha.


"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Heretofore all my Yunnan green and white boxes are shu tuocha with
the
zhong emblem and no grading. Foo opens up his box and finds a
Xiaguan
emblem with grading. I assume it is cooked because of his
description
of the taste. My twenty year old box with the original tuocha and
recent purchase have enough blemishes so somebody could make a
killing
selling the new for the old. Foo one of the green characters
should
match the following grades. The other green character means
'grade'.

First
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D7532

Second
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D4e59

Special
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D7279

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Cowboy: was the one on the picture cooked? I thought it was sheng.
Foo: These two chars are grade.

Sasha.

It's Christmas in Chinatown if I can find anything in those green/white
boxes because the round box top simply comes off. It's not easy
because the two finger indentations on the lid to grab the box is made
for smaller hands. Does anyone know how I can remove the bottom box
from a pyramid? My old sheng tuocha hasn't been anywhere in twenty
years. I'm not even curious to remove the wrapper to find out more.
If I had known more I would have bought more. I did stock up on the
Xiaguan green box toucha with the Millennia production run date stamped
on the bottom and when SS collapes can cash in by simply switching the
seemingly anachronistic Crane emblem with something newer and selling
the Xiaguan wrapper to museums because the wrapper was used internally
in 2000 but could only appeared in retail after 2003. I use blemish
instead of carbon dating because I don't want to rile the Creationists.
I guess Pu is also unacceptable. I like the posts that appear to be
addressed to a mediator but I do follow the thread tree.

Jim

Space Cowboy wrote:
My old sheng tuocha hasn't been anywhere in twenty
years. I'm not even curious to remove the wrapper to find out more.
If I had known more I would have bought more.

Jim, how do you "KNOW" that the tuocha is original? From your
implications you must be "trusting" what you were told because you
haven't offered any credible evidence. The truth of the matter is that
it is almost impossible to tell unless there is a known printing mark.
The embossed emblems also can be used to place a tuocha within a
certain date range but the ranges are pretty broad. As for wrappers,
Xia Guan had roughly 24 distinctly different tuocha wrappers since
1902. They actually did a commemorative display last year where they
reprinted them all and included one tuocha wrapped in each and enclosed
them in a picture frame type display case. It came complete with a
scroll explaining the details of each different wrapper, I think I have
a jpeg of it somewhere. The display was too rich for my blood, it was
over $380 street price in Kunming, no telling what the US vendors would
have charged for it. It sure did look cool though.

Xia Guan is often imitated and forged, they were one of the first Pu'er
factories to attempt anti-counterfeit measures in their packaging. They
use some special printing tactics in their bags now for example.
Unfortunately they have not tackled their boxes yet. I long for the day
when they start sealing the boxes and shrink wrapping the cakes. They
have a special shrink wrap that is perforated to allow breathing and
aging. The whole Industry needs a make-over regarding packaging.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted,
let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.

20 years ago if the Zhong wrapper was a con then I was hoodwinked for a
$1.49. Back then I bought another one and consumed but understood it
to be medicinal so I kept one as a curiosity. I remember the taste
similar to the Zhong shu I just bought recently for a $1.59 from the
very same store and almost very same shelf. So if the mystery tuocha
is black then it has reached the 10 year milestone twice. If it is
green then I can retire. The old box is green and yellow and the new
green and white plus other blem... but the wrappers look identical. I
was glad to see similar claims for lower bp,cholesterol,weight and
improved digestion for the green Xiaguan. But if tea keeps me alive
another day to enjoy another cup then it didn't cost me anything. I
don't use the B word derisively. I am also a genre collector where
blemish is part of the nomenclature and it came to mind.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
Space Cowboy wrote:
My old sheng tuocha hasn't been anywhere in twenty
years. I'm not even curious to remove the wrapper to find out
more.
If I had known more I would have bought more.

Jim, how do you "KNOW" that the tuocha is original? From your
implications you must be "trusting" what you were told because you
haven't offered any credible evidence. The truth of the matter is
that
it is almost impossible to tell unless there is a known printing
mark.
The embossed emblems also can be used to place a tuocha within a
certain date range but the ranges are pretty broad.

Thanks.

Sheng is used to describe uncooked in the sense that it is raw. Shen means
to be born, raw, new, original.
Ther green tea character (two crosses or one line with two vertical notches
on the top, roof below it and a large cross with two tails (tree) below the
roof is CHA (tea), not zhong. See below.

http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...&useutf8=false

Sasha.

"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sasha, thanks for supplying the pinyin. I noticed that after I did the
post. I still can't use a radical dictionary. I don't know how Liùan
is suppose to taste. I'd describe it as a pleasant aromatic shu with
occasional pungent sheng notes. There is an aftertaste on the tongue
with trail to stomach. I've got two baskets one expensive and one
cheap. I think the expensive taste a little better but I'd save my
money and stick with the cheap. I use zhong to describe the emblem of
the green tea character surrounded by the red chain links on the
wrappers. Somebody else used it first. While I'm here just a few more
characters for edification:

jí,grade
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7EA7

shú,ripe,cook
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=719F

sheng,unripe,uncook
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=751F

Jim

PS: I was going to do a Russian greeting but Google only lets me use
use Unicode with a Unicode post.


Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Just iun case anyone is interested - the 1st is Jia, the second is Yi
and
the "Special" is Te.
The firts two are the "heavenly trunks" - 10 "numericals" that with
12
zodiak signs make 60-years cycle.
Cowboy, when you say "zhong" which one you mean - not the "China",
"middle"
"center" one, right?
And you id not answer my question about how good is theie Liu An...


Sasha.


"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Heretofore all my Yunnan green and white boxes are shu tuocha with
the
zhong emblem and no grading. Foo opens up his box and finds a
Xiaguan
emblem with grading. I assume it is cooked because of his
description
of the taste. My twenty year old box with the original tuocha and
recent purchase have enough blemishes so somebody could make a
killing
selling the new for the old. Foo one of the green characters
should
match the following grades. The other green character means
'grade'.

First
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7532

Second
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=4e59

Special
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...codepoint=7279

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Cowboy: was the one on the picture cooked? I thought it was sheng.
Foo: These two chars are grade.

Sasha.

And the C-14 dating won't help even if they would make it sensitive enough
to "feel" 10-20 years because the bacterial activity would wipe it clean. I
still believe that its a good thing, though. It makes us to judge the
quality of the tea buy the quality alone, not by wrappers or certificates.
When you take a beautiful lady into your arms and immerse yourself in her
passion and femininity, in that moment of love, desire and celestial
pleasure are you really that interested in the date on her birth
certificate?

Sasha.



"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
ups.com...
20 years ago if the Zhong wrapper was a con then I was hoodwinked for a
$1.49. Back then I bought another one and consumed but understood it
to be medicinal so I kept one as a curiosity. I remember the taste
similar to the Zhong shu I just bought recently for a $1.59 from the
very same store and almost very same shelf. So if the mystery tuocha
is black then it has reached the 10 year milestone twice. If it is
green then I can retire. The old box is green and yellow and the new
green and white plus other blem... but the wrappers look identical. I
was glad to see similar claims for lower bp,cholesterol,weight and
improved digestion for the green Xiaguan. But if tea keeps me alive
another day to enjoy another cup then it didn't cost me anything. I
don't use the B word derisively. I am also a genre collector where
blemish is part of the nomenclature and it came to mind.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
Space Cowboy wrote:
My old sheng tuocha hasn't been anywhere in twenty
years. I'm not even curious to remove the wrapper to find out
more.
If I had known more I would have bought more.

Jim, how do you "KNOW" that the tuocha is original? From your
implications you must be "trusting" what you were told because you
haven't offered any credible evidence. The truth of the matter is
that
it is almost impossible to tell unless there is a known printing
mark.
The embossed emblems also can be used to place a tuocha within a
certain date range but the ranges are pretty broad.

Ahhh, I stand corrected, aging it yourself is the best possible proof
that exists. If it is Sheng then it is quite valuable, but you may want
to wrap it in plastic to stop the aging. This is normally done with
Bingcha when it reaches 30-40 years, however tuocha ages faster than
bingcha. When pu'er reaches a certain age it starts to deteriorate and
loose it's aromatic qualities and thus loose value. It was reported
that some 100 year old Golden Melon was virtually tasteless! If it is
Shu, which from your description sounds probable, then it maxed out its
value many years ago.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted,
let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary

Zhong in this case means "center" reffering to the "Cha" character as
part of the logo itself. "Zhong Cha"is the what this particluar Logo is
commonly called throughout the industry. I have seen countless
references to this exact term when talking about this logo. The Logo
was used by all of the Government owned factories prior to the Cultural
Revolution. Since then it has been sporadicly used by many of the now
privatized factories. It has recently been reclaimed by the single CNNP
factory.

See http://www.jingteashop.com/files/pu-...factories.html for a
good intro to logos.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted,
let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary

I understand Zhong in the emblem context to mean both the tea character
and the surrounding zhong characters. They're found together on the
wrappers. No dictionary I have shows uncooked for She1ng. I include
it for Puerh context. I think it curious it gets translated as Fresh
by Google and Babelfish on the Puer sites which is included on the
Zhongwen site but none of my dictionaries.

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Thanks.

Sheng is used to describe uncooked in the sense that it is raw. Shen
means
to be born, raw, new, original.
Ther green tea character (two crosses or one line with two vertical
notches
on the top, roof below it and a large cross with two tails (tree)
below the
roof is CHA (tea), not zhong. See below.


http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...36&useutf8=3D=
false

Sasha.

"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Sasha, thanks for supplying the pinyin. I noticed that after I did
the
post. I still can't use a radical dictionary. I don't know how
Li=F9an
is suppose to taste. I'd describe it as a pleasant aromatic shu with
occasional pungent sheng notes. There is an aftertaste on the tongue
with trail to stomach. I've got two baskets one expensive and one
cheap. I think the expensive taste a little better but I'd save my
money and stick with the cheap. I use zhong to describe the emblem
of
the green tea character surrounded by the red chain links on the
wrappers. Somebody else used it first. While I'm here just a few
more
characters for edification:

j=ED,grade
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D7EA7

sh=FA,ripe,cook
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D719F

sheng,unripe,uncook
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D751F

Jim

PS: I was going to do a Russian greeting but Google only lets me use
use Unicode with a Unicode post.


Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Just iun case anyone is interested - the 1st is Jia, the second is
Yi
and
the "Special" is Te.
The firts two are the "heavenly trunks" - 10 "numericals" that with
12
zodiak signs make 60-years cycle.
Cowboy, when you say "zhong" which one you mean - not the "China",
"middle"
"center" one, right?
And you id not answer my question about how good is theie Liu An...


Sasha.


"Space Cowboy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Heretofore all my Yunnan green and white boxes are shu tuocha
with
the
zhong emblem and no grading. Foo opens up his box and finds a
Xiaguan
emblem with grading. I assume it is cooked because of his
description
of the taste. My twenty year old box with the original tuocha
and
recent purchase have enough blemishes so somebody could make a
killing
selling the new for the old. Foo one of the green characters
should
match the following grades. The other green character means
'grade'.

First
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D7532

Second
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D4e59

Special
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUn...depoint=3D7279

Jim

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Cowboy: was the one on the picture cooked? I thought it was
sheng.
Foo: These two chars are grade.

Sasha.

It was reported
that some 100 year old Golden Melon was virtually tasteless! If it is
Shu, which from your description sounds probable, then it maxed out its
value many years ago.

Some Cognacs that are over a hundred years old are virtually tasteless
too. Mostly alcohol.

What is the optimal age?