thanks in advance for your help
i have a new airpot and the instructions say to clean the mineral deposts out
with citric acid every 3 months. where do i find citric acid? will white
vinegar work just as well? (I know where to get white vinegar ;-) )

White vinegar will work fine. Many supermarkets in the US and Canada also
sell a solution for cleaning teapots and other items that build up mineral
deposits.
"Prssnblu" wrote in message
...
thanks in advance for your help
i have a new airpot and the instructions say to clean the mineral deposts
out
with citric acid every 3 months. where do i find citric acid? will white
vinegar work just as well? (I know where to get white vinegar ;-) )

White vinegar will work fine. Many supermarkets in the US and Canada also
sell a solution for cleaning teapots and other items that build up mineral
deposits.
"Prssnblu" wrote in message
...
thanks in advance for your help
i have a new airpot and the instructions say to clean the mineral deposts
out
with citric acid every 3 months. where do i find citric acid? will white
vinegar work just as well? (I know where to get white vinegar ;-) )

where do i find citric acid? will white
vinegar work just as well? (I know where to get white vinegar ;-) )

White vinegar will work fine. Many supermarkets in the US and Canada also
sell a solution for cleaning teapots and other items that build up mineral
deposits.

Citric acid is actually especially good for chelating (binding and
solubilizing) water scale, better than vinegar. TSP (trisodium phosphate) is
much better still, and readily available at hardware stores. Wash it out
throughly afterward - it's not particularly toxic or anything, but you might
not like the taste! And keep out of eyes: it's strongly alkaline.

In case this is useful to anyone... Removing tea stains from porcelain with
warm, dilute chlorine bleach is optimal. There's some specific chemistry
that makes this especially effective on tannin films. If you worry about
residues, just brew a little weak tea in the pot afterward, and the same
reaction will turn any residual bleach into salt. (Tea is likewise good for
removing excess iodine taste from purified camping water.)

If you want to use TSP on porcelain or glass, though - don't! It's such a
good chelator that it actually etches glass and ceramics. Instead, use
concentrated dishwasher detergent. It contains the same kind of goodies, but
also powdered silica just to counter that reaction. I occasionally remove
scale films from abused antique glassware by simmering for an hour in a
potful of water with half a cup of dishwasher powder, and it works pretty
well.

BTW, toothpaste is a dandy cleaner for valuable ceramics, since the abrasive
in it is, by design, softer than most ceramics. But the flavor may be hard
to remove from a porous pot, so I'd be careful on that front. At least start
by thoroughly water-soaking the pot so that less goop is absorbed. I just
scrub new pots with a rough sponge (no soap), simmer them in cheap green tea
for an hour or so, and wash in plain water. That tends to remove any clay
taste and other things I don't want to know about, and leaves them ready to
season.

-DM

where do i find citric acid? will white
vinegar work just as well? (I know where to get white vinegar ;-) )

White vinegar will work fine. Many supermarkets in the US and Canada also
sell a solution for cleaning teapots and other items that build up mineral
deposits.

Citric acid is actually especially good for chelating (binding and
solubilizing) water scale, better than vinegar. TSP (trisodium phosphate) is
much better still, and readily available at hardware stores. Wash it out
throughly afterward - it's not particularly toxic or anything, but you might
not like the taste! And keep out of eyes: it's strongly alkaline.

In case this is useful to anyone... Removing tea stains from porcelain with
warm, dilute chlorine bleach is optimal. There's some specific chemistry
that makes this especially effective on tannin films. If you worry about
residues, just brew a little weak tea in the pot afterward, and the same
reaction will turn any residual bleach into salt. (Tea is likewise good for
removing excess iodine taste from purified camping water.)

If you want to use TSP on porcelain or glass, though - don't! It's such a
good chelator that it actually etches glass and ceramics. Instead, use
concentrated dishwasher detergent. It contains the same kind of goodies, but
also powdered silica just to counter that reaction. I occasionally remove
scale films from abused antique glassware by simmering for an hour in a
potful of water with half a cup of dishwasher powder, and it works pretty
well.

BTW, toothpaste is a dandy cleaner for valuable ceramics, since the abrasive
in it is, by design, softer than most ceramics. But the flavor may be hard
to remove from a porous pot, so I'd be careful on that front. At least start
by thoroughly water-soaking the pot so that less goop is absorbed. I just
scrub new pots with a rough sponge (no soap), simmer them in cheap green tea
for an hour or so, and wash in plain water. That tends to remove any clay
taste and other things I don't want to know about, and leaves them ready to
season.

-DM

where do i find citric acid?

Any citrus juice (lemon, especially.)

will white vinegar work just as well?

That's acetic acid, different chemical.

If you worry about
residues, just brew a little weak tea in the pot afterward, and the same
reaction will turn any residual bleach into salt.

Ok, I'm a little confused. I could be wrong, but aren't tannins acidic? I know
bleach certainly is. So when an acid and an acid react, a precipitate,
especially a salt, usually doesn't form. You get that sort of end product from
an acid-base reaction, right?

where do i find citric acid?

Any citrus juice (lemon, especially.)

will white vinegar work just as well?

That's acetic acid, different chemical.

If you worry about
residues, just brew a little weak tea in the pot afterward, and the same
reaction will turn any residual bleach into salt.

Ok, I'm a little confused. I could be wrong, but aren't tannins acidic? I know
bleach certainly is. So when an acid and an acid react, a precipitate,
especially a salt, usually doesn't form. You get that sort of end product from
an acid-base reaction, right?

Subject: need help cleaning my new airpot
From: "Dog Ma 1"

snip entire post

Damn. Isn't it great to have a real scientist here to explain this stuff? I
didn't know most of that.

Thanks, DM.

Joe

Subject: need help cleaning my new airpot
From: "Dog Ma 1"

snip entire post

Damn. Isn't it great to have a real scientist here to explain this stuff? I
didn't know most of that.

Thanks, DM.

Joe

Nerdy post alert...


KeemunBLK wrote:
If you worry about
residues, just brew a little weak tea in the pot afterward, and the same
reaction will turn any residual bleach into salt.

Ok, I'm a little confused. I could be wrong, but aren't tannins acidic? I
know
bleach certainly is. So when an acid and an acid react, a precipitate,
especially a salt, usually doesn't form. You get that sort of end product
from
an acid-base reaction, right?

"Acid" means several things to a chemist, who will understand the relevant
usage from context. Lay-people may be misled. Inorganic acids like sulfuric
and nitric are highly ionized in water, in some cases dissolve metals or
fingers, etc. With a few exceptions, organic acids are only slightly ionized
in water, and not strongly corrosive. They are still technically
(Bronsted-Lowry) acids because they have a proton more readily solvated than
those on water. Common examples are citric and ascorbic in fruit, oxalic in
spinach, acetic in vinegar. The first three also happen to be good
"chelating agents" - they have extra dangly bits that help bind metal salts,
so they remove lime scale better than other weak acids.

Tannins are "acids" because they have a slightly ionizable phenolic proton.
But they aren't really acidic in the everyday sense; just enough to be a
little extra soluble in water that is alkaline. When ionized, they are also
more easily oxidized into things that are very soluble in water. So alkaline
oxidants like laundry bleach are great for removing tea stains. And tea is
great for neutralizing excess bleach in a teapot.

Perhaps there's a bit of confusion between removing lime scale from kettles
and removing tea stains from cups; apologies if I've added to it.

-DM

Nerdy post alert...


KeemunBLK wrote:
If you worry about
residues, just brew a little weak tea in the pot afterward, and the same
reaction will turn any residual bleach into salt.

Ok, I'm a little confused. I could be wrong, but aren't tannins acidic? I
know
bleach certainly is. So when an acid and an acid react, a precipitate,
especially a salt, usually doesn't form. You get that sort of end product
from
an acid-base reaction, right?

"Acid" means several things to a chemist, who will understand the relevant
usage from context. Lay-people may be misled. Inorganic acids like sulfuric
and nitric are highly ionized in water, in some cases dissolve metals or
fingers, etc. With a few exceptions, organic acids are only slightly ionized
in water, and not strongly corrosive. They are still technically
(Bronsted-Lowry) acids because they have a proton more readily solvated than
those on water. Common examples are citric and ascorbic in fruit, oxalic in
spinach, acetic in vinegar. The first three also happen to be good
"chelating agents" - they have extra dangly bits that help bind metal salts,
so they remove lime scale better than other weak acids.

Tannins are "acids" because they have a slightly ionizable phenolic proton.
But they aren't really acidic in the everyday sense; just enough to be a
little extra soluble in water that is alkaline. When ionized, they are also
more easily oxidized into things that are very soluble in water. So alkaline
oxidants like laundry bleach are great for removing tea stains. And tea is
great for neutralizing excess bleach in a teapot.

Perhaps there's a bit of confusion between removing lime scale from kettles
and removing tea stains from cups; apologies if I've added to it.

-DM

"Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam) writes:

Nerdy post alert...

[...acids inorganic and organic...]

And tea is great for neutralizing excess bleach in a teapot.

This is interesting, but I still find myself reluctant to drink bleach.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam) writes:

Nerdy post alert...

[...acids inorganic and organic...]

And tea is great for neutralizing excess bleach in a teapot.

This is interesting, but I still find myself reluctant to drink bleach.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Bleach is a base. I know this could've been inferred from Dog Ma's
excellent post, but I thought I'd chime in.

Drinking some Harmutty Assam that was on sale a few weeks ago at
Specialteas. Mmmm.....Love Assams....


Melinda



(KeemunBLK) wrote in message ...
where do i find citric acid?

Any citrus juice (lemon, especially.)

will white vinegar work just as well?

That's acetic acid, different chemical.

If you worry about
residues, just brew a little weak tea in the pot afterward, and the same
reaction will turn any residual bleach into salt.

Ok, I'm a little confused. I could be wrong, but aren't tannins acidic? I know
bleach certainly is. So when an acid and an acid react, a precipitate,
especially a salt, usually doesn't form. You get that sort of end product from
an acid-base reaction, right?

Bleach is a base. I know this could've been inferred from Dog Ma's
excellent post, but I thought I'd chime in.

Drinking some Harmutty Assam that was on sale a few weeks ago at
Specialteas. Mmmm.....Love Assams....


Melinda



(KeemunBLK) wrote in message ...
where do i find citric acid?

Any citrus juice (lemon, especially.)

will white vinegar work just as well?

That's acetic acid, different chemical.

If you worry about
residues, just brew a little weak tea in the pot afterward, and the same
reaction will turn any residual bleach into salt.

Ok, I'm a little confused. I could be wrong, but aren't tannins acidic? I know
bleach certainly is. So when an acid and an acid react, a precipitate,
especially a salt, usually doesn't form. You get that sort of end product from
an acid-base reaction, right?