On Apr 11, 6:48*pm, Nigel wrote
kevo
This daft use of ## in ur txt abt T is 2 much 4 me, I h8 it - so off
putting that of10
I never actually get 2 read your 1derful mails - which rather neg8s
the point of
communicating.
Perhaps I could persevere with translation if I understood the actual
point of it?

9gel@Tcraft
Datz bcoz i recif mail on my Nokia95 most times. I try 2 keep d
abbreviatns 2 2 n &, thanx 4 showing me more! No nid 2 hurt ur eyes
reading my entries, tho i read ur illuminating 1s, dey r brilliant.


Kevo

On Apr 12, 3:42*am, Lewis Perin wrote:
Melinda writes:
Lewis Perin wrote:

That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
be far below boiling from the second steep onward.

I thought that was the point of pouring the boiling water over the
outside of the pot once the steep had started. I guess it would be
exactly as if the pot has stayed very hot but it would be close
wouldn't it? The pot doesn't heat up instantly of course. but if I'm
doing tea outside I have to do this because it's in the 50's F, if
that, where I am during the day.

I know that's the theory of pouring hot water over the pot, but I'm
skeptical of its effectiveness. *For one thing - as I believe DogMa
once noted here - the evaporation of that water on the pot's skin will
*subtract* heat. *Also, probably more importantly, during a short
steep how much heat could the poured-over water really add?


Hi Lew

I read what Dogma wrote some time back. The approach is scientific,
but back in rural Chao Zhou, I dont think they have Dogma theory 2
test upon...


Kevo

"Jenn" wrote:

Many notes have been written about the caffeine levels in different
brews but I would like to ask if the good stuff in tea remains in
subsequent brews? I was just thinking that I had brewed a very nice
little cup of Gyokuro last night and then to sleep. This am saw the
little gaiwan with the pretty green leaves and and rebrewed it. It was
mighty fine in taste. I was wondering if all the good poly..
catche..etc things are still there in the brew?

As others have noted, yes, they remain but amounts diminish with
subsequent brewings. I also would not be comfortable with brewing
leaf left over from the previous day, but I drink Sencha daily and
I always make a second infusion about 90 minutes after the first.
The first two steepings are both excellent, but a little different in
flavor. Occasionally I make a third an hour or two after that, but
this third steeping is clearly not as good as the first two.

I'm surprised that if you drink Gyokuro, you aren't normally steeping
the same leaf at least twice. If not, you're missing some good tea.


--
Randy

Kevo writes:

On Apr 12, 3:42*am, Lewis Perin wrote:
Melinda writes:
Lewis Perin wrote:

That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
be far below boiling from the second steep onward.

I thought that was the point of pouring the boiling water over the
outside of the pot once the steep had started. I guess it would be
exactly as if the pot has stayed very hot but it would be close
wouldn't it? The pot doesn't heat up instantly of course. but if I'm
doing tea outside I have to do this because it's in the 50's F, if
that, where I am during the day.

I know that's the theory of pouring hot water over the pot, but I'm
skeptical of its effectiveness. *For one thing - as I believe DogMa
once noted here - the evaporation of that water on the pot's skin will
*subtract* heat. *Also, probably more importantly, during a short
steep how much heat could the poured-over water really add?

I read what Dogma wrote some time back. The approach is scientific,
but back in rural Chao Zhou, I dont think they have Dogma theory 2
test upon...

I certainly didn't want to suggest that a seventy-year-old guy, for
example, who's been brewing Chaozhou tea Chaozhou style in Chaozhou
all his life doesn't know what he's doing. I was saying that, if he
brews it with as relaxed a steep schedule as you describe, then
keeping the brewing temperature high must not be that important to
him.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Actually, I do steep almost all my teas at least 2x. More if I can.
Gyokuro is a special very nice tea that I love to drink late cause it
lulls me into a nice calm state.
But the question was about how many good things in the tea like
theanine, and such on subsequent brewings. I know youall are
obviously concerned for my health and I thank you for that.
Just to let you guys know at the end of the day I ususally put all the
spent leaves into my potted plants outside. Gee, My plants love it. I
dont usually save from day to day but this was an example that made me
think of the things that may flush away with each brewing. I guess
fungus doesnt, thank you.
Oh BTW what teas do you like to drink at night??? Which tea helps you
to relax late at night?
Jenn

On Apr 13, 11:00*pm, Lewis Perin wrote:
Kevo writes:
On Apr 12, 3:42*am, Lewis Perin wrote:
Melinda writes:
Lewis Perin wrote:

That brings up an issue that gets ventilated here from time to time.
If Teochew (Chaozhou) style lets the pot lie around for extended
periods between steeps, and if the pot is crammed with a heavy, wet
mass of previously steeped leaves, the temperature inside the pot will
be far below boiling from the second steep onward.

I thought that was the point of pouring the boiling water over the
outside of the pot once the steep had started. I guess it would be
exactly as if the pot has stayed very hot but it would be close
wouldn't it? The pot doesn't heat up instantly of course. but if I'm
doing tea outside I have to do this because it's in the 50's F, if
that, where I am during the day.

I know that's the theory of pouring hot water over the pot, but I'm
skeptical of its effectiveness. *For one thing - as I believe DogMa
once noted here - the evaporation of that water on the pot's skin will
*subtract* heat. *Also, probably more importantly, during a short
steep how much heat could the poured-over water really add?

I read what Dogma wrote some time back. The approach is scientific,
but back in rural Chao Zhou, I dont think they have Dogma theory 2
test upon...

I certainly didn't want to suggest that a seventy-year-old guy, for
example, who's been brewing Chaozhou tea Chaozhou style in Chaozhou
all his life doesn't know what he's doing. *I was saying that, if he
brews it with as relaxed a steep schedule as you describe, then
keeping the brewing temperature high must not be that important to
him.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /

At 70, he might appreciate a cooler cup of tea...

Kevo

In article ,
RJP wrote:
"Jenn" wrote:

Many notes have been written about the caffeine levels in different
brews but I would like to ask if the good stuff in tea remains in
subsequent brews? I was just thinking that I had brewed a very nice
little cup of Gyokuro last night and then to sleep. This am saw the
little gaiwan with the pretty green leaves and and rebrewed it. It was
mighty fine in taste. I was wondering if all the good poly..
catche..etc things are still there in the brew?

As others have noted, yes, they remain but amounts diminish with
subsequent brewings. I also would not be comfortable with brewing
leaf left over from the previous day, but I drink Sencha daily and
I always make a second infusion about 90 minutes after the first.
The first two steepings are both excellent, but a little different in
flavor. Occasionally I make a third an hour or two after that, but
this third steeping is clearly not as good as the first two.


What about all the bad stuff in tea, like the heavy metals and the
pesticides?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Hello Scott,
I wonder that too, Maybe we just have to take the good with the bad.
Like not using other possibly harmful chemicals to take out the stuff
we dont want.. .. But I like to think that in this passion of tea
drinking, that As well as getting my "tea fix" any time I want, it is
good for me too.. Well rationalizing is human behavior...
Jenn
Drinking warm matcha, wondering if I will die early because of it, or
live a few extra years because of it... Oh yeah it tastes soo
goodd...

there are a couple thorough discussion on this topic:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...cides&lnk=ol&#

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...t=0&scoring=d&

What about all the bad stuff in tea, like the heavy metals and the
pesticides?

To use pesticides or no pesticides is a trade-off in quality. If
you're drinking really good tea, I wouldn't worry about the
pesticides. If pesticides were used on the plants, there probably
wouldn't be much reside on the tea leaves. Why? Because tea is so
gentle. So you could taste the pesticide residue (if there was some)
in the tea.

Sure, they might use pesticides like DDT and benzene hexachloride
(BHC). But if you're drinking good tea, there shouldn't be anything in
there to worry of.

And say, you don't want your teas sprayed with pesticides, (and no
other treatment, like organic) - the tea will suffer in quality. Bugs
will eat the tea plants, and the leaves will deteriorate in quality,
having marks, etc. And this will affect the fragrance and flavor of
the finished product.

So... if you want to enjoy really good tea at a reasonable price,
then, the tea farmers might have to periodically spray the plants to
treat pests.

I wonder what the fresh tea leaves looked like back in the Song
Dynasty. Hmmmm............

Speaking of good stuff in tea....

Just for fun, I decided to check exactly what some of the pesticides
were used on tea in China.

And the verdict....
It's all good stuff, so drink up!!!

Here's the list:

2005 Maximum Pesticide Residue Allowable Limits for Food Products -
Tea Leaf Guidelines

1. ÁùÁùÁù Lindane 0.2
2. µÎµÎÌé DDT 0.2
3. ÂÈÇè¾Õõ¥ Cypermethrin 20
4. äåÇè¾Õõ¥ Decamethrin 10
5. ÒÒõ£¼×°·Á× Orthene 0.1
6. ɱêÔÁòÁ× Folithion n/a
7. ·úÇèÎì¾Õõ¥ Flucythrinate 20 (red,green tea)
8. ÂȾÕõ¥ Permethrin 20 (red, green tea)
9. ÇèÎì¾Õõ¥ Fenvalerate, Sumicidin n/a
10. ÈýÂÈɱòý´¼ Kelthane n/a
11. ¼×°·Á× Acephatemet, Methamidophos n/a

Notes£º
1. Numbers indicate maximum allowable limits of pesticide residues in
(mg/Kg)
2. n/a: no data available.
3. This standard came into effect on Oct. 1, 2005, effective for 1
year.
4. Don't know what the 2008 standard is, but you can be sure it has
changed since then.
5. Of tea samples tested and more than 24 types of pesticide residues
were found in various samples. No info on what the other pesticides
are.
6. Acephatemet banned from use in China January, 2004.

I will leave you guys to check on your own what each of these
pesticides are, and their potential health effects, etc.
One other point I should make though, is that this is 2005. That's
ancient history now. Now, because of stringent Japanese and EU import
restrictions, the tea business has changed in China, and some of
these pesticides are perhaps no longer used. But even tea farmers
themselves are often not clear which pesticides can be used on tea
plants. And some pesticide containers are sometimes not clearly
marked, or have prohibited ingredients mixed in - which confounds the
problem.

Someone once said they wished there was an easy way to test for
pesticides in tea. Apparently there is:

http://www.chem17.com/products/show/214321.asp#

In case you're wondering: mg/Kg is the same as ppm (parts per
million). I'm assuming those tests would be done on dry leaves. If you
made a tea infusion, the residual amounts of pesticides should be
less.

Also, since July, 2003, the EU set limits for pesticide residues in
tea at 0.01 ppm (or 0.01 mg/Kg). It was a much more stringent standard
than what was in in place in China. As a result, some teas for export
did not meet that standard. So that left tea producers who rely on tea
exports to meet the standard.

The 2005 standards above are for tea sales inside Mainland China. Now,
the government and tea prodcuers are working hard to meet the more
stringent standards, like those of the EU. So things can only get
better.

On Apr 20, 1:31 am, niisonge wrote:
Speaking of good stuff in tea....

Just for fun, I decided to check exactly what some of the pesticides
were used on tea in China.

And the verdict....
It's all good stuff, so drink up!!!

Here's the list:

2005 Maximum Pesticide Residue Allowable Limits for Food Products -
Tea Leaf Guidelines

1. ÁùÁùÁù Lindane 0.2
2. µÎµÎÌé DDT 0.2
3. ÂÈÇè¾Õõ¥ Cypermethrin 20
4. äåÇè¾Õõ¥ Decamethrin 10
5. ÒÒõ£¼×°·Á× Orthene 0.1
6. ɱêÔÁòÁ× Folithion n/a
7. ·úÇèÎì¾Õõ¥ Flucythrinate 20 (red,green tea)
8. ÂȾÕõ¥ Permethrin 20 (red, green tea)
9. ÇèÎì¾Õõ¥ Fenvalerate, Sumicidin n/a
10. ÈýÂÈɱòý´¼ Kelthane n/a
11. ¼×°·Á× Acephatemet, Methamidophos n/a

Notes£º
1. Numbers indicate maximum allowable limits of pesticide residues in
(mg/Kg)
2. n/a: no data available.
3. This standard came into effect on Oct. 1, 2005, effective for 1
year.
4. Don't know what the 2008 standard is, but you can be sure it has
changed since then.
5. Of tea samples tested and more than 24 types of pesticide residues
were found in various samples. No info on what the other pesticides
are.
6. Acephatemet banned from use in China January, 2004.

I will leave you guys to check on your own what each of these
pesticides are, and their potential health effects, etc.
One other point I should make though, is that this is 2005. That's
ancient history now. Now, because of stringent Japanese and EU import
restrictions, the tea business has changed in China, and some of
these pesticides are perhaps no longer used. But even tea farmers
themselves are often not clear which pesticides can be used on tea
plants. And some pesticide containers are sometimes not clearly
marked, or have prohibited ingredients mixed in - which confounds the
problem.

Standards in China are questionable compared to requirements here in
the US.
Shen

Standards in China are questionable compared to requirements here in
the US.

It seems it's not about Chinese producers being negligent. It seems,
rather it's a difference in regulations - both inside China, and
internationally. In China, you got federal regulations, provincial
regulations, and even industry regulations. That all makes everything
so complicated and confusing. Then there are international standards
that must be adhered to. So that makes everything different.
Apparently the EU brought on these regulations suddenly, and caught
Chinese producers off-guard. Now, if they want to export, they have to
forget about any Chinese standards, and implement stricter EU
standards.

And it seems that previous standards were internationally recognized
ones. If you look at the Codex Alimentarius, you can see various
standards for pesticide residues:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/meeting/00...e/f2595e11.htm

And here are the MRLs for tea as set in the Codex Alimentarius:
http://www.codexalimentarius.net/mrl...2Fpest_q-e.htm