In article , Michael Plant wrote:
My experiences with Ten Ren are nowadays invariably disappointing. In my
city they are like used car salesmen who can't speak English. Nothing to
recommend them. Pass them by.

I can, unfortunately, second this the NY locations I've been to. But,
like Pilo, I had uniformly excellent service (including tasting) at
the shop in SF.


N.

In article , Michael Plant wrote:
My experiences with Ten Ren are nowadays invariably disappointing. In my
city they are like used car salesmen who can't speak English. Nothing to
recommend them. Pass them by.

I can, unfortunately, second this the NY locations I've been to. But,
like Pilo, I had uniformly excellent service (including tasting) at
the shop in SF.


N.

So why is exposing tea to the elements and possible contamination by
repeated handling any fresher than the tea from my local tea shoppe
where such environmental risk is probably prohibited by the health
department anyway because all buffets in my state require a sneeze
guard. In my local tea shoppe you can sample any tea you want for
buck/oz. The caveat the sampler comes in separate trays of 24 each per
oxidation category. If push comes to shove you can sample literally
anything for $2.50/cup to go and $3.75/pot at a table. One of my
resolutions this year is too 'put on the airs' and finally go to a tea
tasting and hope someone's idea of gongfu service doesn't give me food
poisoning because they didn't use boiling water after repeated scooping
of the tea with their hands too visually inspect and smell the tea.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:
On 3 Jan 2005 08:36:31 -0800, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

I wouldn't expect the culture of selling tea in China to be the same
elsewhere. I don't want to buy any loose tea where somebody's nose
has
been.

Yes, but since the shop is so popular and abundant all over China, I
thought they would at least keep some of the customs and courtesy. I
don't mind someone's nose being in the tea that much because the
first
washing is supposed to take care of any germs or whatnot that are
left
on the leaves. Over there, they don't care if you stick your hand in
the jar and feel the leaves; and most of the shopkeepers go through
new shipments by hand and pick out stems. I guess the first washing
is more practicable instead of it being a tradition in China.



In my local tea shoppe there are smelling samples. We've all
been disappointed in some tea we bought. I've had teas that smell
great but taste lousy.

One of the best bits of advice I got about tea was from a rather
pragmatic shopkeeper in a tea market where he bluntly asserted in the
local dialect, "You won't learn shit about the tea until you drink
it." Consequently, he's a good friend of mine now.
....tsunamied...

So why is exposing tea to the elements and possible contamination by
repeated handling any fresher than the tea from my local tea shoppe
where such environmental risk is probably prohibited by the health
department anyway because all buffets in my state require a sneeze
guard. In my local tea shoppe you can sample any tea you want for
buck/oz. The caveat the sampler comes in separate trays of 24 each per
oxidation category. If push comes to shove you can sample literally
anything for $2.50/cup to go and $3.75/pot at a table. One of my
resolutions this year is too 'put on the airs' and finally go to a tea
tasting and hope someone's idea of gongfu service doesn't give me food
poisoning because they didn't use boiling water after repeated scooping
of the tea with their hands too visually inspect and smell the tea.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:
On 3 Jan 2005 08:36:31 -0800, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

I wouldn't expect the culture of selling tea in China to be the same
elsewhere. I don't want to buy any loose tea where somebody's nose
has
been.

Yes, but since the shop is so popular and abundant all over China, I
thought they would at least keep some of the customs and courtesy. I
don't mind someone's nose being in the tea that much because the
first
washing is supposed to take care of any germs or whatnot that are
left
on the leaves. Over there, they don't care if you stick your hand in
the jar and feel the leaves; and most of the shopkeepers go through
new shipments by hand and pick out stems. I guess the first washing
is more practicable instead of it being a tradition in China.



In my local tea shoppe there are smelling samples. We've all
been disappointed in some tea we bought. I've had teas that smell
great but taste lousy.

One of the best bits of advice I got about tea was from a rather
pragmatic shopkeeper in a tea market where he bluntly asserted in the
local dialect, "You won't learn shit about the tea until you drink
it." Consequently, he's a good friend of mine now.
....tsunamied...

On 4 Jan 2005 06:24:40 -0800, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

So why is exposing tea to the elements and possible contamination by
repeated handling any fresher than the tea from my local tea shoppe
where such environmental risk is probably prohibited by the health
department anyway because all buffets in my state require a sneeze
guard. In my local tea shoppe you can sample any tea you want for
buck/oz. The caveat the sampler comes in separate trays of 24 each per
oxidation category. If push comes to shove you can sample literally
anything for $2.50/cup to go and $3.75/pot at a table. One of my
resolutions this year is too 'put on the airs' and finally go to a tea
tasting and hope someone's idea of gongfu service doesn't give me food
poisoning because they didn't use boiling water after repeated scooping
of the tea with their hands too visually inspect and smell the tea.

I think it would risk enviormental contamination by putting it in
small vacuum bags and shipping it all over the world, possibly in
transit for weeks, and it being poorly handled more than someone
putting their hands on it or smelling it. Many companies don't use
scoops solely for bagging, I'm fairly sure, and they do have to go
through it by hand to pick out stems and increase the value of the tea
(esp wulong and tie guan yin). Hence the recommendation to rinse the
leaves with a brewing before you drink. I mean, unless the tea comes
in teabags, you really have no idea what the leaves went through or
really how fresh they are other than by tasting and having experience
with the loose leaves of that type; even that varies. I'm not sure
you can say that you're leaves are cleaner than other people's leaves
just because they take special care in that shop; where did the leaves
come from? You're trying to impose western standards on Chinese tea
shop behavior. I mean, the real expensive teas aren't handled, and
there are usually sample packs that they use to let you try the tea
with that you can handle. I don't think anybody would be dumb enough
to randomly sneeze in a jar or container of tea while smelling it or
even go to a teashop while sick out of courtesy. Another unspoken
rule of sorts.

Most teashop people don't care about oxidation levels and such things
unless they are the ones preparing the tea for sale. Again don't try
to force western standards on traditional Chinese tea room behavior.
Cleanliness over there is viewed a little differently.


Jim


...tsunamied...

Not in China.


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

On 4 Jan 2005 06:24:40 -0800, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

So why is exposing tea to the elements and possible contamination by
repeated handling any fresher than the tea from my local tea shoppe
where such environmental risk is probably prohibited by the health
department anyway because all buffets in my state require a sneeze
guard. In my local tea shoppe you can sample any tea you want for
buck/oz. The caveat the sampler comes in separate trays of 24 each per
oxidation category. If push comes to shove you can sample literally
anything for $2.50/cup to go and $3.75/pot at a table. One of my
resolutions this year is too 'put on the airs' and finally go to a tea
tasting and hope someone's idea of gongfu service doesn't give me food
poisoning because they didn't use boiling water after repeated scooping
of the tea with their hands too visually inspect and smell the tea.

I think it would risk enviormental contamination by putting it in
small vacuum bags and shipping it all over the world, possibly in
transit for weeks, and it being poorly handled more than someone
putting their hands on it or smelling it. Many companies don't use
scoops solely for bagging, I'm fairly sure, and they do have to go
through it by hand to pick out stems and increase the value of the tea
(esp wulong and tie guan yin). Hence the recommendation to rinse the
leaves with a brewing before you drink. I mean, unless the tea comes
in teabags, you really have no idea what the leaves went through or
really how fresh they are other than by tasting and having experience
with the loose leaves of that type; even that varies. I'm not sure
you can say that you're leaves are cleaner than other people's leaves
just because they take special care in that shop; where did the leaves
come from? You're trying to impose western standards on Chinese tea
shop behavior. I mean, the real expensive teas aren't handled, and
there are usually sample packs that they use to let you try the tea
with that you can handle. I don't think anybody would be dumb enough
to randomly sneeze in a jar or container of tea while smelling it or
even go to a teashop while sick out of courtesy. Another unspoken
rule of sorts.

Most teashop people don't care about oxidation levels and such things
unless they are the ones preparing the tea for sale. Again don't try
to force western standards on traditional Chinese tea room behavior.
Cleanliness over there is viewed a little differently.


Jim


...tsunamied...

Not in China.


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

Sure.

Sasha.

"Mydnight" wrote in message
...
Well, I'm back. Sorry about basically disappearing for the past 3
weeks or so, but my trip to India kept me from you guys. The idea of
doing mail order tea is still on when I get back to China Feb 5, so
keep me posted. Also, Sasha, sorry about not getting back with you
about the wulong I have. I'm back now, if you're still interested.

Sure.

Sasha.

"Mydnight" wrote in message
...
Well, I'm back. Sorry about basically disappearing for the past 3
weeks or so, but my trip to India kept me from you guys. The idea of
doing mail order tea is still on when I get back to China Feb 5, so
keep me posted. Also, Sasha, sorry about not getting back with you
about the wulong I have. I'm back now, if you're still interested.

I think it is safe to assume the tea on the shelf at my local tea
shoppe was handled x times before auction. The same tea on the shelf
in China the same amount of x times. I'm assuming after auction the
tea was bagged by mechanization for the Western market. If your case
probably more handling by middlemen since no auction. In both cases
the pipeline for handling evens out. So the only real delta the number
of potential customers who sniff, handle, taste the loose tea in a
local market. I assume that is anyone and everyone. You're the one
complaining why a TenRen store in Toronto isn't like the one you visit
in China. In my local tea shoppe such behavior also is a no-no. That
is the way it is. I suggested Western attitudes about inspecting the
merchandise is different. The closest you'll come to handling tea at
my local tea shoppe is buy a sample pack. If you want to buy one
sample black you're forced to buy 23 other blacks the stores also
sells. You can't draw any conclusions with only one sample. I'll
usually get one sample thrown in with a purchase if it is new stock as
a perk because I'm a regular. I suggest just buy a cup to go and say
you'll infuse the leaf at home. I sometimes do that for the new stuff
and can't wait for my complimentary sample. The real test is the way
it taste at home and not in the shoppe. Since tea is an agricultural
product I always boil water. That kills what is in the water and
hopefully what is in the tea. I don't want to see some piece of a
callus even if boiled. Also I don't want to find out Bai Hao is flakes
of dandruff. I've been sick in my share of countries eating local
cuisine. It goes with the territory.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:
On 4 Jan 2005 06:24:40 -0800, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

So why is exposing tea to the elements and possible contamination by
repeated handling any fresher than the tea from my local tea shoppe
where such environmental risk is probably prohibited by the health
department anyway because all buffets in my state require a sneeze
guard. In my local tea shoppe you can sample any tea you want for
buck/oz. The caveat the sampler comes in separate trays of 24 each
per
oxidation category. If push comes to shove you can sample literally
anything for $2.50/cup to go and $3.75/pot at a table. One of my
resolutions this year is too 'put on the airs' and finally go to a
tea
tasting and hope someone's idea of gongfu service doesn't give me
food
poisoning because they didn't use boiling water after repeated
scooping
of the tea with their hands too visually inspect and smell the tea.

I think it would risk enviormental contamination by putting it in
small vacuum bags and shipping it all over the world, possibly in
transit for weeks, and it being poorly handled more than someone
putting their hands on it or smelling it. Many companies don't use
scoops solely for bagging, I'm fairly sure, and they do have to go
through it by hand to pick out stems and increase the value of the
tea
(esp wulong and tie guan yin). Hence the recommendation to rinse the
leaves with a brewing before you drink. I mean, unless the tea comes
in teabags, you really have no idea what the leaves went through or
really how fresh they are other than by tasting and having experience
with the loose leaves of that type; even that varies. I'm not sure
you can say that you're leaves are cleaner than other people's leaves
just because they take special care in that shop; where did the
leaves
come from? You're trying to impose western standards on Chinese tea
shop behavior. I mean, the real expensive teas aren't handled, and
there are usually sample packs that they use to let you try the tea
with that you can handle. I don't think anybody would be dumb enough
to randomly sneeze in a jar or container of tea while smelling it or
even go to a teashop while sick out of courtesy. Another unspoken
rule of sorts.

Most teashop people don't care about oxidation levels and such things
unless they are the ones preparing the tea for sale. Again don't try
to force western standards on traditional Chinese tea room behavior.
Cleanliness over there is viewed a little differently.


Jim


...tsunamied...

Not in China.


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn
shades of an endless night.

On 5 Jan 2005 06:41:13 -0800, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

I think it is safe to assume the tea on the shelf at my local tea
shoppe was handled x times before auction. The same tea on the shelf
in China the same amount of x times. I'm assuming after auction the
tea was bagged by mechanization for the Western market. If your case
probably more handling by middlemen since no auction. In both cases
the pipeline for handling evens out. So the only real delta the number
of potential customers who sniff, handle, taste the loose tea in a
local market. I assume that is anyone and everyone. You're the one
complaining why a TenRen store in Toronto isn't like the one you visit
in China.

The difference between complaint and the sharing of knowledge is
pretty great and considering most people here agreed with me,
including yourself, i don't consider it a complaint as you say.

See, you're assuming perhaps too much. Pre-auction/wholesale is where
the handling would occur. If the tea does in fact come from China, it
would have to have been handled quite a bit. I used to hang out in
the Fangcun market in Guangzhou and another large tea market area in
Dongguan on a regular basis. I'm just telling you what I saw and
learned.


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.