On Mar 15, 2:41*pm, "Melinda" wrote:
I'm reading all of these "dirty, earthy" notes and must butt in: some
shus and many shengs are smooth, mellow, and more OR less robust. I
would suggest reading the list at Livejournal
(community.livejournal.com/puerh_tea) or checking out some critiques
on Pu-erh.net.
My favourite pus are older, mellower, and very, very complex.
Considering pu characteristics as simplistic as a loamy adjective is
not giving might Pu its due - like saying "greens are fishy".
Buy samples of good pu from good vendors: Yunnan Sourcing, Dragon
House and, of course, HouDeAsian all sell very worthwhile samples at a
small price.
After tasting several you'll begin to discern the lengthy variety of
flavours that arise in a cup of pu-erh. Use a Yixing and make a small
bit; try multiple infusions and distinguish the changes from pour to
pour.
But, PLEASE, NEVER insult pu-erh with an uninspired categorical
description.
Shen
(sipping 2004 Chan-Tai Jin Zhu Shan Yeh Sheng Wild Beeng) - uncooked
pu-erh, yet round, smooth, barely astringent. More delicate and
hauntingly aromatic. Even in the 5th, 6th and 7th infusion, the liquor
remains amber and sweet. A pu that will age extremely well.

Oh dear Shen, I'm afraid I don't measure up to your standards for tasting
ability...in fact this is something I've noticed about myself and while I do
concentrate hard sometimes I can't seem to get the huge wide breadth of
adjectives about *taste to occur to me. *I thought using the word "loamy"
was an indication of growth in my tea tasting vocabularly, you have wounded
me deeply. *

Seriously though, I'm seeing huge differences in people's ability to discern
various taste nuances in tea (if I go by what they say on their tasting
logs). I really do think it's something physical, not just a person not
concentrating or being careless or whatever. After all, not everyone is a
great perfumer for example.

Melinda, who also thinks the term "camphor" is used perhaps too much in
describing sheng puerh.

Oh, Melinda,
I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. I just thought folks should
give it a fair shot.
We are fortunate now that even the Chinese vendors on eBay are
offering samples of really good stuff at a fair price.
I would suggest writing to vendors like Sebastian at Jing's or
Stephane (www.teamasters.blogspot.com) and ask them what they'd
recommend for specific flavours that you are looking for in a pu-erh.
Or Guang, who, really, really knows his pu-erh stuff.
These guys are pretty willing to discuss what they've got and what to
expect from it.
Also try washing your mouth out between infusions and having a bite of
an unsalted cracker to "clean the palate".
Truthfully, I find, in general, many more complexities in some Oolong
and blacks (reds) than I do in pu-erh.
Cheers.
Shen

On Mar 15, 4:41 pm, "Melinda" wrote:
Seriously though, I'm seeing huge differences in people's ability to discern
various taste nuances in tea (if I go by what they say on their tasting
logs). I really do think it's something physical, not just a person not
concentrating or being careless or whatever. After all, not everyone is a
great perfumer for example.

Melinda, who also thinks the term "camphor" is used perhaps too much in
describing sheng puerh.

I don't think "earthy" is an insult at all, as it is the root of what
Puerh is all about. Sure from there it is an amazing voyage into any
number of directions, flavors, and experiences I don't think anyone
would argue that.

As for tasting or vocabulary, I find most of it useless and to some
degree pretentious... just as I find most tasting notes on wines. I
don't think a never ending flow of words helps to convey much. I can
get hints and feelings of hundreds of things upon both the dry leaf
and brew but simply listing them as in a wine review doesn't really
mean anything. Sure, I may get charcoal, raisin, wood, chocolate,
flowers, and on and on upon hitting it off with a Shui Xian but while
some may like that list I'd rather focus on the whole package and not
small (almost atomic) hints and notes and waftings. I'm not saying I
even come close to conveying everything I wished I could about each
tea I drink, but I also would rather just go with what is off the top
of my head and a basic overview and let the experience be up to the
individual from there since to me that is all that matters anyhow.

- Dominic

"Dominic T." writes:

On Mar 15, 4:41 pm, "Melinda" wrote:
Seriously though, I'm seeing huge differences in people's ability to discern
various taste nuances in tea (if I go by what they say on their tasting
logs). I really do think it's something physical, not just a person not
concentrating or being careless or whatever. After all, not everyone is a
great perfumer for example.

Melinda, who also thinks the term "camphor" is used perhaps too much in
describing sheng puerh.

I don't think "earthy" is an insult at all, as it is the root of what
Puerh is all about. Sure from there it is an amazing voyage into any
number of directions, flavors, and experiences I don't think anyone
would argue that.

Actually, the combination of smooth yet earthy and robust tastes gave me
the biggest surprise in my tastings of Pu Er. The Pu Er that I am
drinking now is very nice (to my limited buds) because it tastes both
earthy and smooth.
--
Aaron Hsu | Jabber:
``Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to
live at the expense of everybody else.'' - Frederic Bastiat

"Melinda" writes:

[...]
Seriously though, I'm seeing huge differences in people's ability to discern
various taste nuances in tea (if I go by what they say on their tasting
logs). I really do think it's something physical, not just a person not
concentrating or being careless or whatever. After all, not everyone is a
great perfumer for example.

I'm sure we vary in native sensory abilities. But I think what we're
born with is dwarfed by the abilities some of us, at least, develop
through experience. The experience, I think, consists of
concentrating on the taste and, especially, aroma of different teas
and also verbalizing the sensory experience so it's easier to remember
in the future. There was a study published in a respectable
scientific journal showing that, with enough training, humans could
track scents about as well as dogs.

Melinda, who also thinks the term "camphor" is used perhaps too much in
describing sheng puerh.

I completely agree.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Mar 16, 8:42*am, Lewis Perin wrote:
"Melinda" writes:
[...]
Seriously though, I'm seeing huge differences in people's ability to discern
various taste nuances in tea (if I go by what they say on their tasting
logs). I really do think it's something physical, not just a person not
concentrating or being careless or whatever. After all, not everyone is a
great perfumer for example.

I'm sure we vary in native sensory abilities. *But I think what we're
born with is dwarfed by the abilities some of us, at least, develop
through experience. *The experience, I think, consists of
concentrating on the taste and, especially, aroma of different teas
and also verbalizing the sensory experience so it's easier to remember
in the future. *There was a study published in a respectable
scientific journal showing that, with enough training, humans could
track scents about as well as dogs.

Melinda, who also thinks the term "camphor" is used perhaps too much in
describing sheng puerh.

I completely agree.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /

I agree.
When we lived up in Sonoma County, we could not help but drown
ourselves in all the wonders of Sonoma County wine. While I heard the
"wineheads" use words describing a red I had just quaffed as
"tobacco", "chocolate" or whatever, my mind would snap to attention,
delve into the glass, examine more carefully what I had just enjoyed
(or loathed) and attempt to get it - "oh, yeah. I taste some of that,
too."
What the verbal experience did was encourage me to go deeper into my
personal enjoyment experience and be more discerning - more aware.
The complexities of these tastings taught me to acknowledge the grape,
the season, the condition and age of the vine, the soil, the farmer,
the vintner, the barrel, the bottle and even the label.
I don't find the breadth of descriptions at all pretentious. It's just
more fun and enlightens the experience for me to look into this cup of
tea with more curiosity and much, much more gratitude.
The nuances I've discovered have enhanced my life; just as nuances in
any delightful observance enhance my life.
Having a cup of tea with this perspective urges me to be grateful and
in the hub-bub of our daily lives, the war, an election year, the
economy, I crave the simplicity AND the intricacy of a peaceful cup of
tea.
Shen

"Shen" wrote in message
...
On Mar 16, 8:42am, Lewis Perin wrote:
"Melinda" writes:
[...]
Seriously though, I'm seeing huge differences in people's ability to
discern
various taste nuances in tea (if I go by what they say on their tasting
logs). I really do think it's something physical, not just a person not
concentrating or being careless or whatever. After all, not everyone is
a
great perfumer for example.

I'm sure we vary in native sensory abilities. But I think what we're
born with is dwarfed by the abilities some of us, at least, develop
through experience. The experience, I think, consists of
concentrating on the taste and, especially, aroma of different teas
and also verbalizing the sensory experience so it's easier to remember
in the future. There was a study published in a respectable
scientific journal showing that, with enough training, humans could
track scents about as well as dogs.

Melinda, who also thinks the term "camphor" is used perhaps too much in
describing sheng puerh.

I completely agree.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /

I agree.
When we lived up in Sonoma County, we could not help but drown
ourselves in all the wonders of Sonoma County wine. While I heard the
"wineheads" use words describing a red I had just quaffed as
"tobacco", "chocolate" or whatever, my mind would snap to attention,
delve into the glass, examine more carefully what I had just enjoyed
(or loathed) and attempt to get it - "oh, yeah. I taste some of that,
too."
What the verbal experience did was encourage me to go deeper into my
personal enjoyment experience and be more discerning - more aware.
The complexities of these tastings taught me to acknowledge the grape,
the season, the condition and age of the vine, the soil, the farmer,
the vintner, the barrel, the bottle and even the label.
I don't find the breadth of descriptions at all pretentious. It's just
more fun and enlightens the experience for me to look into this cup of
tea with more curiosity and much, much more gratitude.
The nuances I've discovered have enhanced my life; just as nuances in
any delightful observance enhance my life.
Having a cup of tea with this perspective urges me to be grateful and
in the hub-bub of our daily lives, the war, an election year, the
economy, I crave the simplicity AND the intricacy of a peaceful cup of
tea.
Shen


This is a little off topic but:
I can't help but remember an article about a wine critic that I read years
ago, it's a famous critic but I don't remember his name nor where I read the
article (I'm sure I could find it on Google someplace) anyhow this
particular critic apparently used the term "fruit bomb" quite frequently
which I found amusing...it became, according to the article, very overused,
and its meaning became diluted because of that. Personally I'd love to find
more reds that were more fruit bomb and less burning "oaky" tannins, but
that's another topic...

I definitely agree with you Lew but I didn't explain to all that I used to
smoke years ago and while my sinuses have recovered somewhat, I also have
bad allergies so...at least right now my nose isn't really helping much and
smell is so important to taste. That's probably why I feel so clueless when
some teas are described as so complex and I don't get that when I taste
them. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy tea though, it's more like seeing 4
different shades of red instead of 50. I don't think my equipment is up to
very fine nuances at this time. So...I get what I can, lol. Which is what we
all do. I CAN tell the difference between a less smooth shu and a more
smooth shu though...I remember my first camel mini-tuos that weren't bad but
they weren't as smooth as others I've had since then.

Melinda

On Mar 17, 12:57 am, "Melinda" wrote:
It doesn't mean I don't enjoy tea though, it's more like seeing 4
different shades of red instead of 50. I don't think my equipment is up to
very fine nuances at this time. So...I get what I can, lol. Which is what we
all do. I CAN tell the difference between a less smooth shu and a more
smooth shu though...I remember my first camel mini-tuos that weren't bad but
they weren't as smooth as others I've had since then.

Melinda

In response to both Shen and Melinda (as well as anyone else I just
wanted to clarify my position on the issue... IMO the laundry list of
scents, flavors, and hints almost forces you to "find" them yourself
even if it was not your actual first impressions. It's kind of like
someone telling you they see 50 shades of red instead of just the 4
you really saw and you force yourself to "see" them as well. My
grandfather was a renown artist and he could paint a winter scene that
almost contained no actual white but made you physically cold to look
at it, it's because he saw purples and blues and yellows where the
average person saw "white." Even if I were to try to force myself to
see the scene through his eye it was strained and forced rather than
natural. To some degree this helped my art to know and force myself to
see beyond white, but to this day more often than not I still go with
my gut instinct. Same for wine or tea I guess, and I like to discover
a hint over having the mystery uncovered before me. It's almost like a
strange game of hide-and-seek and I feel rewarded when I discover a
tough note - I also find it a personal thing. I can appreciate the
other form of play though, where it becomes almost a scavenger hunt to
uncover the pre-defined list... just to me it limits your search to
the set list and keeps you from exploring and maybe finding a few
items present but not on the list. I like the hunt rather than being
told what I'll find.

- Dominic