Teas should be like wine - "appellacion d' origine controlee", name and a
year. Otherwise - too much fraud possibilities. I need to call We Jia Bao
about this. he is a former field geologist himself, he will understand

Yes, this is a problem with the whole puer industry. You pretty much
have to develop a relationship with a vendor whom you trust. Don't
assume that because you recognize the outer tissue paper wrapper that
you know the tea inside. These wrappers are not sealed in any way and
there is nothing to prevent someone from unwrapping a cake and putting
their own wrapper on it. This is actually a fairly common practice.
Also, in China a given factory will often use whatever paper wrappers
that may be handy meaning that there is often no real link between the
wrapper and the tea inside. This is why you see the larger factories
imbed a label or piece of ribbon into the cake itself during the
manufacturing process, to help prevent forgeries. There is a move
lately to imbed logo impressions into the tea cakes directly.

But another thing you must realize is that there can be significant
variation within a single year from a single factory. Many factories
will process the leaves from the farmers as they are brought in and
wrap them all in the same paper. Consequently cakes made from leaf of
farmer #1 and cakes made from leaf of farmer #2 may taste very
different but have the exact same wrapper. Some years are more
repeatable than others. Product coming from the factory's own farms is
often more repeatable.

Puer production in the minority villages is also very much like a folk
craft where individual skill and tribal tradition dictate the process.
Repeatability is not highly sought after.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Alex . com9/22/04


I have not tried Dai bamboo yet, I am waiting for the right moment.

The moment came today. Dai bamboo 1996 is a good tea but nothing special.,
if you ask me.
May be it requires a more experienced drinker, may be cooler than 180 water.
may be longer wash (I did 2 washed 15-20 sec each)
I have not noticed anything bamboo in it. It may as well be kept in a PVC
pipe. But I did noticed it's bitter aftertaste. Just plain bitter, no
under-over-tones.

The problem lies with you, Sasha, not with the Dai Bamboo. I'm going to brew
up some right now. Seriously, there is the issue of great differences from
batch to batch and cake to cake as Mike described in a previous post. You
might be the victim of that kind of thing. Mine piece really is lovely.
(Don't even go there.)

So, among the teas listed in the thread, I lean more towards Mini menghai
Beencha 1999. Of course my dissapointment with it that it does not say
"Menghai" anywhere on therapper, so unless I am willing to buy it
exclusively from Dave, I have no chance of buying it.

Clever, those merchants.

That botheres me.
Teas should be like wine - "appellacion d' origine controlee", name and a
year. Otherwise - too much fraud possibilities. I need to call We Jia Bao
about this. he is a former field geologist himself, he will understand

I'm not sure about this. Control could bring the whole industry into the
middling range. That is, you can't get great unless you're willing to
sometimes get lousy. Know what I mean? It's the thrill of the hunt.


Sasha.

Alex . com9/22/04


I have not tried Dai bamboo yet, I am waiting for the right moment.

The moment came today. Dai bamboo 1996 is a good tea but nothing special.,
if you ask me.
May be it requires a more experienced drinker, may be cooler than 180 water.
may be longer wash (I did 2 washed 15-20 sec each)
I have not noticed anything bamboo in it. It may as well be kept in a PVC
pipe. But I did noticed it's bitter aftertaste. Just plain bitter, no
under-over-tones.

The problem lies with you, Sasha, not with the Dai Bamboo. I'm going to brew
up some right now. Seriously, there is the issue of great differences from
batch to batch and cake to cake as Mike described in a previous post. You
might be the victim of that kind of thing. Mine piece really is lovely.
(Don't even go there.)

So, among the teas listed in the thread, I lean more towards Mini menghai
Beencha 1999. Of course my dissapointment with it that it does not say
"Menghai" anywhere on therapper, so unless I am willing to buy it
exclusively from Dave, I have no chance of buying it.

Clever, those merchants.

That botheres me.
Teas should be like wine - "appellacion d' origine controlee", name and a
year. Otherwise - too much fraud possibilities. I need to call We Jia Bao
about this. he is a former field geologist himself, he will understand

I'm not sure about this. Control could bring the whole industry into the
middling range. That is, you can't get great unless you're willing to
sometimes get lousy. Know what I mean? It's the thrill of the hunt.


Sasha.

Alex . com9/22/04


I have not tried Dai bamboo yet, I am waiting for the right moment.

The moment came today. Dai bamboo 1996 is a good tea but nothing special.,
if you ask me.
May be it requires a more experienced drinker, may be cooler than 180 water.
may be longer wash (I did 2 washed 15-20 sec each)
I have not noticed anything bamboo in it. It may as well be kept in a PVC
pipe. But I did noticed it's bitter aftertaste. Just plain bitter, no
under-over-tones.

The problem lies with you, Sasha, not with the Dai Bamboo. I'm going to brew
up some right now. Seriously, there is the issue of great differences from
batch to batch and cake to cake as Mike described in a previous post. You
might be the victim of that kind of thing. Mine piece really is lovely.
(Don't even go there.)

So, among the teas listed in the thread, I lean more towards Mini menghai
Beencha 1999. Of course my dissapointment with it that it does not say
"Menghai" anywhere on therapper, so unless I am willing to buy it
exclusively from Dave, I have no chance of buying it.

Clever, those merchants.

That botheres me.
Teas should be like wine - "appellacion d' origine controlee", name and a
year. Otherwise - too much fraud possibilities. I need to call We Jia Bao
about this. he is a former field geologist himself, he will understand

I'm not sure about this. Control could bring the whole industry into the
middling range. That is, you can't get great unless you're willing to
sometimes get lousy. Know what I mean? It's the thrill of the hunt.


Sasha.

"Alex Chaihorsky" writes:

I have not tried Dai bamboo yet, I am waiting for the right moment.

The moment came today. Dai bamboo 1996 is a good tea but nothing
special., if you ask me. May be it requires a more experienced
drinker, may be cooler than 180 water.

Yes, I think it prefers cooler water: 170, maybe even 160F.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Alex Chaihorsky" writes:

I have not tried Dai bamboo yet, I am waiting for the right moment.

The moment came today. Dai bamboo 1996 is a good tea but nothing
special., if you ask me. May be it requires a more experienced
drinker, may be cooler than 180 water.

Yes, I think it prefers cooler water: 170, maybe even 160F.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

The problem lies with you, Sasha, not with the Dai Bamboo. I'm going to
brew
up some right now. Seriously, there is the issue of great differences from
batch to batch and cake to cake as Mike described in a previous post. You
might be the victim of that kind of thing. Mine piece really is lovely.
(Don't even go there.)

Can you, please, give me more advice on how to brew Dai bamboo? Just more
detailed instructions?

I'm not sure about this. Control could bring the whole industry into the
middling range. That is, you can't get great unless you're willing to
sometimes get lousy. Know what I mean? It's the thrill of the hunt.

As a true Conservative of a "paleo" persuasion that would firmly vote
Democratic this year I have to be ashamed of my calls for control of tea
labelling.
But some time ago I studied the history of French wine labelling and found
it to be the very reason how small French vineyards were able to survive and
preserve their quality standards. If a farmer or a small factory will have
law protect their unique logo or name of the product, they have an interest
to maintain the quality. If not - all bets are off and the largest shark
wins the markets with mediocre products.
That would also allow them to resist the pressure of traders who treat the
producers like cattle and allow producers to get better share of the
profits. making a producer rich is more in our, consumer, interests than
making a trader rich.

Sasha.

The problem lies with you, Sasha, not with the Dai Bamboo. I'm going to
brew
up some right now. Seriously, there is the issue of great differences from
batch to batch and cake to cake as Mike described in a previous post. You
might be the victim of that kind of thing. Mine piece really is lovely.
(Don't even go there.)

Can you, please, give me more advice on how to brew Dai bamboo? Just more
detailed instructions?

I'm not sure about this. Control could bring the whole industry into the
middling range. That is, you can't get great unless you're willing to
sometimes get lousy. Know what I mean? It's the thrill of the hunt.

As a true Conservative of a "paleo" persuasion that would firmly vote
Democratic this year I have to be ashamed of my calls for control of tea
labelling.
But some time ago I studied the history of French wine labelling and found
it to be the very reason how small French vineyards were able to survive and
preserve their quality standards. If a farmer or a small factory will have
law protect their unique logo or name of the product, they have an interest
to maintain the quality. If not - all bets are off and the largest shark
wins the markets with mediocre products.
That would also allow them to resist the pressure of traders who treat the
producers like cattle and allow producers to get better share of the
profits. making a producer rich is more in our, consumer, interests than
making a trader rich.

Sasha.

"Alex Chaihorsky" writes:

The problem lies with you, Sasha, not with the Dai Bamboo. I'm
going to brew up some right now. Seriously, there is the issue of
great differences from batch to batch and cake to cake as Mike
described in a previous post. You might be the victim of that kind
of thing. Mine piece really is lovely. (Don't even go there.)

Can you, please, give me more advice on how to brew Dai bamboo? Just more
detailed instructions?

I just looked over my notes, and it turns out I've enjoyed this tea
brewed over an *extremely* wide range of temperatures: from 140F to
boiling. In my experience, it does well big-pot, not gongfu, style,
say 4g of leaf to 8 ounces water. I had very good results at 160F,
with the first steep at 4 minutes and increasing steep times by 50%
each successive steep. I also had good results with boiling water,
starting at 2 minutes and increasing as above.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Alex Chaihorsky" writes:

The problem lies with you, Sasha, not with the Dai Bamboo. I'm
going to brew up some right now. Seriously, there is the issue of
great differences from batch to batch and cake to cake as Mike
described in a previous post. You might be the victim of that kind
of thing. Mine piece really is lovely. (Don't even go there.)

Can you, please, give me more advice on how to brew Dai bamboo? Just more
detailed instructions?

I just looked over my notes, and it turns out I've enjoyed this tea
brewed over an *extremely* wide range of temperatures: from 140F to
boiling. In my experience, it does well big-pot, not gongfu, style,
say 4g of leaf to 8 ounces water. I had very good results at 160F,
with the first steep at 4 minutes and increasing steep times by 50%
each successive steep. I also had good results with boiling water,
starting at 2 minutes and increasing as above.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Fangcha - 1999 Not too impressed. May be I am too green and inexperienced
myself and I should try sometime later.

I enjoy mine, but against the Menhai Beengcha 1999, it seems a bit weak.
Haven't tried it in months. I'll have another go.

I got back to Fangcha recently and I have to say that lowering the
temperature and tasting it constantly did the trick.
It awoke my army experiences in my memory, so I called it a "soldier's
tea" - it is straightforward with a threat to get violent if you step over
the line, as a true soldier should. It also has that "tank" smell - the
smell of squashed grass, sap from splintered tree trunks, raw earth clinging
to the tracks and sharp scent of used shells seeping from inside. I think I
should try the older Fangcha - I think Dave has one from 1991 for the same
price.

I bought some 10 years old green puerh "Yunnan toucha" from Imperial Court
in SF and Roy showed me a good way to brew it in gaiwan rather than in
chahu. I like this method because you can easily see the color saturation
and aquire the feeling for the brewing process rather fast. This tea is very
subtle in taste, but quite a symphony of the aftertaste, that lasted for
hours. I was very surprised how well it agrees with Marlboro. I do not smoke
often, but once in a while enjoy a cigarette or two. I had a smoke an hour
after the tea and it was pleasant and strong experience. 120 g, $7.00

Another tea I bought this time was 15 years old green puerh "Bamboo tea" -
paper-wrapped tablets in bamboo cylinder. It was nice but I think Dave's Dai
Bamboo tea is way better. Approx. 250g $20.00 This tea also has a "black"
puerh variety.

Sasha.

Alex y.com10/1/04


snip snip snip

Another tea I bought this time was 15 years old green puerh "Bamboo tea" -
paper-wrapped tablets in bamboo cylinder. It was nice but I think Dave's Dai
Bamboo tea is way better. Approx. 250g $20.00 This tea also has a "black"
puerh variety.

Would you kindly elaborate further on the taste and style of the ITC bamboo
cylindered green pu-erh tablets. Some of us will be quite curious. Thanks,
Sasha.

On the 1999 Feng you mentioned from Silk Road Teas, the 1991 is not as
consistantly good. You bought well.

Michael

Michael,

This weekend I am planning to brew Dai Nationality Bamboo, Mini Menghai and
ITC green "Bamboo tea" at once to compare them and to better map them inside
my brain.
As of now I still have trouble "recalling" them in my RAM. That means to me
that I have not tasted them well enough. And it also means that these are
very complex teas because I can easily recall almost any oolong I tasted in
the past two-three years.

One thing I can say right away about ITC green "Bamboo Tea" its a wonderful
tea to travel with. The bamboo cylinder is large enough to hold 250g of tea
tablets and small enough to be easily put in a briefcase or even a jacket
pocket. Each tablet has a half-break-off groove and is very easy to handle.
The bamboo cylinder closes very tight and should provide enough of
protection against external smells without stopping the fermentation
process.

Sasha.


"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
Alex y.com10/1/04


snip snip snip

Another tea I bought this time was 15 years old green puerh "Bamboo
tea" -
paper-wrapped tablets in bamboo cylinder. It was nice but I think Dave's
Dai
Bamboo tea is way better. Approx. 250g $20.00 This tea also has a "black"
puerh variety.

Would you kindly elaborate further on the taste and style of the ITC
bamboo
cylindered green pu-erh tablets. Some of us will be quite curious. Thanks,
Sasha.

One thing I have to say - it is much more difficult to distinguish between
green puerhs than between black puerhs, let alone oolongs.
My overall feeling - one cannot really go wrong with green puerhs if one
brews them right. Among the ones I tasted, Dai Nationality Bamboo appears to
be ahead of others, but not at all by a large margin. Fangcha probably
follows and Menghai takes the third place. ITC Bamboo and another ITC green
tablet tuocha are right behind. But in general - the difference is much more
settle than between other types of tea including black puerhs.
I think that this is because the tastes of green puerhs are not as strong.
The way I brew them is using 160 progressing by the 6-7th brew to 190
temperatures and 1-2 minutes steep time. The taste is very complex, the
aftertaste is even more, but the "obvious", superficial taste that is so
pronounced in black teas and "obvious", scent that is so bright in oolongs
are not as obvious with green puerhs.

Fangcha, that I did not like at first (I overcooked it badly) is probably
the most pronounced in terms of taste. I also think that it may be brewed
many different ways with quite different results. I was told that Fangcha
1991 is not as consistently good as the one I tasted - 1999, so can anyone
tell me where can I get more different Fangchas?

Sasha

"Alex Chaihorsky" wrote in message
news
Michael,

This weekend I am planning to brew Dai Nationality Bamboo, Mini Menghai
and ITC green "Bamboo tea" at once to compare them and to better map them
inside my brain.
As of now I still have trouble "recalling" them in my RAM. That means to
me that I have not tasted them well enough. And it also means that these
are very complex teas because I can easily recall almost any oolong I
tasted in the past two-three years.

One thing I can say right away about ITC green "Bamboo Tea" its a
wonderful tea to travel with. The bamboo cylinder is large enough to hold
250g of tea tablets and small enough to be easily put in a briefcase or
even a jacket pocket. Each tablet has a half-break-off groove and is very
easy to handle. The bamboo cylinder closes very tight and should provide
enough of protection against external smells without stopping the
fermentation process.

Sasha.


"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
Alex y.com10/1/04


snip snip snip

Another tea I bought this time was 15 years old green puerh "Bamboo
tea" -
paper-wrapped tablets in bamboo cylinder. It was nice but I think Dave's
Dai
Bamboo tea is way better. Approx. 250g $20.00 This tea also has a
"black"
puerh variety.

Would you kindly elaborate further on the taste and style of the ITC
bamboo
cylindered green pu-erh tablets. Some of us will be quite curious.
Thanks,
Sasha.

Sashsa,

Just a note, I know that many here in the group brew green puer using
lower temperatures similar to what you would use with a regular green
tea. Even Roy recommends it as it is more pleasing to the American
palette. However, and I have confirmed this repeatedly, in China they
do use boiling water for Greens. I think it stems from using boiling
water for safety reasons, nonetheless they use it still. Water just
off the boil for greens and a full rolling boil for blacks.

I too started with lower temps, but then as I learned a bit I started
using boiling water. The trick is very short steeps. Once you fill
your pot it is done by the time you set down your kettle. Maybe 3-6
seconds for the first few steeps.




On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 06:27:38 GMT, "Alex Chaihorsky"
cast caution to the wind and posted:

One thing I have to say - it is much more difficult to distinguish between
green puerhs than between black puerhs, let alone oolongs.
My overall feeling - one cannot really go wrong with green puerhs if one
brews them right. Among the ones I tasted, Dai Nationality Bamboo appears to
be ahead of others, but not at all by a large margin. Fangcha probably
follows and Menghai takes the third place. ITC Bamboo and another ITC green
tablet tuocha are right behind. But in general - the difference is much more
settle than between other types of tea including black puerhs.
I think that this is because the tastes of green puerhs are not as strong.
The way I brew them is using 160 progressing by the 6-7th brew to 190
temperatures and 1-2 minutes steep time. The taste is very complex, the
aftertaste is even more, but the "obvious", superficial taste that is so
pronounced in black teas and "obvious", scent that is so bright in oolongs
are not as obvious with green puerhs.

Fangcha, that I did not like at first (I overcooked it badly) is probably
the most pronounced in terms of taste. I also think that it may be brewed
many different ways with quite different results. I was told that Fangcha
1991 is not as consistently good as the one I tasted - 1999, so can anyone
tell me where can I get more different Fangchas?

Sasha

"Alex Chaihorsky" wrote in message
news
Michael,

This weekend I am planning to brew Dai Nationality Bamboo, Mini Menghai
and ITC green "Bamboo tea" at once to compare them and to better map them
inside my brain.
As of now I still have trouble "recalling" them in my RAM. That means to
me that I have not tasted them well enough. And it also means that these
are very complex teas because I can easily recall almost any oolong I
tasted in the past two-three years.

One thing I can say right away about ITC green "Bamboo Tea" its a
wonderful tea to travel with. The bamboo cylinder is large enough to hold
250g of tea tablets and small enough to be easily put in a briefcase or
even a jacket pocket. Each tablet has a half-break-off groove and is very
easy to handle. The bamboo cylinder closes very tight and should provide
enough of protection against external smells without stopping the
fermentation process.

Sasha.


"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
Alex y.com10/1/04


snip snip snip

Another tea I bought this time was 15 years old green puerh "Bamboo
tea" -
paper-wrapped tablets in bamboo cylinder. It was nice but I think Dave's
Dai
Bamboo tea is way better. Approx. 250g $20.00 This tea also has a
"black"
puerh variety.

Would you kindly elaborate further on the taste and style of the ITC
bamboo
cylindered green pu-erh tablets. Some of us will be quite curious.
Thanks,
Sasha.





Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply