I'd forgotton that I'd signed up for Teahub's (an online tea merchant,
no affiliation) E-mail newsletter...checking out their site I found
this http://www.teahub.com/P2004010.htm , which they call Young Green
Pu-erh Tea. Have any of you pu'er lover's ordered from these people
and whaddaya think of the description of this tea? It looks nice in
the picture but I wonder about merchants that emphasize how awfully
old their tea trees are all the time...it would seem to me that if
there were really that rare a class of ancient tea trees we'd never be
offered anything from them to drink, being plebians and all...

Melinda (again, no affiliation...just thought the pic was pretty and
wondered what you thought)

Melinda -

My policy is always to boycott the online vendors who has different
pricelists for different countries.
I have no problem with additional postage and handling charges for sending
international. But believe me - they do not sell this tea to
Chinese-speaking public for $60. So every time you see the web site without
openly posted prices for all their products - you are being taken for a
ride. Just click them away.

Sasha.

"Melinda" wrote in message
om...
I'd forgotton that I'd signed up for Teahub's (an online tea merchant,
no affiliation) E-mail newsletter...checking out their site I found
this http://www.teahub.com/P2004010.htm , which they call Young Green
Pu-erh Tea. Have any of you pu'er lover's ordered from these people
and whaddaya think of the description of this tea? It looks nice in
the picture but I wonder about merchants that emphasize how awfully
old their tea trees are all the time...it would seem to me that if
there were really that rare a class of ancient tea trees we'd never be
offered anything from them to drink, being plebians and all...

Melinda (again, no affiliation...just thought the pic was pretty and
wondered what you thought)

Alex gy.com10/27/04


[Sasha pans TeaHub]
Melinda -

My policy is always to boycott the online vendors who has different
pricelists for different countries.
I have no problem with additional postage and handling charges for sending
international. But believe me - they do not sell this tea to
Chinese-speaking public for $60. So every time you see the web site without
openly posted prices for all their products - you are being taken for a
ride. Just click them away.

Sasha.

Sasha,

Could you be much more specific in your contention about dual price systems
at TeaHub? $60. for 500 grams of this particular tea strikes me as quite
reasonable, but of course we'd need to have a go at it before judging. I
wouldn't click them off that quick.

Michael

While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced differently
in different countries by the companies that have presence there (prices for
real estate, warehousing, taxes, employee salaries, etc), online trade is
geographically blind (with exception to shipping charges). Therefore if you
see a tea sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two pricelists -
for Chinese and for stupid rich laowai. There is no other logic behind not
having their prices posted online.
And while its their right to do business that way, it is ours not to play
stupid. If you take a look at this company site you will see that almost all
of their prices are not listed.

If you buy from David Hoffman at these prices it is understandable - he has
a huge Californian overhead, taxes, etc.. But you also get the service,
reputation, return policy, etc. He stores the teas in caves, some of them
being aged for quite some time, so you can buy the same tea several years
later. None of that is known or possible with the online web-based vendor
who can disappear as quickly as it appeared. Anyone who spent at least a
day in China knows - milking a stupid laowai is a national sport.
Paying US prices for online purchases is bad business. Unless being stupid
laowai somehow appeals to someone.

Sasha.



"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
Alex gy.com10/27/04


[Sasha pans TeaHub]
Melinda -

My policy is always to boycott the online vendors who has different
pricelists for different countries.
I have no problem with additional postage and handling charges for
sending
international. But believe me - they do not sell this tea to
Chinese-speaking public for $60. So every time you see the web site
without
openly posted prices for all their products - you are being taken for a
ride. Just click them away.

Sasha.

Sasha,

Could you be much more specific in your contention about dual price
systems
at TeaHub? $60. for 500 grams of this particular tea strikes me as quite
reasonable, but of course we'd need to have a go at it before judging. I
wouldn't click them off that quick.

Michael

Alex igy.com10/27/04


While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced differently
in different countries by the companies that have presence there (prices for
real estate, warehousing, taxes, employee salaries, etc), online trade is
geographically blind (with exception to shipping charges). Therefore if you
see a tea sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two pricelists -
for Chinese and for stupid rich laowai. There is no other logic behind not
having their prices posted online.

While you could be quite right in your assessment, there are any number of
reasons why a company might not post prices on the internet.

And while its their right to do business that way, it is ours not to play
stupid. If you take a look at this company site you will see that almost all
of their prices are not listed.

Are you quite sure those of us who buy from this company are stupid? Is it
possible that we have compared their prices for specific teas with other
companies and have consulted our friends in China?

If you buy from David Hoffman at these prices it is understandable - he has
a huge Californian overhead, taxes, etc.. But you also get the service,
reputation, return policy, etc. He stores the teas in caves, some of them
being aged for quite some time, so you can buy the same tea several years
later.

I apparently know more about those caves than you do. But, don't let that
worry you. (I frequently purchase teas from David Hoffman.)

None of that is known or possible with the online web-based vendor
who can disappear as quickly as it appeared.

Which is why it pays to know your vendor.

Anyone who spent at least a
day in China knows - milking a stupid laowai is a national sport.

I feel so bad now, Sasha. I was having such a great morning, and you brought
me down.

Paying US prices for online purchases is bad business. Unless being stupid
laowai somehow appeals to someone.

You used the word "stupid" four times. I'm smarting from the blows.

Michael
Stupid Laowai

Michael Plant writes:

Alex igy.com10/27/04


While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced
differently in different countries by the companies that have
presence there (prices for real estate, warehousing, taxes,
employee salaries, etc), online trade is geographically blind
(with exception to shipping charges). Therefore if you see a tea
sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two
pricelists - for Chinese and for stupid rich laowai. There is no
other logic behind not having their prices posted online.

While you could be quite right in your assessment, there are any
number of reasons why a company might not post prices on the
internet.

Trying to think of some, I keep coming up empty. Can you help,
Michael (or anyone else?)

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
Alex igy.com10/27/04


While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced
differently
in different countries by the companies that have presence there (prices
for
real estate, warehousing, taxes, employee salaries, etc), online trade is
geographically blind (with exception to shipping charges). Therefore if
you
see a tea sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two
pricelists -
for Chinese and for stupid rich laowai. There is no other logic behind
not
having their prices posted online.

While you could be quite right in your assessment, there are any number of
reasons why a company might not post prices on the internet.

Name one. There also has to be an explanation why none of the other
online tea (and non-tea) retailers do that.


And while its their right to do business that way, it is ours not to play
stupid. If you take a look at this company site you will see that almost
all
of their prices are not listed.

Are you quite sure those of us who buy from this company are stupid? Is
it
possible that we have compared their prices for specific teas with other
companies and have consulted our friends in China?

Michael, I am sorry - I never mean for you to take this personally. But if
your mean to tell me that your friends in China tell you that a $60 for a
fresh regular 500g beencha is a good price, they most probably mean 60
yuan, not 60 DOLLARS (500 yuan). Believe me, a tea has to be of a very
exceptional quality and at least already be aged 3-5 years (just to know if
it ages well, and there is nothing that indicates that in its description)
to warrant such a price. You do realize that an engineer in Beijing makes
about 2,000 yuan /month so that tea will cost him one week of his salary
(about $1,500 in our scale).
Also it must be stated that one does not have to be "stupid" to buy
overpriced items. Some of us (God bless them) are so fortunate as not to
even look at the price for the items they really like.


If you buy from David Hoffman at these prices it is understandable - he
has
a huge Californian overhead, taxes, etc.. But you also get the service,
reputation, return policy, etc. He stores the teas in caves, some of them
being aged for quite some time, so you can buy the same tea several years
later.

I apparently know more about those caves than you do. But, don't let that
worry you. (I frequently purchase teas from David Hoffman.)

And that was meant to say what?

None of that is known or possible with the online web-based vendor
who can disappear as quickly as it appeared.

Which is why it pays to know your vendor.

Anyone who spent at least a
day in China knows - milking a stupid laowai is a national sport.

I feel so bad now, Sasha. I was having such a great morning, and you
brought
me down.

Why? Big deal - they have had you for awile! May be for - God Almighty -
couple of hundred bucks! One cannot know everything and I also paid
ridiculous prices for things Chinese before I actually saw them sold 10 to
20 times cheaper in China. Give some take some. Big deal.


Paying US prices for online purchases is bad business. Unless being
stupid
laowai somehow appeals to someone.

You used the word "stupid" four times. I'm smarting from the blows.

I should not have and I apologize. I did it because that is the expression I
heard many times from Chinese in China (since nothing in my appearence
betray my knowledge of the language) - "Hey sister (say, to a waitress that
serves me in a restorant) - get some real money out of that rich stupid
laowai!".
BTW - its is my advice to everybody who goes there - always smile and thank
waitresses each time she serves you tea or next dish(Xixie, xiaojie - thank
you young lady) because Chinese never thank servers and they love you
instantly for that. I had my bills from expensive hotel restorants halfed
and dissapeared completely from my final hotel bill thanks to that.
If you go there often bring some small gifts to your favourite people at the
hotels and restorants that you frequently go to. You will thank me many
times for this advice.


Michael
Stupid Laowai

Sasha
Suspects that he still qualifies as a "Stupid Laowai" despite his
"knowledge"

Michael Plant wrote:

Alex igy.com10/27/04


While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced differently
in different countries by the companies that have presence there (prices for
real estate, warehousing, taxes, employee salaries, etc), online trade is
geographically blind (with exception to shipping charges). Therefore if you
see a tea sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two pricelists -
for Chinese and for stupid rich laowai. There is no other logic behind not
having their prices posted online.

While you could be quite right in your assessment, there are any number of
reasons why a company might not post prices on the internet.

Why not have a Chinese request the prices for a few Teahub offerings and
report to the group? Didn't Samarkand claim a Chinese origin?

--crymad

BTW, if you go to that page where they describe this tea
http://www.teahub.com/P2004010.htm with list the price as $60 and click on
the link to the Chinese version (??) a Chinese explanation will pop up. At
the very end of the explanation text about the tea you will see the
following 4 characters ???? that read "jiage ling ji" and mean "Price on a
separate list". That is just above the listed price $60 !!! So, if you read
Chinese, do not worry about $60, get your price somewhere else!.
Do anyone need more proof?

Sasha.

"crymad" wrote in message
...


Michael Plant wrote:

Alex igy.com10/27/04


While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced
differently
in different countries by the companies that have presence there
(prices for
real estate, warehousing, taxes, employee salaries, etc), online trade
is
geographically blind (with exception to shipping charges). Therefore if
you
see a tea sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we
will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two
pricelists -
for Chinese and for stupid rich laowai. There is no other logic behind
not
having their prices posted online.

While you could be quite right in your assessment, there are any number
of
reasons why a company might not post prices on the internet.

Why not have a Chinese request the prices for a few Teahub offerings and
report to the group? Didn't Samarkand claim a Chinese origin?

--crymad

This is pretty damning. Still, getting that "friends and family" list
would remove all doubt.

--crymad


Alex Chaihorsky wrote:

BTW, if you go to that page where they describe this tea
http://www.teahub.com/P2004010.htm with list the price as $60 and click on
the link to the Chinese version (??) a Chinese explanation will pop up. At
the very end of the explanation text about the tea you will see the
following 4 characters ???? that read "jiage ling ji" and mean "Price on a
separate list". That is just above the listed price $60 !!! So, if you read
Chinese, do not worry about $60, get your price somewhere else!.
Do anyone need more proof?

Sasha.

"crymad" wrote in message
...


Michael Plant wrote:

Alex igy.com10/27/04


While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced
differently
in different countries by the companies that have presence there
(prices for
real estate, warehousing, taxes, employee salaries, etc), online trade
is
geographically blind (with exception to shipping charges). Therefore if
you
see a tea sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we
will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two
pricelists -
for Chinese and for stupid rich laowai. There is no other logic behind
not
having their prices posted online.

While you could be quite right in your assessment, there are any number
of
reasons why a company might not post prices on the internet.

Why not have a Chinese request the prices for a few Teahub offerings and
report to the group? Didn't Samarkand claim a Chinese origin?

--crymad

"Lewis Perin" wrote in message

While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced
differently in different countries by the companies that have
presence there (prices for real estate, warehousing, taxes,
employee salaries, etc), online trade is geographically blind
(with exception to shipping charges).

Weird conception of business...
In market economy (and it's market economy in China), the market fixes the
price. Regardless of costs of productions of the service/product.

Therefore if you see a tea
sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two
pricelists

Why wouldn't they ? They probably don't live only on occasional internet
retail sales into the US, it's logical they favor their main customers that
allow them to pay their rent and food.

I have 3 price lists, and I have to change them often. I have not 3 grades
of stupidity among customers, but 3 very different levels of services.
Anybody doing a business of anything has a unique pricelist ? If yes, you're
lucky.

There is no
other logic behind not having their prices posted online.

Sasha reading in minds !

While you could be quite right in your assessment, there are any
number of reasons why a company might not post prices on the
internet.

Trying to think of some, I keep coming up empty. Can you help,
Michael (or anyone else?)

3 reasons I've seen in companies I've worked for :

-Prices fluctuate daily (that's the case for wholesellers of products that
are perishable and with a changing market).
-They list many products, but they don't keep all of them in stock, so if
you order, they call their supplier to check the current prices and
availability.
-Customers want to know prices in their currency, and the change rate
fluctuates. It's a loss of time to calculate in advance for products you
don't sell often to a given country.

One reason for my own business (I try to remedy...) :

-They have not the means (knowledge,time, quick connection..etc) to update a
webpage more than once in a blue moon. So it's easier to send the prices on
request by mail or even to send a catalogue.

One reason certain persons I know have, but that's more unlikely for tea :

-They don't want competitors to know easily all their price list, so they
give to customers only
the prices of the few articles/services they are interested in. Even if they
publish a price-list, it is "decorative" and you rarely get the announced
price. Many hotels do that as they are *fighting* for the big deals with
travel agencies and congresses.

I don't order much online or by the phone, unless it's standardized products
like ink for my printer, etc.
Puer and vintage teas are a special case, but for other teas, I find it a
bit *weird* that so many on-line retailers advertise teas at constant price
all year. I mean I don't mind if it's Lipton Yellow tea bags. But tea
leaves can be fresher or older, no ? So I tend to think that the good
on-line tea sellers are the more "flexible" about pricing.
You can shop around to check the market prices if you think they are
cheating on you.

Kuri

Lewis Perin wrote:
Michael Plant writes:


Alex igy.com10/27/04



While it is certainly normal for different products to be priced
differently in different countries by the companies that have
presence there (prices for real estate, warehousing, taxes,
employee salaries, etc), online trade is geographically blind
(with exception to shipping charges). Therefore if you see a tea
sold by a Chinese company online without listed price (we will
send you the pricelist) that means that they have at least two
pricelists - for Chinese and for stupid rich laowai. There is no
other logic behind not having their prices posted online.

While you could be quite right in your assessment, there are any
number of reasons why a company might not post prices on the
internet.


Trying to think of some, I keep coming up empty. Can you help,
Michael (or anyone else?)

I've seen different lists for different regions, maybe each one is in
the nationa currency so you don't need to look up exchange rate? Just a
guess.

-ben