Hello,

I'm new to this newsgroup and to the world of fine teas in general and have
a few questions. A couple of days ago when I was shopping in my local Asian
supermarket, I stopped by the housewares section and saw two teapots that
looked like they were yixing teapots. They were hidden behind some Japanese
iron teapots but these were clay ones and had Chinese chops on the bottom.
There was a plain one for about $25 and one with a dragon theme design for
$35.

My question is, what are the chances that these are made from real yixing
clay? Are lower quality yixing teapots common enough that they might show
up in an Asian supermarket? If they are made from some other type of clay,
would they retain the tea flavor and become seasoned like a yixing one? I
can't really ask anyone there about them since a) my Chinese isn't good
enough to ask the right questions and b) if you've ever been in an Asian
supermarket, you know customer service isn't their strong suit. Is it worth
it for a beginner to take a chance and try one out?

Alan

In general you'll never be sure if it is Yixing. You'll always have
to take somebody's word for it. I'd look for the signature purple
pots with chop marks even though other colors are okay. In fact any
display of Yixing should have more than one color. Factory Yixing
isn't expensive while artizan pieces are let the buyer beware. Learn
the Chinese characters for Yixing. In the stores the display items
will come in original shipping box. Yixing is the clay and the pot
almost any style. An excellent source for Yixing is Museum shops.
Upscale trendy department stores sell Yixing and talk to the buyer. I
personally like teapots that say make tea and not one that says look
where I came from. I'd spend the money to buy a Yixing Brown Betty.
You can expect to get a cheap Yixing pot for the prices you mentioned.

Jim


"abl" wrote in message thlink.net...
Hello,

I'm new to this newsgroup and to the world of fine teas in general and have
a few questions. A couple of days ago when I was shopping in my local Asian
supermarket, I stopped by the housewares section and saw two teapots that
looked like they were yixing teapots. They were hidden behind some Japanese
iron teapots but these were clay ones and had Chinese chops on the bottom.
There was a plain one for about $25 and one with a dragon theme design for
$35.

My question is, what are the chances that these are made from real yixing
clay? Are lower quality yixing teapots common enough that they might show
up in an Asian supermarket? If they are made from some other type of clay,
would they retain the tea flavor and become seasoned like a yixing one? I
can't really ask anyone there about them since a) my Chinese isn't good
enough to ask the right questions and b) if you've ever been in an Asian
supermarket, you know customer service isn't their strong suit. Is it worth
it for a beginner to take a chance and try one out?

Alan

Is it worth
it for a beginner to take a chance and try one out?


I've got a couple of authentic yixings from museum shop sales, several
cheaper versions (not "fakes"; just molded, thin-wall porous stoneware from
whatever factory) from malls and Chinese kitchen shops, several gorgeous
paper-thin pots from Japan, and the usual selection of German porcelain,
English stoneware, American schlock. (Still looking for a Fiestaware I can
afford in a colour I like.) Not to mention the single-cup gadgets. Needless
to say, I'm in complete control of this apparent addiction.

IMO, there's a vast difference in finish and artistry with the top-drawer
merchandise, but nil difference in performance. The big split is glazed
(which will season, if you like a UK-style interior crust of polymerized
tannins) vs. porous (seasoning critical, ongoing, affects taste). There's
also a huge effect of thermal mass; clunky pots require a good preheat (for
black teas) where thin walls take little from the brew.

Yixing and any other fine clay high-fired to a nice ringing chime are all
about the same, IMO - but few outside of China make anything like that.
Cheaper clays, with more "grog" and less well prepared before casting or
pressing, are much more porous, duller in tone when rapped, and take longer
to season. -Just takes more gunk to clog those pores.

Beyond that, to me, it's aesthetics rather than eyes-shut brewing
performance. I must say that I do admire a really nice slip-glazed or
hand-buffed finish, but I can't usually justify the $50 or more to get it.
I've never bought one of those real artworks, partly because I like to use
all my teapots without too much worry.

I used to make my own ceramics, and made some dandy yixing-style cups with
walls less than 2 mm thick. With a high fire, not even too fragile. But I'd
never try to make a pot! On the clay front, anyone who's done a but of
wheel-throwing will tell you that slip-casting and mold pressing rarely give
the same properties in the finished product achieved naturally (but slowly)
with wheel-throwing and hand-building. Again, though, that's a detail.
Seasoned properly, any ol' clay pot will work fine.

To technique: magic is fun, and personal ritual is important. Me, I take an
ounce of cheap, strong but neutral tea (say a supermarket keemun), boil it
up with the virgin pot in a small saucepan, let cool overnight, rinse clean
and use. Then it takes only a couple of brews to get some kind of
consistency.

-DM

"Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam) wrote in message ...
(Still looking for a Fiestaware I can afford in a colour I like.)

Flea Market Finds with the Kovells did a Fiestaware teapot segment
recently. Prices sky high. I remember a 50's yellow pot for $300
about the size of three cups. My goal this year buy some Russian
teapots.

Jim

Flea Market Finds with the Kovells did a Fiestaware teapot segment
recently. Prices sky high. I remember a 50's yellow pot for $300
about the size of three cups. My goal this year buy some Russian
teapots.

Jim


Aagh - $300 for a teapot! Bit rich for my blood. I see Fiestaware copies in
the discount stores, but only in grotty colours.

On a side note, a friend's mother was going to get rid of some nice orange
pieces from her collection because she'd been warned that the glaze was made
with uranium. I said that this was silly; there's uranium glass everywhere,
and it's not that "hot" anyway. I brought over a geiger counter, and by
golly, it buzzed like mad! I said that that was still nothing on a
radium-dial watch, so she kept them. Too bad - she might have given them to
me for safe disposal.

-DM

Space Cowboy wrote:
In general you'll never be sure if it is Yixing.

Then do I care?

(A question of asthetics.)

Rick.

I want to say one more thing about this type of post. Only someone
who has been drinking tea a long time could let the thoughts and ideas
flow from fingers to keyboard. I recognize the style because it is
akin to mine where talking about tea is effortless and derived more
from experience than research. There are only a few other people in
this ng with this kind of acumen. It's not even important who I think
they are because you can find out for yourself. You'll notice their
discussions about tea are generalities which is more interesting than
any specifics like where they buy it or many posts in this ng where it
a hodgepodge of copy and paste from any previous threads on the
subject by some wannabee. All I can say is look at the information in
this post which should be a lot more helpfull than somebody telling
you where to buy it. I don't have any trouble with specifics if it is
helpfull for the generality. You'll learn alot more about tea by
doing it yourself than taking my word for it. This high speed
internet has got me working overtime. I can't sleep.

Jim

"Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam) wrote in message ...
Is it worth
it for a beginner to take a chance and try one out?


I've got a couple of authentic yixings from museum shop sales, several
cheaper versions (not "fakes"; just molded, thin-wall porous stoneware from
whatever factory) from malls and Chinese kitchen shops, several gorgeous
paper-thin pots from Japan, and the usual selection of German porcelain,
English stoneware, American schlock. (Still looking for a Fiestaware I can
afford in a colour I like.) Not to mention the single-cup gadgets. Needless
to say, I'm in complete control of this apparent addiction.

IMO, there's a vast difference in finish and artistry with the top-drawer
merchandise, but nil difference in performance. The big split is glazed
(which will season, if you like a UK-style interior crust of polymerized
tannins) vs. porous (seasoning critical, ongoing, affects taste). There's
also a huge effect of thermal mass; clunky pots require a good preheat (for
black teas) where thin walls take little from the brew.

Yixing and any other fine clay high-fired to a nice ringing chime are all
about the same, IMO - but few outside of China make anything like that.
Cheaper clays, with more "grog" and less well prepared before casting or
pressing, are much more porous, duller in tone when rapped, and take longer
to season. -Just takes more gunk to clog those pores.

Beyond that, to me, it's aesthetics rather than eyes-shut brewing
performance. I must say that I do admire a really nice slip-glazed or
hand-buffed finish, but I can't usually justify the $50 or more to get it.
I've never bought one of those real artworks, partly because I like to use
all my teapots without too much worry.

I used to make my own ceramics, and made some dandy yixing-style cups with
walls less than 2 mm thick. With a high fire, not even too fragile. But I'd
never try to make a pot! On the clay front, anyone who's done a but of
wheel-throwing will tell you that slip-casting and mold pressing rarely give
the same properties in the finished product achieved naturally (but slowly)
with wheel-throwing and hand-building. Again, though, that's a detail.
Seasoned properly, any ol' clay pot will work fine.

To technique: magic is fun, and personal ritual is important. Me, I take an
ounce of cheap, strong but neutral tea (say a supermarket keemun), boil it
up with the virgin pot in a small saucepan, let cool overnight, rinse clean
and use. Then it takes only a couple of brews to get some kind of
consistency.

-DM

In addition to having wisdom and knowledge of tea he has also never
demonstrated intolerance, conceit, or antagonism. Nor has he ever
resorted to theatrical name calling, flaming, or bashing. He has
always shared his knowledge and opinions without coming across as
"high and mighty".

Maybe your style is not as akin to his as you would like to think!



On 23 Jan 2004 08:55:45 -0800, (Space Cowboy)
wrote:

I want to say one more thing about this type of post. Only someone
who has been drinking tea a long time could let the thoughts and ideas
flow from fingers to keyboard. I recognize the style because it is
akin to mine where talking about tea is effortless and derived more
from experience than research. There are only a few other people in
this ng with this kind of acumen. It's not even important who I think
they are because you can find out for yourself. You'll notice their
discussions about tea are generalities which is more interesting than
any specifics like where they buy it or many posts in this ng where it
a hodgepodge of copy and paste from any previous threads on the
subject by some wannabee. All I can say is look at the information in
this post which should be a lot more helpfull than somebody telling
you where to buy it. I don't have any trouble with specifics if it is
helpfull for the generality. You'll learn alot more about tea by
doing it yourself than taking my word for it. This high speed
internet has got me working overtime. I can't sleep.

Jim

"Dog Ma 1" (reply w/o spam) wrote in message ...
Is it worth
it for a beginner to take a chance and try one out?


I've got a couple of authentic yixings from museum shop sales, several
cheaper versions (not "fakes"; just molded, thin-wall porous stoneware from
whatever factory) from malls and Chinese kitchen shops, several gorgeous
paper-thin pots from Japan, and the usual selection of German porcelain,
English stoneware, American schlock. (Still looking for a Fiestaware I can
afford in a colour I like.) Not to mention the single-cup gadgets. Needless
to say, I'm in complete control of this apparent addiction.

IMO, there's a vast difference in finish and artistry with the top-drawer
merchandise, but nil difference in performance. The big split is glazed
(which will season, if you like a UK-style interior crust of polymerized
tannins) vs. porous (seasoning critical, ongoing, affects taste). There's
also a huge effect of thermal mass; clunky pots require a good preheat (for
black teas) where thin walls take little from the brew.

Yixing and any other fine clay high-fired to a nice ringing chime are all
about the same, IMO - but few outside of China make anything like that.
Cheaper clays, with more "grog" and less well prepared before casting or
pressing, are much more porous, duller in tone when rapped, and take longer
to season. -Just takes more gunk to clog those pores.

Beyond that, to me, it's aesthetics rather than eyes-shut brewing
performance. I must say that I do admire a really nice slip-glazed or
hand-buffed finish, but I can't usually justify the $50 or more to get it.
I've never bought one of those real artworks, partly because I like to use
all my teapots without too much worry.

I used to make my own ceramics, and made some dandy yixing-style cups with
walls less than 2 mm thick. With a high fire, not even too fragile. But I'd
never try to make a pot! On the clay front, anyone who's done a but of
wheel-throwing will tell you that slip-casting and mold pressing rarely give
the same properties in the finished product achieved naturally (but slowly)
with wheel-throwing and hand-building. Again, though, that's a detail.
Seasoned properly, any ol' clay pot will work fine.

To technique: magic is fun, and personal ritual is important. Me, I take an
ounce of cheap, strong but neutral tea (say a supermarket keemun), boil it
up with the virgin pot in a small saucepan, let cool overnight, rinse clean
and use. Then it takes only a couple of brews to get some kind of
consistency.

-DM


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

snip

(Still looking for a Fiestaware I can afford in a colour I like.)

snip

http://www.restaurant-store.com/greyteapot.html

Here's a very attractive pearl grey color.

Aurora

Oh you're just ****ed because you can't buy anything from me and go
slobbering around in the ng giving personal testimonials about how
knowledgeable I am. Anyway I'm in a Celtic store this weekend and
came across a Brooke Bond label called Scottish Blend ($5/250g). It
says it was specifically formulated for the soft Scottish water and
only sold in Scotland (You know someone has connections where
everything is shipped in a trunk). It had a hinged cardboard lid which
exposed a slot to remove the teabags. The lid made a good seal when
closed. I wished more commercial tea was this way maybe even a slot
for loose tea. I thought it made a good enough brew with the
hardwater from the well so this will be my Scottish breakfast tea for
a while.

Jim


Mike Petro wrote in message . ..
In addition to having wisdom and knowledge of tea he has also never
demonstrated intolerance, conceit, or antagonism. Nor has he ever
resorted to theatrical name calling, flaming, or bashing. He has
always shared his knowledge and opinions without coming across as
"high and mighty".

Maybe your style is not as akin to his as you would like to think!



On 23 Jan 2004 08:55:45 -0800, (Space Cowboy)
wrote:

When someone attacks me on a personal level it does tend to **** me
off, and you made it personal by resorting to ridicule, name calling,
and personal insults etc.

All I did was respond with my honest opinion to some other poster who
specifically asked about a particular vendor, read the thread if you
dont remember. Just because I had experience with vendor XYZ does not
mean I am working for him in some sort of clandestine promotional
scheme. Many of us here have shared our experiences about various
sources. If you read the archives you will also see where I shared bad
experiences as well. Sharing our experience is part of what the Usenet
is all about. If you disagree with my opinion then I welcome yours. I
can accept a difference of opinion, but my opinion IS just as valid as
yours.

You have a lot of good stuff to offer, I have seen it in some of your
other posts However, there is no need to be so judgmental and
intolerant, and there is definitely no need to resort to juvenile
tactics like name calling etc.

Mike

On 26 Jan 2004 06:42:11 -0800, (Space Cowboy)
wrote:

Oh you're just ****ed because you can't buy anything from me and go
slobbering around in the ng giving personal testimonials about how
knowledgeable I am. Anyway I'm in a Celtic store this weekend and
came across a Brooke Bond label called Scottish Blend ($5/250g). It
says it was specifically formulated for the soft Scottish water and
only sold in Scotland (You know someone has connections where
everything is shipped in a trunk). It had a hinged cardboard lid which
exposed a slot to remove the teabags. The lid made a good seal when
closed. I wished more commercial tea was this way maybe even a slot
for loose tea. I thought it made a good enough brew with the
hardwater from the well so this will be my Scottish breakfast tea for
a while.

Jim


Mike Petro wrote in message . ..
In addition to having wisdom and knowledge of tea he has also never
demonstrated intolerance, conceit, or antagonism. Nor has he ever
resorted to theatrical name calling, flaming, or bashing. He has
always shared his knowledge and opinions without coming across as
"high and mighty".

Maybe your style is not as akin to his as you would like to think!



On 23 Jan 2004 08:55:45 -0800, (Space Cowboy)
wrote:


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

What should **** you off is the embedded businessman and bookseller.
I appointed myself the group's Curmudgeon years ago. If you read my
posts carefully if need be I let go specially crafted barbs to fit the
tone of the thread but I never badmouth your mama or talk about your
personal hygiene. If all you can offer is personal testimonials or
the line item details of your last WWW tea invoice then you have
nothing to say and would be better off in a Starbuck's group where the
communal expertise is directly proportional to the price of the coffee
and whether the barista knows your first name.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote in message . ..
When someone attacks me on a personal level it does tend to **** me
off, and you made it personal by resorting to ridicule, name calling,
and personal insults etc.

On 26 Jan 2004 06:42:11 -0800, (Space Cowboy)
wrote:
Oh you're just ****ed because you can't buy anything from me and go
slobbering around in the ng giving personal testimonials about how
knowledgeable I am.

Hmm, "self appointed Curmudgeon ", interesting choice of titles, I
wont argue.

Look Jim, I think you have taken 1 or 2 posts out of context with
disregard for my other posts over the last couple of years. If you
think that all I have ever contributed is what you stated below then I
sincerely doubt you have read many of my other posts.

In any event I may not be a wise old tea master but I am here to stay
so I guess we are going to have learn to live with each other. If you
will look past my occasional ignorance I will look past your
occasional grumpiness. If you are ever in southside Virginia look me
up and we can share a pot of silver needle puerh..... I suspect you
might enjoy it.

Speaking of tea, lets start a new thread, what's your take on Lapsang
Souchong? Elixer or mouthwash? From what I understand the Chinese
never touch the stuff. I find it to be quite relaxing at times, kicked
back with a good book on the weekend etc.


On 27 Jan 2004 07:45:10 -0800, (Space Cowboy)
wrote:

What should **** you off is the embedded businessman and bookseller.
I appointed myself the group's Curmudgeon years ago. If you read my
posts carefully if need be I let go specially crafted barbs to fit the
tone of the thread but I never badmouth your mama or talk about your
personal hygiene. If all you can offer is personal testimonials or
the line item details of your last WWW tea invoice then you have
nothing to say and would be better off in a Starbuck's group where the
communal expertise is directly proportional to the price of the coffee
and whether the barista knows your first name.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote in message . ..
When someone attacks me on a personal level it does tend to **** me
off, and you made it personal by resorting to ridicule, name calling,
and personal insults etc.


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

"Mike Petro" wrote in message
...
Speaking of tea, lets start a new thread, what's your take on Lapsang
Souchong? Elixer or mouthwash? From what I understand the Chinese
never touch the stuff. I find it to be quite relaxing at times, kicked
back with a good book on the weekend etc.

Most of the lapsangs I've tried have been a very lightly fermented base and
a lot of smoke - don't work well for me. I wondered how a smoked strong
Assam might taste, and added a little lapsang to a pot. Wonderful! I do it
all the time now, and if I could figure out how to maintain an even mix with
such different leaf shapes, I'd make a stock of the blen.

-DM

I though the modified header would generate a new thread. How does that
work, anyway?