Thank you for your insight. While I didn't state it, botulism is my
main concern. ...
Provided I maintain a good pH and pressure cook, would
that be sufficient?

Well... you can pressure can low pH food (drink) and be safe. You'd need
to try to find a pressure/time for your specific item. OTOH, if you
drop the pH down enough (like jelly, etc), then the "boiling water bath"
method can be used. It depends whether you trust your life to your pH
measurement method!

Note... pressure canning is going to raise the temperature up toward
240F and it is going to be held there for a time, say 15 - 20 minutes.
I really wonder how tea would taste after such treatment (most folks
usually simply steep tea in LESS THAN boiling water, right?).


I'm not a canner, so I'm learning on this front too. What would be the
best procedure for this?
....
I thought when you canned jars, air was
pushed out. What would happen if I pressure cooked capped bottles?

I've wondered this myself. You are correct that air is pushed out.
However, commercial canners seal the metal cans before they are pressure
cooked... so I suppose it might be doable with glass as well? If you do
it, let us know... It'd be interesting to use this method to can
things like juice, hot sauce, etc. in "beer" bottles.

Thank you for your insight. While I didn't state it, botulism is my
main concern. ...
Provided I maintain a good pH and pressure cook, would
that be sufficient?

Well... you can pressure can low pH food (drink) and be safe. You'd need
to try to find a pressure/time for your specific item. OTOH, if you
drop the pH down enough (like jelly, etc), then the "boiling water bath"
method can be used. It depends whether you trust your life to your pH
measurement method!

Note... pressure canning is going to raise the temperature up toward
240F and it is going to be held there for a time, say 15 - 20 minutes.
I really wonder how tea would taste after such treatment (most folks
usually simply steep tea in LESS THAN boiling water, right?).


I'm not a canner, so I'm learning on this front too. What would be the
best procedure for this?
....
I thought when you canned jars, air was
pushed out. What would happen if I pressure cooked capped bottles?

I've wondered this myself. You are correct that air is pushed out.
However, commercial canners seal the metal cans before they are pressure
cooked... so I suppose it might be doable with glass as well? If you do
it, let us know... It'd be interesting to use this method to can
things like juice, hot sauce, etc. in "beer" bottles.

Well, this is the next step if I can't bottle iced tea... hard iced
tea. Either brewing or spiking.

JPittman wrote in message news:
If any natural yeast survives the bottling process it will ferment
inside the bottles, with the sugar, producing carbon dioxide. The tea
will become "carbonated" and may have a very different flavor than expected.

Well, this is the next step if I can't bottle iced tea... hard iced
tea. Either brewing or spiking.

JPittman wrote in message news:
If any natural yeast survives the bottling process it will ferment
inside the bottles, with the sugar, producing carbon dioxide. The tea
will become "carbonated" and may have a very different flavor than expected.

"Ben S." wrote in message ...
Mike Flaminio wrote:

They may explode, or even more likely blow the caps off. Are you a beer
brewer by any chance?

What I would do, is sanitize the bottles and caps using a high-strength
brewer's method, probably using iodophor. This stuff needs to be rinsed
like crazy so I would probably boil the bottles and caps. I would also
boil the tea to make sure that it wasn't contaminated.

Then, I would proceed to fill and cap while hot to minimize
contamination risk.

I guess you could do this canning-style by heating the filled bottles in
a water bath then capping with (sanitized) caps.

I brew mead and soda using similar methods. I don't know how a
yeast-innoculated fluid relates to a non-living tea though.

IMHO, this is a lot of work and I'd probably just make a big batch of
concentrate and freeze it :-)


Acutally yeah, I'm starting to brew my own beer. That's what I got me
thinking about tea, my other favorite drink. I have a vision of
grabbing a bottle of my favorite tea off the shelf.

So, are you suggesting putting filled bottles upright in boiling
water. For like 10-15 minutes? Then capping?

"Ben S." wrote in message ...
Mike Flaminio wrote:

They may explode, or even more likely blow the caps off. Are you a beer
brewer by any chance?

What I would do, is sanitize the bottles and caps using a high-strength
brewer's method, probably using iodophor. This stuff needs to be rinsed
like crazy so I would probably boil the bottles and caps. I would also
boil the tea to make sure that it wasn't contaminated.

Then, I would proceed to fill and cap while hot to minimize
contamination risk.

I guess you could do this canning-style by heating the filled bottles in
a water bath then capping with (sanitized) caps.

I brew mead and soda using similar methods. I don't know how a
yeast-innoculated fluid relates to a non-living tea though.

IMHO, this is a lot of work and I'd probably just make a big batch of
concentrate and freeze it :-)


Acutally yeah, I'm starting to brew my own beer. That's what I got me
thinking about tea, my other favorite drink. I have a vision of
grabbing a bottle of my favorite tea off the shelf.

So, are you suggesting putting filled bottles upright in boiling
water. For like 10-15 minutes? Then capping?

Definitely don't pressure can capped bottles.
I think the risk of botulism from bottled tea is probably negligible.
There's just not going to be much nutrient in the brew. Also the tannins
and acidity of the sugar will probably do away with any botulinum spores.
Generally botulism is introduced as the result of soil contamination in
vegetables, so again I think the risk is low.
Go for it. It's more likely the tea will suffer from lacto infection than
botulism.
If you die, don't sue me, I ain't got shizz...

-Brett

(Mike Flaminio) drunkenly bellowed in
m:

Thank you for your insight. While I didn't state it, botulism is my
main concern. I didn't test the pH, although that was one intent of
the lemon. I've got a quality pH test kit (designed for water
treatment) for my aquarium. I could easily add lemon to reach the
desired pH. Provided I maintain a good pH and pressure cook, would
that be sufficient?

I'm not a canner, so I'm learning on this front too. What would be the
best procedure for this? I thought when you canned jars, air was
pushed out. What would happen if I pressure cooked capped bottles?


"Cwrw42" wrote in message
nk.net...
Mike

My instinct as a professional microbiologist says proceed with
extreme caution if at all.

Everything I have read about tea packaging has told me that it is a
hot pack process anat it is usually pasteurized or loaded with
preservatives (Sodium Benzoate). The big unknown is what is the pH
of brewed tea. What makes beer so safe is that after fermentation
the pH of beer is typically between 4.4 and 4.7, this combined with
the alcohol and hop acids inhibits the growth of pathogenic
microorganism, particularly C. botulinum the organism that produces
the botulism toxin.

I have no knowledge or experience of the safety or efficacy of what I
am proposing below but if I were to bottle tea this is how I would
proceed. Brew the tea, sweeten and add lemon to taste, bottle and cap
the bottles. Then using a canning pressure cooker process the bottles
as you would for any low acid canned food.

If I wanted an "instant", ready to serve tea that I could make up
rapidly this is what I would do. Make up a very strong brew of tea,
add sugar and lemon and store in the fridge, this should last about a
week. This can then be diluted to drinking strength pretty quickly.
A larger quantity of the "concentrate" could be stored frozen for a
greater period of time.

Be Safe - Cwrw-42.



--
"They who drink beer will think beer."
-Washington Irving

Definitely don't pressure can capped bottles.
I think the risk of botulism from bottled tea is probably negligible.
There's just not going to be much nutrient in the brew. Also the tannins
and acidity of the sugar will probably do away with any botulinum spores.
Generally botulism is introduced as the result of soil contamination in
vegetables, so again I think the risk is low.
Go for it. It's more likely the tea will suffer from lacto infection than
botulism.
If you die, don't sue me, I ain't got shizz...

-Brett

(Mike Flaminio) drunkenly bellowed in
m:

Thank you for your insight. While I didn't state it, botulism is my
main concern. I didn't test the pH, although that was one intent of
the lemon. I've got a quality pH test kit (designed for water
treatment) for my aquarium. I could easily add lemon to reach the
desired pH. Provided I maintain a good pH and pressure cook, would
that be sufficient?

I'm not a canner, so I'm learning on this front too. What would be the
best procedure for this? I thought when you canned jars, air was
pushed out. What would happen if I pressure cooked capped bottles?


"Cwrw42" wrote in message
nk.net...
Mike

My instinct as a professional microbiologist says proceed with
extreme caution if at all.

Everything I have read about tea packaging has told me that it is a
hot pack process anat it is usually pasteurized or loaded with
preservatives (Sodium Benzoate). The big unknown is what is the pH
of brewed tea. What makes beer so safe is that after fermentation
the pH of beer is typically between 4.4 and 4.7, this combined with
the alcohol and hop acids inhibits the growth of pathogenic
microorganism, particularly C. botulinum the organism that produces
the botulism toxin.

I have no knowledge or experience of the safety or efficacy of what I
am proposing below but if I were to bottle tea this is how I would
proceed. Brew the tea, sweeten and add lemon to taste, bottle and cap
the bottles. Then using a canning pressure cooker process the bottles
as you would for any low acid canned food.

If I wanted an "instant", ready to serve tea that I could make up
rapidly this is what I would do. Make up a very strong brew of tea,
add sugar and lemon and store in the fridge, this should last about a
week. This can then be diluted to drinking strength pretty quickly.
A larger quantity of the "concentrate" could be stored frozen for a
greater period of time.

Be Safe - Cwrw-42.



--
"They who drink beer will think beer."
-Washington Irving

Definitely don't pressure can capped bottles.
I think the risk of botulism from bottled tea is probably negligible.
There's just not going to be much nutrient in the brew. Also the tannins
and acidity of the sugar will probably do away with any botulinum spores.
Generally botulism is introduced as the result of soil contamination in
vegetables, so again I think the risk is low.
Go for it. It's more likely the tea will suffer from lacto infection than
botulism.
If you die, don't sue me, I ain't got shizz...

-Brett

(Mike Flaminio) drunkenly bellowed in
m:

Thank you for your insight. While I didn't state it, botulism is my
main concern. I didn't test the pH, although that was one intent of
the lemon. I've got a quality pH test kit (designed for water
treatment) for my aquarium. I could easily add lemon to reach the
desired pH. Provided I maintain a good pH and pressure cook, would
that be sufficient?

I'm not a canner, so I'm learning on this front too. What would be the
best procedure for this? I thought when you canned jars, air was
pushed out. What would happen if I pressure cooked capped bottles?


"Cwrw42" wrote in message
nk.net...
Mike

My instinct as a professional microbiologist says proceed with
extreme caution if at all.

Everything I have read about tea packaging has told me that it is a
hot pack process anat it is usually pasteurized or loaded with
preservatives (Sodium Benzoate). The big unknown is what is the pH
of brewed tea. What makes beer so safe is that after fermentation
the pH of beer is typically between 4.4 and 4.7, this combined with
the alcohol and hop acids inhibits the growth of pathogenic
microorganism, particularly C. botulinum the organism that produces
the botulism toxin.

I have no knowledge or experience of the safety or efficacy of what I
am proposing below but if I were to bottle tea this is how I would
proceed. Brew the tea, sweeten and add lemon to taste, bottle and cap
the bottles. Then using a canning pressure cooker process the bottles
as you would for any low acid canned food.

If I wanted an "instant", ready to serve tea that I could make up
rapidly this is what I would do. Make up a very strong brew of tea,
add sugar and lemon and store in the fridge, this should last about a
week. This can then be diluted to drinking strength pretty quickly.
A larger quantity of the "concentrate" could be stored frozen for a
greater period of time.

Be Safe - Cwrw-42.



--
"They who drink beer will think beer."
-Washington Irving

Mike Flaminio wrote:
"Ben S." wrote in message ...

Mike Flaminio wrote:

They may explode, or even more likely blow the caps off. Are you a beer
brewer by any chance?

What I would do, is sanitize the bottles and caps using a high-strength
brewer's method, probably using iodophor. This stuff needs to be rinsed
like crazy so I would probably boil the bottles and caps. I would also
boil the tea to make sure that it wasn't contaminated.

Then, I would proceed to fill and cap while hot to minimize
contamination risk.

I guess you could do this canning-style by heating the filled bottles in
a water bath then capping with (sanitized) caps.

I brew mead and soda using similar methods. I don't know how a
yeast-innoculated fluid relates to a non-living tea though.

IMHO, this is a lot of work and I'd probably just make a big batch of
concentrate and freeze it :-)



Acutally yeah, I'm starting to brew my own beer. That's what I got me
thinking about tea, my other favorite drink. I have a vision of
grabbing a bottle of my favorite tea off the shelf.

So, are you suggesting putting filled bottles upright in boiling
water. For like 10-15 minutes? Then capping?

I'd say long enough to get the tea inside up to as close to 212f as
possible for about 10 minutes - i think that's long enough to kill
anything in it.

Mike Flaminio wrote:
"Ben S." wrote in message ...

Mike Flaminio wrote:

They may explode, or even more likely blow the caps off. Are you a beer
brewer by any chance?

What I would do, is sanitize the bottles and caps using a high-strength
brewer's method, probably using iodophor. This stuff needs to be rinsed
like crazy so I would probably boil the bottles and caps. I would also
boil the tea to make sure that it wasn't contaminated.

Then, I would proceed to fill and cap while hot to minimize
contamination risk.

I guess you could do this canning-style by heating the filled bottles in
a water bath then capping with (sanitized) caps.

I brew mead and soda using similar methods. I don't know how a
yeast-innoculated fluid relates to a non-living tea though.

IMHO, this is a lot of work and I'd probably just make a big batch of
concentrate and freeze it :-)



Acutally yeah, I'm starting to brew my own beer. That's what I got me
thinking about tea, my other favorite drink. I have a vision of
grabbing a bottle of my favorite tea off the shelf.

So, are you suggesting putting filled bottles upright in boiling
water. For like 10-15 minutes? Then capping?

I'd say long enough to get the tea inside up to as close to 212f as
possible for about 10 minutes - i think that's long enough to kill
anything in it.

Speaking of bottled teas - One of the best iced
teas I have found is Tejava. About $1.29 at
Trader Joes for a quart unsweetened no lemon.
http;//www.tejava.com

Dale
Michael Plant wrote:
Mike,

I believe that the biggest bottler of teas in Japan is Ito En, which has a
store in New York City where they feature loose teas, not the bottled thing.
Their bottled (plasticked?) tea is available around the city. I'm told that
in Japan it's a vending machine thing to a large extent. Why not contact
them and ask them? Who knows, they might give you lots of good information
about production. You never know until you ask.

Michael

Speaking of bottled teas - One of the best iced
teas I have found is Tejava. About $1.29 at
Trader Joes for a quart unsweetened no lemon.
http;//www.tejava.com

Dale
Michael Plant wrote:
Mike,

I believe that the biggest bottler of teas in Japan is Ito En, which has a
store in New York City where they feature loose teas, not the bottled thing.
Their bottled (plasticked?) tea is available around the city. I'm told that
in Japan it's a vending machine thing to a large extent. Why not contact
them and ask them? Who knows, they might give you lots of good information
about production. You never know until you ask.

Michael

Michael Plant wrote in message ...
Mike,

I believe that the biggest bottler of teas in Japan is Ito En, which has a
store in New York City where they feature loose teas, not the bottled thing.
Their bottled (plasticked?) tea is available around the city. I'm told that
in Japan it's a vending machine thing to a large extent. Why not contact
them and ask them? Who knows, they might give you lots of good information
about production. You never know until you ask.

Michael

True dat. Itoen is the oldest and biggest and probably least likely to
let you in on any secrets because they're doing their best to break
into the US market. Have you seen their site? Unfortunately they seem
to sell some of the major teas that they have here in Japan, but they
seem to offer quite a lot of US oriented packaging. Fairly fluffy. But
I guess that is to be expected when your market is primarily composed
of manga-geeks, samurai nerds, and health-food hippies. They have a
haiku contest. Sad. I would rather see Coca Cola have a haiku contest
and Itoen offer their super popular O-i ocha.

Michael Plant wrote in message ...
Mike,

I believe that the biggest bottler of teas in Japan is Ito En, which has a
store in New York City where they feature loose teas, not the bottled thing.
Their bottled (plasticked?) tea is available around the city. I'm told that
in Japan it's a vending machine thing to a large extent. Why not contact
them and ask them? Who knows, they might give you lots of good information
about production. You never know until you ask.

Michael

True dat. Itoen is the oldest and biggest and probably least likely to
let you in on any secrets because they're doing their best to break
into the US market. Have you seen their site? Unfortunately they seem
to sell some of the major teas that they have here in Japan, but they
seem to offer quite a lot of US oriented packaging. Fairly fluffy. But
I guess that is to be expected when your market is primarily composed
of manga-geeks, samurai nerds, and health-food hippies. They have a
haiku contest. Sad. I would rather see Coca Cola have a haiku contest
and Itoen offer their super popular O-i ocha.