I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

I don't know about upton, but I bought one from adagio that met those
criteria some years ago. I see they have an updated version, so I
don't know if they've made changes on the inside, but mine is metal.
It works pretty well still, though the temperature gauge is (perhaps
necessarily) not real specific, so you just have to play around with
it to see what temperature you like. At the time, that was the only
temperature-variable kettle I could find.

While intrepidly exploring the bowels of USENET on Sunday, September
07, 2008, Rainy rolled initiative and posted the following:

I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

As a resource, this topic was discussed in the thread "Any really good
automatic tea makers?" Given the title of the thread, it's not evident
that the discussion of kettles came up.

http://tinyurl.com/55ft9v

Also see the post by Natarajan Krishnaswami where the Digital Kettle
Pro gets a "hands on" review.

http://tinyurl.com/68znrc

--
Derek

Psychiatrists stay on your mind.

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

There are literally dozens of models available. Amazon has quite a few
and many have owner ratings. Epinions has a long list:

http://www.epinions.com/Electric_Ket...all-9688_brand

I just completed a fairly detailed search. I ended up ordering the
Digital Kettle Pro from Tea Treasures. It's scheduled to arrive
tomorrow. I'll post my impressions after I have a chance to use it
some.

On 8/20, Natarajan posted a nice review, after having just received
one. It was one of the reasons I bought one myself.

In my opinion, your $50 limit makes no sense. The difference between
$50 and $100 is only $10/year if you keep if for just 5 years. If the
$100 model has features that make your life easier, isn't that worth
$10/year to you? No-brainer to me.



My finalists we


1. Digital Kettle Pro, $90, Tea Treasures.

http://teatreasures.com/page/Tea-Sup...les/DPROKETTLE

Pros:
* Digital temp control: 104°F - boiling, +/- 3 degrees.
* Temperature hold: holds water at the temperature setting.
* Cordless
* Stainless steel
* 1.5 liter (50 oz, 6 cup) capacity
* Auto shutoff if it runs dry
* Alarm when water reaches temperature

Cons:
* 1,000 W (less than most)
* Expensive
* External water guage. The website says it has an external water
guage, but Nataranjan says it does not.

For me, this was the only real contender. The digital temp setting and
the temp hold are not available in any other product as fas as I know.
The ability to fill it up, set the temperature, and not have to be
right there the instant it's ready was easily worth the extra $30-40.


2. utiliTea, $49, Adagio

It's available from Adagio for $49:
http://www.adagio.com/teaware/utiliT...40172 f534474
and from Amazon for $50:
http://www.amazon.com/utiliTEA-Silve...0135056&sr=8-1

Pros:
* Variable temp control (~145°F to 212°F)
* Stainless steel
* Price

Cons:
* Temp control is analog, marking approximate
* No temp hold. Shuts off after reaching temp
* Details on Adagio are sketchy (like everything on Adagio)
* Only 30 oz (1 liter, 4 cups)

This was a distant second and the only other real contender for me.



3. AK16, $40, Upton Tea

http://www.uptontea.com/shopcart/ite...categoryID=196

Pros:
* Variable temp
* 1400 watts
* Stainless steel
* Price

Cons:
* Analog temp control
* No temp hold



4. Zojirushi, $115-$160

http://www.zojirushi.com/ourproducts...ctricpots.html

Pros:
* Variable temp control
* Large capacity (some up to 4 liters)
* Keep warm (like a thermos, not temp hold)

Cons:
* Temp control not continuous (3-4 settings)
* Price
* Typical Zogirushi overkill
* Ugly



5. T-Fal BF6520004 Vitesse

http://www.amazon.com/T-Fal-BF652000...0135056&sr=8-2

Pros:
* Capacity: 7 cups)
* Variable temp control

Cons:
* No markings on temp control
* One reviewer said there are really only 2 settings
* No temp hold



6. Bravetti Digital Kettle, $90

http://shopping.canoe.ca/shop/produc...d_3144271.html
http://www.shopping.com/xPP-electric_kettles--bravetti

Pros:
* Digital temp control
* 2 liter capacity
* 1500 watts
* Temp hold

Cons:
* Poor reviews: breaks easily, no run dry protection
* Price



7. Russell Hobbs Millenium

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Russell_Hobbs_Millenium__74194

The review sounded a lot like the Digital Kettle Pro, but I couldn't
find it anywhere for sale.



There are many others with excellent reviews that do not have my
required features.

"Controller falls back to warm setting automatically, to keep water
warm after boiling."

the description states it 'keeps water warm after boiling'.

It does not state it will keep the water at exactly the set
temperature.

am i missing something in the description ?

Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

There are literally dozens of models available. Amazon has quite a few
and many have owner ratings. Epinions has a long list:

http://www.epinions.com/Electric_Ket...all-9688_brand

I just completed a fairly detailed search. I ended up ordering the
Digital Kettle Pro from Tea Treasures. It's scheduled to arrive
tomorrow. I'll post my impressions after I have a chance to use it
some.

On 8/20, Natarajan posted a nice review, after having just received
one. It was one of the reasons I bought one myself.

In my opinion, your $50 limit makes no sense. The difference between
$50 and $100 is only $10/year if you keep if for just 5 years. If the
$100 model has features that make your life easier, isn't that worth
$10/year to you? No-brainer to me.

Yes but if you follow the same logic you can say that
a $1000 kettle used over 20 years is just $4/month. That's
the kind of silly thinking that left me pennyless and
having to settle for a $50 kettle. So you see that the
answer is already part of your question?




My finalists we


1. Digital Kettle Pro, $90, Tea Treasures.

http://teatreasures.com/page/Tea-Sup...les/DPROKETTLE

Pros:
* Digital temp control: 104�F - boiling, +/- 3 degrees.
* Temperature hold: holds water at the temperature setting.
* Cordless
* Stainless steel
* 1.5 liter (50 oz, 6 cup) capacity
* Auto shutoff if it runs dry
* Alarm when water reaches temperature

Cons:
* 1,000 W (less than most)
* Expensive
* External water guage. The website says it has an external water
guage, but Nataranjan says it does not.

For me, this was the only real contender. The digital temp setting and
the temp hold are not available in any other product as fas as I know.
The ability to fill it up, set the temperature, and not have to be
right there the instant it's ready was easily worth the extra $30-40.

I already have a Zojirushi and I suspect that hold temp
feature results in less-tasty tea.
Digital temp control is no better than
analog, the real issue is how accurate the thermostat
is, the Zoji I have cost $120 and is often listed at
around $140-150, so I think it would have thermostat
as good as kettles in sub-100 range, and it's not
terribly accurate, it can read 85 and then if you unplug
and plug it in again it will read 90, very often. So,
analog would be just fine for me as long as it's
accurate and consistent, but some people in
adagio UtiliTea reviews say that it's not consistent,
i.e. same setting will sometimes produce different
temp.

I don't want to pay more than $50 because I'm not
sure I will use it at all. I think tea from electrically
heated water won't taste the same/as good. Also
the reviews say that if you use less water, same
setting will produce higher temp.

My main concern is inconsistent heating at same
setting, because then I'd rather buy a $40-50
kettle without variable temp locally and use a timer
with it.

BTW Zojirushis look very nice, and they do temp
hold by heating. They only have one model that
_in addition_ works like a thermos, so that it
spends less energy to keep water at high temp.

The real problem with Zojis is that white and
green teas don't taste very good. I think because
of electric heating and slow heating.. Actually
blacks don't taste quite the same either.

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:11:58 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

"Controller falls back to warm setting automatically, to keep water
warm after boiling."

the description states it 'keeps water warm after boiling'.

It does not state it will keep the water at exactly the set
temperature.

am i missing something in the description ?

Well, I won't have my hands on one until tomorrow. After that, I'll
have better data.

The entire description is:

---------------------------------
Digital Kettle Pro makes heating water to your desired temperature so
easy! You can set the kettle to heat to a specific temperature so that
you can prepare teas with less than boiling water, like green and
white teas. Just set the temperature and it will keep it warm!

· Digital controller heats the water to your desired temperature ± 3%.
· Controller falls back to warm setting automatically, to keep water
warm after boiling.
· Access from 360 degrees for easy lifting and replacing the kettle on
its base.
· "No Water" protection turns the unit off if there is no water
remaining in the kettle.
· Concealed stainless steel heating base - easy to clean.
· 1000 Watts for fast boiling. It boils two cups in less than a
minute.
· 6 Cups (1.5 Liters) usable capacity
· Kettle made of quality stainless steel.
· Water gauge indicates the water level in the kettle.
---------------------------------

The last sentence in the first paragraph indicates to me that it will
hold the set temp. That's also what Natarajan said after testing one
personally.

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:22:42 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:



Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

There are literally dozens of models available. Amazon has quite a few
and many have owner ratings. Epinions has a long list:

http://www.epinions.com/Electric_Ket...all-9688_brand

I just completed a fairly detailed search. I ended up ordering the
Digital Kettle Pro from Tea Treasures. It's scheduled to arrive
tomorrow. I'll post my impressions after I have a chance to use it
some.

On 8/20, Natarajan posted a nice review, after having just received
one. It was one of the reasons I bought one myself.

In my opinion, your $50 limit makes no sense. The difference between
$50 and $100 is only $10/year if you keep if for just 5 years. If the
$100 model has features that make your life easier, isn't that worth
$10/year to you? No-brainer to me.

Yes but if you follow the same logic you can say that
a $1000 kettle used over 20 years is just $4/month. That's
the kind of silly thinking that left me pennyless and
having to settle for a $50 kettle. So you see that the
answer is already part of your question?

Questionable logic. Anything can be taken to a silly extreme. If your
self-control is so impaired that you bankrupted yourself buying the
top-of-the-line everything, then you probably can't even afford the
$50 unit. Or, if your time and convenience isn't worth the extra $50,
don't buy it. You know what your time is worth.

My finalists we


1. Digital Kettle Pro, $90, Tea Treasures.

http://teatreasures.com/page/Tea-Sup...les/DPROKETTLE

Pros:
* Digital temp control: 104?F - boiling, +/- 3 degrees.
* Temperature hold: holds water at the temperature setting.
* Cordless
* Stainless steel
* 1.5 liter (50 oz, 6 cup) capacity
* Auto shutoff if it runs dry
* Alarm when water reaches temperature

Cons:
* 1,000 W (less than most)
* Expensive
* External water guage. The website says it has an external water
guage, but Nataranjan says it does not.

For me, this was the only real contender. The digital temp setting and
the temp hold are not available in any other product as fas as I know.
The ability to fill it up, set the temperature, and not have to be
right there the instant it's ready was easily worth the extra $30-40.

I already have a Zojirushi and I suspect that hold temp
feature results in less-tasty tea.

More questionable logic. But, then, I think we'd had this debate
before. However, I'd give you the extra $50 if you could tell the
difference between tea brewed from water heated in a glass kettle and
used the instant it was warm and tea brewed from water heated in a
stainless kettle and left on warm for 10-15 minutes in a double-blind
test. I guess if you let it boil for 10-15 minutes, assuming you had
any water left, that would probablyt be detectable due to lack of
oxygen, but not just keeping it warm well below boiling.

Digital temp control is no better than
analog, the real issue is how accurate the thermostat
is,

That's not true. With the digital, you get an exact setting. With the
analog, you cannot be sure you set it to exactly the same place unless
it has places where it clicks into place.

the Zoji I have cost $120 and is often listed at
around $140-150, so I think it would have thermostat
as good as kettles in sub-100 range, and it's not
terribly accurate, it can read 85 and then if you unplug
and plug it in again it will read 90, very often. So,
analog would be just fine for me as long as it's
accurate and consistent, but some people in
adagio UtiliTea reviews say that it's not consistent,
i.e. same setting will sometimes produce different
temp.

I don't want to pay more than $50 because I'm not
sure I will use it at all.

So you're willing to "risk" $50, but not $51?

I think tea from electrically
heated water won't taste the same/as good.

Again, I'd wager you can't tell the difference in a double-blind test.

Also
the reviews say that if you use less water, same
setting will produce higher temp.

My main concern is inconsistent heating at same
setting, because then I'd rather buy a $40-50
kettle without variable temp locally and use a timer
with it.

BTW Zojirushis look very nice, and they do temp
hold by heating. They only have one model that
_in addition_ works like a thermos, so that it
spends less energy to keep water at high temp.

The real problem with Zojis is that white and
green teas don't taste very good. I think because
of electric heating and slow heating.. Actually
blacks don't taste quite the same either.

Yeah, I know you believe that the molecules somehow know where the
heat came from. They don't. Maybe if you heated the water under one of
those pyramid thingies from the 60s (or was it the 70s?) or hung some
crystals around or played some new age music.

Have you tried homeopathy techniques on tea? Maybe you could brew one
perfect cup using perfect spring water heated in a glass pot, etc.,
etc., ... Then, through a process of diluting and succussing, you can
have an endless source of perfect tea forever.

Just kidding. I tried to give you some information on tea kettles. If
it wasn't useful, I'm sorry. Good luck with your $50 kettle. I'll
report back on my $90 digital after tomorrow.

Thanks, Square Peg, for the info. I look forward to your report when
you have the heater in hand. Best, ~grasshopper

On Sep 7, 4:24*pm, Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:22:42 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:





Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

There are literally dozens of models available. Amazon has quite a few
and many have owner ratings. Epinions has a long list:

http://www.epinions.com/Electric_Ket...all-9688_brand

I just completed a fairly detailed search. I ended up ordering the
Digital Kettle Pro from Tea Treasures. It's scheduled to arrive
tomorrow. I'll post my impressions after I have a chance to use it
some.

On 8/20, Natarajan posted a nice review, after having just received
one. It was one of the reasons I bought one myself.

In my opinion, your $50 limit makes no sense. The difference between
$50 and $100 is only $10/year if you keep if for just 5 years. If the
$100 model has features that make your life easier, isn't that worth
$10/year to you? No-brainer to me.

Yes but if you follow the same logic you can say that
a $1000 kettle used over 20 years is just $4/month. That's
the kind of silly thinking that left me pennyless and
having to settle for a $50 kettle. So you see that the
answer is already part of your question?

Questionable logic. Anything can be taken to a silly extreme. If your
self-control is so impaired that you bankrupted yourself buying the
top-of-the-line everything, then you probably can't even afford the
$50 unit. Or, if your time and convenience isn't worth the extra $50,
don't buy it. You know what your time is worth.

Well, it's always a sliding scale. 9 times out of 10,
paying more will yield some advantage in
ruggedness, looks, features, etc. You have to
draw the line in the sand somewhere.




My finalists we

1. Digital Kettle Pro, $90, Tea Treasures.

http://teatreasures.com/page/Tea-Sup...-Tea-Kettles/D....

Pros:
* Digital temp control: 104?F - boiling, +/- 3 degrees.
* Temperature hold: holds water at the temperature setting.
* Cordless
* Stainless steel
* 1.5 liter (50 oz, 6 cup) capacity
* Auto shutoff if it runs dry
* Alarm when water reaches temperature

Cons:
* 1,000 W (less than most)
* Expensive
* External water guage. The website says it has an external water
guage, but Nataranjan says it does not.

For me, this was the only real contender. The digital temp setting and
the temp hold are not available in any other product as fas as I know.
The ability to fill it up, set the temperature, and not have to be
right there the instant it's ready was easily worth the extra $30-40.

I already have a Zojirushi and I suspect that hold temp
feature results in less-tasty tea.

More questionable logic. But, then, I think we'd had this debate
before. However, I'd give you the extra $50 if you could tell the
difference between tea brewed from water heated in a glass kettle and
used the instant it was warm and tea brewed from water heated in a
stainless kettle and left on warm for 10-15 minutes in a double-blind
test. I guess if you let it boil for 10-15 minutes, assuming you had
any water left, that would probablyt be detectable due to lack of
oxygen, but not just keeping it warm well below boiling.

Where are you? I don't want to spend $500 on travel
to win $50 in a blind test!


Digital temp control is no better than
analog, the real issue is how accurate the thermostat
is,

That's not true. With the digital, you get an exact setting. With the
analog, you cannot be sure you set it to exactly the same place unless
it has places where it clicks into place.

It's not exact with digital because it depends on
thermostat which likely isn't exact. Weakest
link in the chain and all that. I'd think that
far more inexactness is introduced by
thermostat than being 2mm off on the
analog dial, but that's just my opinion.


the Zoji I have cost $120 and is often listed at
around $140-150, so I think it would have thermostat
as good as kettles in sub-100 range, and it's not
terribly accurate, it can read 85 and then if you unplug
and plug it in again it will read 90, very often. So,
analog would be just fine for me as long as it's
accurate and consistent, but some people in
adagio UtiliTea reviews say that it's not consistent,
i.e. same setting will sometimes produce different
temp.

I don't want to pay more than $50 because I'm not
sure I will use it at all.

So you're willing to "risk" $50, but not $51?

Will the next question be something like
"you're willing to risk $51 but not $52??".
I'm hoping actually that the $40 one will
do. It sound like AK16 is the very similar
to the adagio kettle. In fact it's $50 and
then discounted to $38.


I think tea from electrically
heated water won't taste the same/as good.

Again, I'd wager you can't tell the difference in a double-blind test.

I could tell a huge difference with electric range
and Zoji pot. I would have preferred not being
able to, because it's far more convenient to
use Zoji pot and I paid $120 for it.

So, how do you explain HUGE difference
with *both* Zoji pot and electric range
when molecules are the same?




Also
the reviews say that if you use less water, same
setting will produce higher temp.

My main concern is inconsistent heating at same
setting, because then I'd rather buy a $40-50
kettle without variable temp locally and use a timer
with it.

BTW Zojirushis look very nice, and they do temp
hold by heating. They only have one model that
_in addition_ works like a thermos, so that it
spends less energy to keep water at high temp.

The real problem with Zojis is that white and
green teas don't taste very good. I think because
of electric heating and slow heating.. Actually
blacks don't taste quite the same either.

Yeah, I know you believe that the molecules somehow know where the
heat came from. They don't. Maybe if you heated the water under one of
those pyramid thingies from the 60s (or was it the 70s?) or hung some
crystals around or played some new age music.

Yet in food preparation it's a well known fact
that type of stove and material of the pan
will affect the taste. There's brick ovens,
pizza stones, copper pans, even though
"heat is the same".

Here's a quote from 'water encyclopedia' site:
Although water has the simple formula H2O, it is a complex chemical
solution. "Pure" water essentially is nonexistent in the natural
environment. Natural water, whether in the atmosphere, on the ground
surface, or under the ground, always contains dissolved minerals and
gases as a result of its interaction with the atmosphere, minerals in
rocks, organic matter, and living organisms.

Why don't you try a green or white tea first
with electric range and then with gas
range and report on difference? I already
tried it so I'm arguing from experience and
you are arguing from theory.


Have you tried homeopathy techniques on tea? Maybe you could brew one
perfect cup using perfect spring water heated in a glass pot, etc.,
etc., ... Then, through a process of diluting and succussing, you can
have an endless source of perfect tea forever.

Just kidding. I tried to give you some information on tea kettles. If
it wasn't useful, I'm sorry. Good luck with your $50 kettle. I'll
report back on my $90 digital after tomorrow.

No, I appreciate your help but I asked for some
specific criteria. That's like someone asking
how to get from NY to Niagara falls by bus
and someone else replying that you shouldn't
do that but instead fly to Bangkok and have
striped mussels in "Golden Lotus" restaurant
because they're un-be-li-eve-able. :-).

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:52:51 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

On Sep 7, 4:24*pm, Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:22:42 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

There are literally dozens of models available. Amazon has quite a few
and many have owner ratings. Epinions has a long list:

http://www.epinions.com/Electric_Ket...all-9688_brand

I just completed a fairly detailed search. I ended up ordering the
Digital Kettle Pro from Tea Treasures. It's scheduled to arrive
tomorrow. I'll post my impressions after I have a chance to use it
some.

On 8/20, Natarajan posted a nice review, after having just received
one. It was one of the reasons I bought one myself.

In my opinion, your $50 limit makes no sense. The difference between
$50 and $100 is only $10/year if you keep if for just 5 years. If the
$100 model has features that make your life easier, isn't that worth
$10/year to you? No-brainer to me.

Yes but if you follow the same logic you can say that
a $1000 kettle used over 20 years is just $4/month. That's
the kind of silly thinking that left me pennyless and
having to settle for a $50 kettle. So you see that the
answer is already part of your question?

Questionable logic. Anything can be taken to a silly extreme. If your
self-control is so impaired that you bankrupted yourself buying the
top-of-the-line everything, then you probably can't even afford the
$50 unit. Or, if your time and convenience isn't worth the extra $50,
don't buy it. You know what your time is worth.

Well, it's always a sliding scale. 9 times out of 10,
paying more will yield some advantage in
ruggedness, looks, features, etc. You have to
draw the line in the sand somewhere.

My finalists we

1. Digital Kettle Pro, $90, Tea Treasures.

http://teatreasures.com/page/Tea-Sup...-Tea-Kettles/D...

Pros:
* Digital temp control: 104?F - boiling, +/- 3 degrees.
* Temperature hold: holds water at the temperature setting.
* Cordless
* Stainless steel
* 1.5 liter (50 oz, 6 cup) capacity
* Auto shutoff if it runs dry
* Alarm when water reaches temperature

Cons:
* 1,000 W (less than most)
* Expensive
* External water guage. The website says it has an external water
guage, but Nataranjan says it does not.

For me, this was the only real contender. The digital temp setting and
the temp hold are not available in any other product as fas as I know.
The ability to fill it up, set the temperature, and not have to be
right there the instant it's ready was easily worth the extra $30-40.

I already have a Zojirushi and I suspect that hold temp
feature results in less-tasty tea.

More questionable logic. But, then, I think we'd had this debate
before. However, I'd give you the extra $50 if you could tell the
difference between tea brewed from water heated in a glass kettle and
used the instant it was warm and tea brewed from water heated in a
stainless kettle and left on warm for 10-15 minutes in a double-blind
test. I guess if you let it boil for 10-15 minutes, assuming you had
any water left, that would probablyt be detectable due to lack of
oxygen, but not just keeping it warm well below boiling.

Where are you? I don't want to spend $500 on travel
to win $50 in a blind test!


Digital temp control is no better than
analog, the real issue is how accurate the thermostat
is,

That's not true. With the digital, you get an exact setting. With the
analog, you cannot be sure you set it to exactly the same place unless
it has places where it clicks into place.

It's not exact with digital because it depends on
thermostat which likely isn't exact. Weakest
link in the chain and all that. I'd think that
far more inexactness is introduced by
thermostat than being 2mm off on the
analog dial, but that's just my opinion.

You are muddying the waters again. There are 2 factors: (1) the
thermostat and (2) the dial. Assuming that the thermostat is the same,
a digital "dial" will be more accurate and more repeatable than an
analog dial. Of course, if the analog unit has a better thermostat,
then we are not comparing apples to apples. I would susp=ect that the
digital units have a better thermostat because the digital dial can
make use of a better thermostat, whereas it would be wasted with an
analog dial.

I've got to finmd a way to keep you from changing the parameters of
the debate. ;-)

the Zoji I have cost $120 and is often listed at
around $140-150, so I think it would have thermostat
as good as kettles in sub-100 range, and it's not
terribly accurate, it can read 85 and then if you unplug
and plug it in again it will read 90, very often. So,
analog would be just fine for me as long as it's
accurate and consistent, but some people in
adagio UtiliTea reviews say that it's not consistent,
i.e. same setting will sometimes produce different
temp.

I don't want to pay more than $50 because I'm not
sure I will use it at all.

So you're willing to "risk" $50, but not $51?

Will the next question be something like
"you're willing to risk $51 but not $52??".
I'm hoping actually that the $40 one will
do. It sound like AK16 is the very similar
to the adagio kettle. In fact it's $50 and
then discounted to $38.

Only you can judge the cost/value tradeoffs. For me, $50 is nothing if
it makes my life easier on anything like a daily basis, which I
believe this new kettle will.

I think tea from electrically
heated water won't taste the same/as good.

Again, I'd wager you can't tell the difference in a double-blind test.

I could tell a huge difference with electric range
and Zoji pot. I would have preferred not being
able to, because it's far more convenient to
use Zoji pot and I paid $120 for it.

So, how do you explain HUGE difference
with *both* Zoji pot and electric range
when molecules are the same?

I'd have to see the Zoji. If the lining was leaching chemicals into
the water, then it's clearly different.

What I am saying is that pure water molecules (H2O) that are heated
over gas, electric, microwave, or campfire are indistinguishable from
each other. If the heating method puts something into the water, then
that's a different matter.

Also
the reviews say that if you use less water, same
setting will produce higher temp.

My main concern is inconsistent heating at same
setting, because then I'd rather buy a $40-50
kettle without variable temp locally and use a timer
with it.

BTW Zojirushis look very nice, and they do temp
hold by heating. They only have one model that
_in addition_ works like a thermos, so that it
spends less energy to keep water at high temp.

The real problem with Zojis is that white and
green teas don't taste very good. I think because
of electric heating and slow heating.. Actually
blacks don't taste quite the same either.

Yeah, I know you believe that the molecules somehow know where the
heat came from. They don't. Maybe if you heated the water under one of
those pyramid thingies from the 60s (or was it the 70s?) or hung some
crystals around or played some new age music.

Yet in food preparation it's a well known fact
that type of stove and material of the pan
will affect the taste. There's brick ovens,
pizza stones, copper pans, even though
"heat is the same".

There you go again. That is a completely different animal. Baking a
cake or a pizza at 300 vs 450 will yield a very different result, but
there are chemical and other processes that change. I'm talking about
water (H2O).

Here's a quote from 'water encyclopedia' site:
Although water has the simple formula H2O, it is a complex chemical
solution. "Pure" water essentially is nonexistent in the natural
environment. Natural water, whether in the atmosphere, on the ground
surface, or under the ground, always contains dissolved minerals and
gases as a result of its interaction with the atmosphere, minerals in
rocks, organic matter, and living organisms.

True, but we'd be using water from the same source. Let's take three
pyrex pots. Fill each with 1 liter of spring water. Put one on a gfas
range, one on an electric, and one in a microwave. Turn on the juice
and bring them all to a boil. Time how long it takes. As soon as we
have a rolling boil, make a pot of a good tea with each one. No one
will reliably be able to tell which is which.

We can repeat the experiment with water at 180 and a green or white
tea. I contend that this will be even harder to distinguish, because
it might be possible that one method or the other caused the water to
lose a little more or less oxygen when brought all the way to a boil.

Why don't you try a green or white tea first
with electric range and then with gas
range and report on difference? I already
tried it so I'm arguing from experience and
you are arguing from theory.

You may have more experience, but I do have some. I will absolutely
try the green and white teas.

Have you tried homeopathy techniques on tea? Maybe you could brew one
perfect cup using perfect spring water heated in a glass pot, etc.,
etc., ... Then, through a process of diluting and succussing, you can
have an endless source of perfect tea forever.

Just kidding. I tried to give you some information on tea kettles. If
it wasn't useful, I'm sorry. Good luck with your $50 kettle. I'll
report back on my $90 digital after tomorrow.

No, I appreciate your help but I asked for some
specific criteria. That's like someone asking
how to get from NY to Niagara falls by bus
and someone else replying that you shouldn't
do that but instead fly to Bangkok and have
striped mussels in "Golden Lotus" restaurant
because they're un-be-li-eve-able. :-).

No, Rainy, that is not even remotely analogous. A better analogy would
be if you asked how you could get from NY to Niagara Falls for less
than $50 and I suggested that for $100, you could go by method A,
which would save you 4 hours of travel time, and then asked you if
your time is worth more than $12.50/hour.

Now no more changing the parameters...

On Sep 8, 4:51*am, Square Peg wrote:
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:52:51 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:



On Sep 7, 4:24*pm, Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:22:42 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

There are literally dozens of models available. Amazon has quite a few
and many have owner ratings. Epinions has a long list:

http://www.epinions.com/Electric_Ket...all-9688_brand

I just completed a fairly detailed search. I ended up ordering the
Digital Kettle Pro from Tea Treasures. It's scheduled to arrive
tomorrow. I'll post my impressions after I have a chance to use it
some.

On 8/20, Natarajan posted a nice review, after having just received
one. It was one of the reasons I bought one myself.

In my opinion, your $50 limit makes no sense. The difference between
$50 and $100 is only $10/year if you keep if for just 5 years. If the
$100 model has features that make your life easier, isn't that worth
$10/year to you? No-brainer to me.

Yes but if you follow the same logic you can say that
a $1000 kettle used over 20 years is just $4/month. That's
the kind of silly thinking that left me pennyless and
having to settle for a $50 kettle. So you see that the
answer is already part of your question?

Questionable logic. Anything can be taken to a silly extreme. If your
self-control is so impaired that you bankrupted yourself buying the
top-of-the-line everything, then you probably can't even afford the
$50 unit. Or, if your time and convenience isn't worth the extra $50,
don't buy it. You know what your time is worth.

Well, it's always a sliding scale. 9 times out of 10,
paying more will yield some advantage in
ruggedness, looks, features, etc. You have to
draw the line in the sand somewhere.

My finalists we

1. Digital Kettle Pro, $90, Tea Treasures.

http://teatreasures.com/page/Tea-Sup...-Tea-Kettles/D...

Pros:
* Digital temp control: 104?F - boiling, +/- 3 degrees.
* Temperature hold: holds water at the temperature setting.
* Cordless
* Stainless steel
* 1.5 liter (50 oz, 6 cup) capacity
* Auto shutoff if it runs dry
* Alarm when water reaches temperature

Cons:
* 1,000 W (less than most)
* Expensive
* External water guage. The website says it has an external water
guage, but Nataranjan says it does not.

For me, this was the only real contender. The digital temp setting and
the temp hold are not available in any other product as fas as I know.
The ability to fill it up, set the temperature, and not have to be
right there the instant it's ready was easily worth the extra $30-40.

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 04:06:49 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

On Sep 8, 4:51*am, Square Peg wrote:
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 00:52:51 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:



On Sep 7, 4:24*pm, Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:22:42 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

Square Peg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 00:39:36 -0700 (PDT), Rainy
wrote:

I'm looking for an electric kettle with these features:

1. Boils quickly (i.e. not like Zojirushi dispensers)
2. Metal on the inside, no plastic (specify if it's coated with
anything or plain steel)
3. Variable temps with wide range of possible values
4. Not more than $50.

It looks like Upton Tea has a winner for $38. But is it metal on the
inside? Is it coated? Any other problems with it? Anyone have it or a
similar kettle?

There are literally dozens of models available. Amazon has quite a few
and many have owner ratings. Epinions has a long list:

http://www.epinions.com/Electric_Ket...all-9688_brand

I just completed a fairly detailed search. I ended up ordering the
Digital Kettle Pro from Tea Treasures. It's scheduled to arrive
tomorrow. I'll post my impressions after I have a chance to use it
some.

On 8/20, Natarajan posted a nice review, after having just received
one. It was one of the reasons I bought one myself.

In my opinion, your $50 limit makes no sense. The difference between
$50 and $100 is only $10/year if you keep if for just 5 years. If the
$100 model has features that make your life easier, isn't that worth
$10/year to you? No-brainer to me.

Yes but if you follow the same logic you can say that
a $1000 kettle used over 20 years is just $4/month. That's
the kind of silly thinking that left me pennyless and
having to settle for a $50 kettle. So you see that the
answer is already part of your question?

Questionable logic. Anything can be taken to a silly extreme. If your
self-control is so impaired that you bankrupted yourself buying the
top-of-the-line everything, then you probably can't even afford the
$50 unit. Or, if your time and convenience isn't worth the extra $50,
don't buy it. You know what your time is worth.

Well, it's always a sliding scale. 9 times out of 10,
paying more will yield some advantage in
ruggedness, looks, features, etc. You have to
draw the line in the sand somewhere.

My finalists we

1. Digital Kettle Pro, $90, Tea Treasures.

http://teatreasures.com/page/Tea-Sup...-Tea-Kettles/D...

Pros:
* Digital temp control: 104?F - boiling, +/- 3 degrees.
* Temperature hold: holds water at the temperature setting.
* Cordless
* Stainless steel
* 1.5 liter (50 oz, 6 cup) capacity
* Auto shutoff if it runs dry
* Alarm when water reaches temperature

Cons:
* 1,000 W (less than most)
* Expensive
* External water guage. The website says it has an external water
guage, but Nataranjan says it does not.

For me, this was the only real contender. The digital temp setting and
the temp hold are not available in any other product as fas as I know.
The ability to fill it up, set the temperature, and not have to be
right there the instant it's ready was easily worth the extra $30-40.

I already have a Zojirushi and I suspect that hold temp
feature results in less-tasty tea.

More questionable logic. But, then, I think we'd had this debate
before. However, I'd give you the extra $50 if you could tell the
difference between tea brewed from water heated in a glass kettle and
used the instant it was warm and tea brewed from water heated in a
stainless kettle and left on warm for 10-15 minutes in a double-blind
test. I guess if you let it boil for 10-15 minutes, assuming you had
any water left, that would probablyt be detectable due to lack of
oxygen, but not just keeping it warm well below boiling.

Where are you? I don't want to spend $500 on travel
to win $50 in a blind test!

Digital temp control is no better than
analog, the real issue is how accurate the thermostat
is,

That's not true. With the digital, you get an exact setting. With the
analog, you cannot be sure you set it to exactly the same place unless
it has places where it clicks into place.

It's not exact with digital because it depends on
thermostat which likely isn't exact. Weakest
link in the chain and all that. I'd think that
far more inexactness is introduced by
thermostat than being 2mm off on the
analog dial, but that's just my opinion.

You are muddying the waters again. There are 2 factors: (1) the
thermostat and (2) the dial. Assuming that the thermostat is the same,
a digital "dial" will be more accurate and more repeatable than an
analog dial. Of course, if the analog unit has a better thermostat,
then we are not comparing apples to apples. I would susp=ect that the
digital units have a better thermostat because the digital dial can
make use of a better thermostat, whereas it would be wasted with an
analog dial.

No, I agree that thermostats being perfectly
accurate, digital setting may be a little
better. The real issue is that no matter
how accurate digital setting is, it's already
limited by accuracy of thermostat. If a
thermostat is very accurate, an analog
dial will be perfectly good to hit the needed
range for a particular tea, IMHO. If it's not
very accurate then it's like one of the
guides to Egyptian pyramids who put
up a board that said 'this pyramid is 3002
years old' and someone wondered how he
can be so precise about the date, and he
answered that he first became a guide
2 years ago when he was told that the
pyramid is 3000 years old!

I give up. Funny story, though.


I've got to finmd a way to keep you from changing the parameters of
the debate. ;-)



the Zoji I have cost $120 and is often listed at
around $140-150, so I think it would have thermostat
as good as kettles in sub-100 range, and it's not
terribly accurate, it can read 85 and then if you unplug
and plug it in again it will read 90, very often. So,
analog would be just fine for me as long as it's
accurate and consistent, but some people in
adagio UtiliTea reviews say that it's not consistent,
i.e. same setting will sometimes produce different
temp.

I don't want to pay more than $50 because I'm not
sure I will use it at all.

So you're willing to "risk" $50, but not $51?

Will the next question be something like
"you're willing to risk $51 but not $52??".
I'm hoping actually that the $40 one will
do. It sound like AK16 is the very similar
to the adagio kettle. In fact it's $50 and
then discounted to $38.

Only you can judge the cost/value tradeoffs. For me, $50 is nothing if
it makes my life easier on anything like a daily basis, which I
believe this new kettle will.

I think tea from electrically
heated water won't taste the same/as good.

Again, I'd wager you can't tell the difference in a double-blind test.

I could tell a huge difference with electric range
and Zoji pot. I would have preferred not being
able to, because it's far more convenient to
use Zoji pot and I paid $120 for it.

So, how do you explain HUGE difference
with *both* Zoji pot and electric range
when molecules are the same?

I'd have to see the Zoji. If the lining was leaching chemicals into
the water, then it's clearly different.

What I am saying is that pure water molecules (H2O) that are heated
over gas, electric, microwave, or campfire are indistinguishable from
each other. If the heating method puts something into the water, then
that's a different matter.



Also
the reviews say that if you use less water, same
setting will produce higher temp.

My main concern is inconsistent heating at same
setting, because then I'd rather buy a $40-50
kettle without variable temp locally and use a timer
with it.

BTW Zojirushis look very nice, and they do temp
hold by heating. They only have one model that
_in addition_ works like a thermos, so that it
spends less energy to keep water at high temp.

The real problem with Zojis is that white and
green teas don't taste very good. I think because
of electric heating and slow heating.. Actually
blacks don't taste quite the same either.

Yeah, I know you believe that the molecules somehow know where the
heat came from. They don't. Maybe if you heated the water under one of
those pyramid thingies from the 60s (or was it the 70s?) or hung some
crystals around or played some new age music.

Yet in food preparation it's a well known fact
that type of stove and material of the pan
will affect the taste. There's brick ovens,
pizza stones, copper pans, even though
"heat is the same".

There you go again. That is a completely different animal. Baking a
cake or a pizza at 300 vs 450 will yield a very different result, but
there are chemical and other processes that change. I'm talking about
water (H2O).

Here's a quote from 'water encycl