OK, I have a question that I've seen considerable debate upon recently
on other forums. As most people know, when doing Gongfu cha it's
custom to use your first steeping to clean the cups and the materials
with the tea to try and avoid any contamination from other teas used
with those pots/cups etc. I've also heard that this helps remove any
impurities that the tea may have or it cleans the leaves.

When steeping your first brewing, do you dump it out or do you drink
the first brewing? I have been dumping it simply out of habit because
I do gongfu cha so much especially if it's a Wulong or a Tie Guan Yin.
What's your opinion on this?

Green tea I don't dump.
Pu'er it depends on the type and how strong it is.


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

Mydnight writes:

OK, I have a question that I've seen considerable debate upon recently
on other forums. As most people know, when doing Gongfu cha it's
custom to use your first steeping to clean the cups and the materials
with the tea to try and avoid any contamination from other teas used
with those pots/cups etc. I've also heard that this helps remove any
impurities that the tea may have or it cleans the leaves.

Except with (some) Puerh, it isn't impurities that make me do a first
rinse. The main reason I do it is to saturate the leaves with hot
water so that they're full of tea liquor concentrate the next time hot
water enters the brewing vessel, making it possible to do short steeps
and not "cook" the leaves. (This idea's been mentioned here before,
most cogently I think by Dog Ma.) There are other reasons, like
getting the brewing vessel hot enough.

When steeping your first brewing, do you dump it out or do you drink
the first brewing?

Sometimes, if the aroma is seductive enough.

I have been dumping it simply out of habit because I do gongfu cha
so much especially if it's a Wulong or a Tie Guan Yin. What's your
opinion on this?

I generally rinse those.

Green tea I don't dump.

Nor I.

Pu'er it depends on the type and how strong it is.

I usually dump Puerh, for the same reasons as oolong, and I always do
it with low-quality Puerh.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

When steeping your first brewing, do you dump it out or do you drink
the first brewing?

Do you spit after a first kiss?

Sasha.

"Alex Chaihorsky" writes:

When steeping your first brewing, do you dump it out or do you drink
the first brewing?

Do you spit after a first kiss?

It depends.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I can see the logic behind letting the leaves get wet through doing a rinse.
Problem is, I haven't been able to make myself do it much because if my tea
is of many different sizes (if it has crumbeld etc.) then I'm going to lose
bits when I dump the rinse water. Plus my only yixing pot pours really
slowly (to me...I don't have experience with others) so I feel it's less of
a rinse with that and more of a semi-short steep, and I don't want to dump
that out. I rinse my pu-er just because it does open it up a little more.
The puer I have at the moment though is quite crumbly and has a bit of
detrius or dust when I break it apart. (not dust like dirt though by the
way). Anyway I can also rinse my puer easier because I'm not using a yixing,
I'm using a little ceramic pot I got passed down from my grandma. It pours
out faster and I use a strainer to catch any loose bits to throw them back
in. It's not elegant or enjoyable to do it that way but I can't figure out
any other way to not lose tea out of the rinse.

My other thought is that the smaller bits in the pot are going to infuse
faster when I do a steep...does anybody here go to great lengths to make
sure that the bits in the pot are of roughly the same size? In particular
with puer? I actually went thorough my older bag of Tai Kuan Yin, the one I
used to love so much that gave me a very nasty bittter experience last time
I tried it, and I sorted out the sizes to mostly whole, half that size, and
grains, just so that size wasn't a factor when next I get up my nerve to try
it.

Melinda


"Lewis Perin" wrote in message
news
Mydnight writes:

Except with (some) Puerh, it isn't impurities that make me do a first
rinse. The main reason I do it is to saturate the leaves with hot
water so that they're full of tea liquor concentrate the next time hot
water enters the brewing vessel, making it possible to do short steeps
and not "cook" the leaves. (This idea's been mentioned here before,
most cogently I think by Dog Ma.) There are other reasons, like
getting the brewing vessel hot enough.

"Melinda" writes:

I can see the logic behind letting the leaves get wet through doing a rinse.
Problem is, I haven't been able to make myself do it much because if my tea
is of many different sizes (if it has crumbeld etc.) then I'm going to lose
bits when I dump the rinse water. Plus my only yixing pot pours really
slowly (to me...I don't have experience with others)

Maybe its air hole needs to be cleaned or reamed. How long does it
take to pour?

so I feel it's less of a rinse with that and more of a semi-short
steep, and I don't want to dump that out. I rinse my pu-er just
because it does open it up a little more. The puer I have at the
moment though is quite crumbly and has a bit of detrius or dust when
I break it apart. (not dust like dirt though by the way). Anyway I
can also rinse my puer easier because I'm not using a yixing, I'm
using a little ceramic pot I got passed down from my grandma. It
pours out faster and I use a strainer to catch any loose bits to
throw them back in. It's not elegant or enjoyable to do it that way
but I can't figure out any other way to not lose tea out of the
rinse.

My other thought is that the smaller bits in the pot are going to infuse
faster when I do a steep...does anybody here go to great lengths to make
sure that the bits in the pot are of roughly the same size?

There are people who go to some lengths to make sure that the bits are
*not* of equal size. Some purists say that if you don't have a
certain proportion of crumbled leaves along with the whole ones it
isn't really gongfu.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

as an aside, definitely make sure you use different yixing pots if you
are going to brew pu'er. using wulong and tieguanyin in the same pot
is alright, but pu'er leaves a residual more profound than wulong.

you blokes agree?


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

I found that not crumbling up the puerh works better for me. It prolongs the
whole extraction process and makes the first steep not as sensitive for
oversteeping and second and third more flavourful. Try it. Jut use the same
amount of puerh in one or several chunks, without crumbling. Taste
constantly because the first steep MAY take a bit longer (may not).

Sasha.


"Melinda" wrote in message
...
I can see the logic behind letting the leaves get wet through doing a
rinse. Problem is, I haven't been able to make myself do it much because if
my tea is of many different sizes (if it has crumbeld etc.) then I'm going
to lose bits when I dump the rinse water. Plus my only yixing pot pours
really slowly (to me...I don't have experience with others) so I feel it's
less of a rinse with that and more of a semi-short steep, and I don't want
to dump that out. I rinse my pu-er just because it does open it up a little
more. The puer I have at the moment though is quite crumbly and has a bit
of detrius or dust when I break it apart. (not dust like dirt though by the
way). Anyway I can also rinse my puer easier because I'm not using a
yixing, I'm using a little ceramic pot I got passed down from my grandma.
It pours out faster and I use a strainer to catch any loose bits to throw
them back in. It's not elegant or enjoyable to do it that way but I can't
figure out any other way to not lose tea out of the rinse.

My other thought is that the smaller bits in the pot are going to infuse
faster when I do a steep...does anybody here go to great lengths to make
sure that the bits in the pot are of roughly the same size? In particular
with puer? I actually went thorough my older bag of Tai Kuan Yin, the one
I used to love so much that gave me a very nasty bittter experience last
time I tried it, and I sorted out the sizes to mostly whole, half that
size, and grains, just so that size wasn't a factor when next I get up my
nerve to try it.

Melinda


"Lewis Perin" wrote in message
news
Mydnight writes:

Except with (some) Puerh, it isn't impurities that make me do a first
rinse. The main reason I do it is to saturate the leaves with hot
water so that they're full of tea liquor concentrate the next time hot
water enters the brewing vessel, making it possible to do short steeps
and not "cook" the leaves. (This idea's been mentioned here before,
most cogently I think by Dog Ma.) There are other reasons, like
getting the brewing vessel hot enough.

"Lewis Perin" wrote in message
news

Maybe its air hole needs to be cleaned or reamed. How long does it
take to pour?


Well I haven't timed it but just by memory...around 10 seconds? But also
remember that my yixing is a lot bigger than most people's on here
apparently, it is aroung 11 ounces I think. The spout hole is small it seems
to me compared to some of the yixing I've seen online. It doesn't seem to
pour much faster when the lid is all the way off though.

There are people who go to some lengths to make sure that the bits are
*not* of equal size. Some purists say that if you don't have a
certain proportion of crumbled leaves along with the whole ones it
isn't really gongfu.


Oh geeze....LMAO I can't win, lol.... And here I thought I was on to
something. Thanks for the info though, I'll just, ah, go remix my
TGY...::tip-toes off quietly::

Melinda


/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Oh yeah, I would NOT put pu-er in a pot that I wanted to use for an oolong,
nope nope nope. But I haven't used my yixing for anything but TGY anyhow,
and a heavier baked one at that. I may buy multiple pots for the different
oxidation levels of the oolongs. I really want to get another pot so I can
try a Bai Hao in it though....man that stuff is good....


Melinda



"Mydnight" wrote in message
...
as an aside, definitely make sure you use different yixing pots if you
are going to brew pu'er. using wulong and tieguanyin in the same pot
is alright, but pu'er leaves a residual more profound than wulong.

you blokes agree?


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades
of an endless night.

12/6/04


as an aside, definitely make sure you use different yixing pots if you
are going to brew pu'er. using wulong and tieguanyin in the same pot
is alright, but pu'er leaves a residual more profound than wulong.

you blokes agree?


Mydnight


When you say, "wulong," are you referring to all those Oolongs that are not
"tieguanyin," or is there something I'm missing here. (I know I've asked
this question before, but I haven't yet gotten a handle on it. Is there a
variety of "Oolong" called "wulong"? If the two terms are not synonimous,
I'm thoroughly confused. BTW, Mydnight, I thoroughly agree.

Michael

"Alex Chaihorsky" writes:
[...to crumble or not...]
I found that not crumbling up the puerh works better for me. It prolongs the
whole extraction process and makes the first steep not as sensitive for
oversteeping and second and third more flavourful. Try it. Jut use the same
amount of puerh in one or several chunks, without crumbling. Taste
constantly because the first steep MAY take a bit longer (may not).

Apparently I created some confusion by neglecting to mention that the
gongfu purists who crumble some of the leaf do it only, as far as I
know, with oolongs.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 11:52:32 GMT, Michael Plant
wrote:

m12/6/04


as an aside, definitely make sure you use different yixing pots if you
are going to brew pu'er. using wulong and tieguanyin in the same pot
is alright, but pu'er leaves a residual more profound than wulong.

you blokes agree?


Mydnight


When you say, "wulong," are you referring to all those Oolongs that are not
"tieguanyin," or is there something I'm missing here. (I know I've asked
this question before, but I haven't yet gotten a handle on it. Is there a
variety of "Oolong" called "wulong"? If the two terms are not synonimous,
I'm thoroughly confused. BTW, Mydnight, I thoroughly agree.

Michael

I was just referring to anything in the Wulong family of teas and that
includes tie guan yin. I have always been told, and I have noticed,
that using the same pots for different wulongs, including tie guan yin
wasn't that big of a deal in most cases.

From what I know, Oolong is just the westernized spelling of Wulong
and I think also that it reflects the Cantonese pronunciation of the
word. Also, I'm thinking the wu was dropped and replaced with oo
because it would be less awkward on our Western palates to say. There
are other examples of loanword spelling changes as well. The one that
springs immediately to mind is Gongfu. Gongfu is the mandarin for
what we know as Kung fu...Kung fu being the Cantonese spelling of the
word in mandarin.

Wulong is a type of tea and is also a class of tea. For instance you
can have a gao shan wulong (high mountain oolong) or a tie guan yin
and these are both members of the wulong class of teas. You can also
have just wulong cha (tea) that is solely wulong without any other
distinction other than it's wulong.

Just to make sure my assertion isn't totally wrong, I looked up the
word in the OED:

Forms: 18- oolong, 19- wulong. Also with capital initial. [ Chinese
wl¨®ng w black + l¨®ng dragon, imperial

Apparently before the 19th C. it was solely known as oolong in the
west. More people know wulong now, but still only use oolong.
Interesting. I'm a dork. heh.

Hope this helps.


Mydnight

--------------------
thus then i turn me from my countries light, to dwell in the solemn shades of an endless night.

12/7/04


snip

I was just referring to anything in the Wulong family of teas and that
includes tie guan yin. I have always been told, and I have noticed,
that using the same pots for different wulongs, including tie guan yin
wasn't that big of a deal in most cases.

It's a very big deal. I've broken mine down thus: 1) WuYi,
2) Phoenix Bird, 3) lightly oxidized and roasted other Oolongs
and Bao Zhongs, 4) heavily roasted Oolongs and TGY's,
5) medium oxidized and/or roasted TGY's. Certain specific
Oolongs I never brew in one of these pots because their
flavors are too "other." This probably a minimal breakdown
because others have a dedicated pot for the various Phoenix
and/or WuYi varietals. They of course have overdone it.

From what I know, Oolong is just the westernized spelling of Wulong
and I think also that it reflects the Cantonese pronunciation of the
word. Also, I'm thinking the wu was dropped and replaced with oo
because it would be less awkward on our Western palates to say. There
are other examples of loanword spelling changes as well. The one that
springs immediately to mind is Gongfu. Gongfu is the mandarin for
what we know as Kung fu...Kung fu being the Cantonese spelling of the
word in mandarin.

Got it. Thanks.

Wulong is a type of tea and is also a class of tea. For instance you
can have a gao shan wulong (high mountain oolong) or a tie guan yin
and these are both members of the wulong class of teas. You can also
have just wulong cha (tea) that is solely wulong without any other
distinction other than it's wulong.

In other words, generic Oolong...or however you might spell it?

Just to make sure my assertion isn't totally wrong, I looked up the
word in the OED:

Forms: 18- oolong, 19- wulong. Also with capital initial. [ Chinese
wl¨®ng w black + l¨®ng dragon, imperial

Apparently before the 19th C. it was solely known as oolong in the
west. More people know wulong now, but still only use oolong.
Interesting. I'm a dork. heh.

Hope this helps.

Etymolotgically, I'm not so concerned, although of course interested. My
question was whether or not there is a specific "wulong" varietal in the
"Oolong" type, putting spellings aside. I understand from what you wrote
that there is not.

Michael

Michael, could you expand on this for me? What I mean is, WuYi is what they
call "rock" oolong, correct? And isn't it one of the ones that one has to be
careful about that is mis-labled at times because it is so precious? Is
every WuYi that you've had similar in oxidized level? Can you give an
example of different WuYi variatals..do you mean different flushes or
different origins or..? In other words what are some of the
designations/labels of variatals? Same question applies for me for Phoenix
Bird (same as Dan Cong?) and thirdly what are the Bao Zhongs, i.e. do you
mean all that are named Bao Zhong or..? I got the part about TGY since I've
had a both light and dark one of those.What are the specific oolongs you
never brew in those other pots?


My question is more basic than you might think, I'm just trying to get a
handle on the different varieties you talk about since my experience isn't
that extensive. I can look at vendor pages all day long but there are so
many different names and sometimes different names for the same thing or
partial different names for the same thing which may or may not matter, that
I get easily mixed up. Oh, and where would Bao Hai fit into this scheme?
Thanks very much!

Melinda


It's a very big deal. I've broken mine down thus: 1) WuYi,
2) Phoenix Bird, 3) lightly oxidized and roasted other Oolongs
and Bao Zhongs, 4) heavily roasted Oolongs and TGY's,
5) medium oxidized and/or roasted TGY's. Certain specific
Oolongs I never brew in one of these pots because their
flavors are too "other." This probably a minimal breakdown
because others have a dedicated pot for the various Phoenix
and/or WuYi varietals. They of course have overdone it.