Hey tea lovers I just wanted to inform the group about our tea. We
just started up in December of 2007 and we want to share out delicious
brew with other tea lovers.
Precious Will Tea is a private label tea company, run by a husband and
wife team, based in Queen Village, Philadelphia, PA.

Our teas are the best available from around the world. We use teas
recognized by the Ethical Tea Partnership
(www.ethicalteapartnership.org) for fair growing and manufacturing
practices and hand-bag each tea in chlorine-free tea bags.

We currently offer 14 different teas. With selections in Blacks,
Flavored Blacks, Rooibos, Greens, and Herbals you are sure to find
something that will meet your tea needs!

Be assured, Precious Will Tea has brewed each tea we sell to ensure
the correct balance of flavor and blend.
If we won't drink it we won't sell it!

Please check out our website to learn more about us and our tea:
www.preciouswilltea.com

On Feb 9, 10:17 pm, wrote:
Hey tea lovers I just wanted to inform the group about our tea. We
just started up in December of 2007 and we want to share out delicious
brew with other tea lovers.
Precious Will Tea is a private label tea company, run by a husband and
wife team, based in Queen Village, Philadelphia, PA.

Our teas are the best available from around the world. We use teas
recognized by the Ethical Tea Partnership
(www.ethicalteapartnership.org) for fair growing and manufacturing
practices and hand-bag each tea in chlorine-free tea bags.

We currently offer 14 different teas. With selections in Blacks,
Flavored Blacks, Rooibos, Greens, and Herbals you are sure to find
something that will meet your tea needs!

Be assured, Precious Will Tea has brewed each tea we sell to ensure
the correct balance of flavor and blend.
If we won't drink it we won't sell it!

Please check out our website to learn more about us and our tea:www.preciouswilltea.com

I see you've begun learning to create and use poor-quality vector
graphics to a nauseating degree. I'm not sure if you ever spent any
time even finding out about this newsgroup before your ad, but I'm
guessing not. Best of luck to ya but I'd imagine this ain't the place
you'll find it.

- Dominic

On Feb 9, 7:17*pm, wrote:
Hey tea lovers I just wanted to inform the group about our tea. *We
just started up in December of 2007 and we want to share out delicious
brew with other tea lovers.
Precious Will Tea is a private label tea company, run by a husband and
wife team, based in Queen Village, Philadelphia, PA.

Our teas are the best available from around the world. We use teas
recognized by the Ethical Tea Partnership
(www.ethicalteapartnership.org) for fair growing and manufacturing
practices and hand-bag each tea in chlorine-free tea bags.

We currently offer 14 different teas. With selections in Blacks,
Flavored Blacks, Rooibos, Greens, and Herbals you are sure to find
something that will meet your tea needs!

Be assured, Precious Will Tea has brewed each tea we sell to ensure
the correct balance of flavor and blend.
If we won't drink it we won't sell it!

Please check out our website to learn more about us and our tea:www.preciouswilltea.com

As per Dominic - you're not going to get any support from this group
because (as you'll see in the innumerable posts in the archives) NO
ADVERTISING ALLOWED!
PLEASE DON'T DO THIS AGAIN!
USE TEAMAIL ON YAHOO -THEY ALLOW ADVERTISING ONCE A MONTH ON
WEDNESDAYS.

On Feb 10, 10:48 am, "Dominic T." wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:17 pm, wrote:

I see you've begun learning to create and use poor-quality vector
graphics to a nauseating degree. I'm not sure if you ever spent any
time even finding out about this newsgroup before your ad, but I'm
guessing not. Best of luck to ya but I'd imagine this ain't the place
you'll find it.

- Dominic


hi dominc,

thanks for the feedback. our labels are deliberately minimalistic,
focusing more on the quality of tea and not some fancy branding. we
are in the early stages of this project (fourth month) and have seen
mild, yet consistent success.

we have only two goals through precious will tea: 1. to make tea
approachable for those who know nothing of tea beyond the yellow
lipton box; and 2. sell enough tea to afford us the opportunity to
someday visit the very fields from which our teas are produced - a
very long term goal.

i noticed you participate in many tea chats and would love to see what
your knowledge has produced, may it be your own line of tea offerings,
a tea shop or formal publications on the topic. otherwise, please
refrain from random blasting's until you've seen and tasted the
product first hand.

thank you,

wdw

On Feb 11, 6:42*am, wrote:
On Feb 10, 10:48 am, "Dominic T." wrote:

On Feb 9, 10:17 pm, wrote:

I see you've begun learning to create and use poor-quality vector
graphics to a nauseating degree. I'm not sure if you ever spent any
time even finding out about this newsgroup before your ad, but I'm
guessing not. Best of luck to ya but I'd imagine this ain't the place
you'll find it.

- Dominic

hi dominc,

thanks for the feedback. *our labels are deliberately minimalistic,
focusing more on the quality of tea and not some fancy branding. *we
are in the early stages of this project (fourth month) and have seen
mild, yet consistent success.

we have only two goals through precious will tea: 1. to make tea
approachable for those who know nothing of tea beyond the yellow
lipton box; and 2. sell enough tea to afford us the opportunity to
someday visit the very fields from which our teas are produced - a
very long term goal.

i noticed you participate in many tea chats and would love to see what
your knowledge has produced, may it be your own line of tea offerings,
a tea shop or formal publications on the topic. *otherwise, please
refrain from random blasting's until you've seen and tasted the
product first hand.

thank you,

wdw

Random blasting or not - perhaps, you didn't get the message very
clearly: DO NOT AS ADVERTISE HERE. No one likes it, nor is it the
place. IF you had read this group for any period of time, you would
realize that even the VERY BEST teas are not to be advertised here.
Your marketing goals are irrelevant. The bottom line is that this is
not a forum for advertising.
Dominic, in my honest opinion, was being as polite as possible and
he's pretty knowledgeable about teas.
If you have a specific tea to review, as a taster and not a vendor, go
ahead. That's interesting and many folks will generally jump in and
share. I have promoted or criticized many a tea as a taster myself.
But, in this case, you are, VERY OBVIOUSLY, pushing your teas.
Check the archives - not wanted here.
Shen

On Feb 11, 9:42 am, wrote:
On Feb 10, 10:48 am, "Dominic T." wrote:

On Feb 9, 10:17 pm, wrote:

I see you've begun learning to create and use poor-quality vector
graphics to a nauseating degree. I'm not sure if you ever spent any
time even finding out about this newsgroup before your ad, but I'm
guessing not. Best of luck to ya but I'd imagine this ain't the place
you'll find it.

- Dominic

hi dominc,

thanks for the feedback. our labels are deliberately minimalistic,
focusing more on the quality of tea and not some fancy branding. we
are in the early stages of this project (fourth month) and have seen
mild, yet consistent success.

we have only two goals through precious will tea: 1. to make tea
approachable for those who know nothing of tea beyond the yellow
lipton box; and 2. sell enough tea to afford us the opportunity to
someday visit the very fields from which our teas are produced - a
very long term goal.

i noticed you participate in many tea chats and would love to see what
your knowledge has produced, may it be your own line of tea offerings,
a tea shop or formal publications on the topic. otherwise, please
refrain from random blasting's until you've seen and tasted the
product first hand.

thank you,

wdw

Wow, you got a pair of brass ones. I honestly have no time or patience
for you or your snake oil. Your website is terrible, offers no
information beyond "the best tea in the world" which *must* be true
since you have never even visited any growers nor have you listed any
origin or really anything beyond ****-poor graphics and generic names.

Your "ordering system" is solely comprised of an Excel spreadsheet.
There's a thing called SSL, you may want to look into it.

You go ahead and send me a sample of your "best" tea (it can be very
small, 1 gaiwan's worth even) and I will pay for the actual shipping
costs happily. I would be the first person to shout from the rooftops
of its excellence regardless of your lack of tact in this newsgroup,
your disrespectful attitude, ignorance, and lack of web savvy. I'm
100% straightforward and honest, and that is what I was to you as
well. You came here to astroturf this newsgroup with an advertisement,
and I called you on it. Not just me, but everyone here is no stranger
to this behavior as it happens quite frequently and is not the way to
drum up business.

Attacking me or anyone here is certainly the wrong way to turn your
initial faux pas into anything productive. You made a mistake,
apologize and move on. If you'd like to participate in this newsgroup
and provide insight, intelligent conversation, and to probably learn a
ton about the business you've chosen... go ahead, we'd be glad to
learn more about you, the real scoop on your product, and offer help
and insight about tea... not business, but tea. Business will
naturally follow without ads.

- Dominic

On Feb 11, 2:01 pm, Shen wrote:


Apologies Shen. It was not our intention to maliciously litter an
advertisement free space, and you are correct, we have not been
following this group's thread long enough to know that.

That said, I am certainly willing to drop our post/thread if able. I
do not participate in Google Groups often enough to become familiar
with how-to's, so your experience would lend helpful here. Let me
know what I can do, and I'll move forward with it.

Thank you,

wdw

On Feb 11, 6:39 pm, wrote:
On Feb 11, 2:01 pm, Shen wrote:

Apologies Shen. It was not our intention to maliciously litter an
advertisement free space, and you are correct, we have not been
following this group's thread long enough to know that.

That said, I am certainly willing to drop our post/thread if able. I
do not participate in Google Groups often enough to become familiar
with how-to's, so your experience would lend helpful here. Let me
know what I can do, and I'll move forward with it.

Thank you,

wdw

Read my reply below and it should catch you up. You may want to start
by reading about Usenet: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/

You will find these points listed, among others:

* Do not use Usenet as an advertising medium.

* Think About Your Audience.
"Be familiar with the group you are posting to before you post! You
shouldn't post to groups you do not read, or post to groups you've
only read a few articles from"
"One normally does not join a conversation by just walking up and
talking. Instead, you listen first and then join in if you have
something pertinent to contribute."

- Dominic

On Feb 11, 6:52 pm, "Dominic T." wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:39 pm, wrote:

Read my reply below and it should catch you up. You may want to start
by reading about Usenet:http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/

You will find these points listed, among others:

* Do not use Usenet as an advertising medium.

* Think About Your Audience.
"Be familiar with the group you are posting to before you post! You
shouldn't post to groups you do not read, or post to groups you've
only read a few articles from"
"One normally does not join a conversation by just walking up and
talking. Instead, you listen first and then join in if you have
something pertinent to contribute."

- Dominic


Again, apologies all around.

I am more than happy to drop the thread, but have no idea how to go
about that process - any ideas?

Thanks,

wdw

On Feb 11, 7:02 pm, wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:52 pm, "Dominic T." wrote:



On Feb 11, 6:39 pm, wrote:

Read my reply below and it should catch you up. You may want to start
by reading about Usenet:http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/

You will find these points listed, among others:

* Do not use Usenet as an advertising medium.

* Think About Your Audience.
"Be familiar with the group you are posting to before you post! You
shouldn't post to groups you do not read, or post to groups you've
only read a few articles from"
"One normally does not join a conversation by just walking up and
talking. Instead, you listen first and then join in if you have
something pertinent to contribute."

- Dominic

Again, apologies all around.

I am more than happy to drop the thread, but have no idea how to go
about that process - any ideas?

Thanks,

wdw

You can't. It is what it is and it will always be since Usenet is
permanent and archived. Which is why you should take your time and
properly research where and how you choose to advertise. Look, to be
perfectly frank with you, this isn't the place for your tea. The folks
here, myself included, truly drink some of the best teas in the world.
Teas that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars for ounces/pounds. No
offense to you, your business, or your product... just realize what
you are selling is most likely of less quality than what most of us
here drink daily or have thrown away. That sounds harsh, or even
arrogant, but I can assure you it is the truth.

I only mention this because you could probably learn a lot from many
of the folks here, and it would only help you. Search our archives,
read our posts, research the regions and teas we drink and talk about.
Again, I think you just saw the word "tea" in this newsgroup's title
and assumed we were Lipton drinkers or all American. We aren't. There
are real tea growers here, people from around the world, and some
authorities on certain types of tea. More importantly most of us have
decades of dedication to tea, it is part of our lives and in some
cases religions.

To try to claim you have "the best tea in the world" is laughable at
best and honestly put up the largest red flag ever to 99% of the
readers here, I was just the only one who took the time/effort to
notify you of it instead of ignoring it and letting it fall away. I do
this to any posts of this nature (not just yours) here on this
newsgroup for a reason, to warn the casual observer/lurker that this
post is not in any way associated with us or is a known reputable and
trusted vendor to anyone here. In a word, SPAM.

Again, all this may sound harsh, but it isn't. You are free to spend
some time here, learn the ropes, contribute, listen... just never
advertise or try to do what you did again and all will be forgotten in
time if you are sincere and become a valued member. You've got a black
eye, just one, you can suck it up and it'll heal or you can move on.

- Dominic

oh, and this is Usenet, not anything to do with Google. It has been
around long before Google, and will be if/when they are no more. You
happen to access it via a Google service, nothing more. The link I
provided earlier and some quick research should catch you up.

On Feb 11, 7:25 pm, "Dominic T." wrote:

You can't. It is what it is and it will always be since Usenet is
permanent and archived. Which is why you should take your time and
properly research where and how you choose to advertise. Look, to be
perfectly frank with you, this isn't the place for your tea. The folks
here, myself included, truly drink some of the best teas in the world.
Teas that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars for ounces/pounds. No
offense to you, your business, or your product... just realize what
you are selling is most likely of less quality than what most of us
here drink daily or have thrown away. That sounds harsh, or even
arrogant, but I can assure you it is the truth.

I only mention this because you could probably learn a lot from many
of the folks here, and it would only help you. Search our archives,
read our posts, research the regions and teas we drink and talk about.
Again, I think you just saw the word "tea" in this newsgroup's title
and assumed we were Lipton drinkers or all American. We aren't. There
are real tea growers here, people from around the world, and some
authorities on certain types of tea. More importantly most of us have
decades of dedication to tea, it is part of our lives and in some
cases religions.

To try to claim you have "the best tea in the world" is laughable at
best and honestly put up the largest red flag ever to 99% of the
readers here, I was just the only one who took the time/effort to
notify you of it instead of ignoring it and letting it fall away. I do
this to any posts of this nature (not just yours) here on this
newsgroup for a reason, to warn the casual observer/lurker that this
post is not in any way associated with us or is a known reputable and
trusted vendor to anyone here. In a word, SPAM.

Again, all this may sound harsh, but it isn't. You are free to spend
some time here, learn the ropes, contribute, listen... just never
advertise or try to do what you did again and all will be forgotten in
time if you are sincere and become a valued member. You've got a black
eye, just one, you can suck it up and it'll heal or you can move on.

- Dominic

oh, and this is Usenet, not anything to do with Google. It has been
around long before Google, and will be if/when they are no more. You
happen to access it via a Google service, nothing more. The link I
provided earlier and some quick research should catch you up.


Thank you for the affirmation Dominic. I appreciate the extra-step
you've taken to explain the value of the group. I'll drop in from
time to time, mostly from a distance, to pick up a few nuggets of
experience from the crowd.

We've been spreading the word fast than we've been building the
business (side business/hobby really), and stepped rather impulsively
here. My wife made the initial post, hence my ignorance this is not a
google group.

Cheers,

wdw

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:28:24 -0800, Dominic T. wrote:

Wow, you got a pair of brass ones. I honestly have no time or patience
for you or your snake oil. Your website is terrible, offers no
information beyond "the best tea in the world" which *must* be true
since you have never even visited any growers nor have you listed any
origin or really anything beyond ****-poor graphics and generic names.

Your "ordering system" is solely comprised of an Excel spreadsheet.
There's a thing called SSL, you may want to look into it.

You go ahead and send me a sample of your "best" tea (it can be very
small, 1 gaiwan's worth even) and I will pay for the actual shipping
costs happily. I would be the first person to shout from the rooftops of
its excellence regardless of your lack of tact in this newsgroup, your
disrespectful attitude, ignorance, and lack of web savvy. I'm 100%
straightforward and honest, and that is what I was to you as well. You
came here to astroturf this newsgroup with an advertisement, and I
called you on it. Not just me, but everyone here is no stranger to this
behavior as it happens quite frequently and is not the way to drum up
business.

Attacking me or anyone here is certainly the wrong way to turn your
initial faux pas into anything productive. You made a mistake, apologize
and move on. If you'd like to participate in this newsgroup and provide
insight, intelligent conversation, and to probably learn a ton about the
business you've chosen... go ahead, we'd be glad to learn more about
you, the real scoop on your product, and offer help and insight about
tea... not business, but tea. Business will naturally follow without
ads.

- Dominic

I realise that jumping into this sort of an argument is unlikely to help
anything, but I think that you are being entirely too harsh to the
original poster. The advertisement in question wasn't a mindless spam and,
even if you objected to it, their responses were apologetic and polite.
The way that you're behaving towards the original poster is, in my mind,
far more offensive than their posting of an advertisement here.

On top of that, as has been mentioned before, the FAQ and charter for this
group does _not_ specifically prohibit advertising except as follows:

"but this newsgroup should NOT be used for advertising herbal tea
products or discussing tea as anything other than a beverage."

If anything, this implies that advertising C. sinensis based teas /is/
allowed. If you are going to be this irate about messages like this, I
suggest that you make sure that the "official" FAQ reflects this. If, that
is, it really is "the will of the group".

I agree that untargeted spamming is undesirable, but I wouldn't lump what
appears to be a hand-written message from a small startup company in with
bulk commercial advertising. I agree that full-on advertising should be
restricted here, but I don't see any reason why someone representing a
company should be prevented from talking about their products here
provided that they don't hammer it home and flood the group.

As a reader of this group, although not a frequent or knowledgeable
poster, I'm finding it more offensive to read your responses than the
polite messages from the original poster. It's clear that you dislike this
advertising, but this is one person who has made a mistake and should be
treated with some basic respect. A simple, polite message asking them not
to advertise would be much better than the repeated and personal attacks
that you're currently flinging at them.

I'm not going to get into an argument, so I won't be replying to this
message, but I wanted to show (particularly the original poster) that
there are people here who don't agree with you, especially in terms of the
way you're expressing yourself. I'm not advocating free-for-all
advertising, I'm advocating treating other people with a bit of respect,
even if they've inadvertently broken the rules.

Joss

if you were a reader of this group you would've seen this matter come
up from time to time.

please go back and read some more.

mindless SPAM is NOT WELCOME HERE.

On Feb 12, 6:38 am, Joss Wright wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:28:24 -0800, Dominic T. wrote:
Wow, you got a pair of brass ones. I honestly have no time or patience
for you or your snake oil. Your website is terrible, offers no
information beyond "the best tea in the world" which *must* be true
since you have never even visited any growers nor have you listed any
origin or really anything beyond ****-poor graphics and generic names.

Your "ordering system" is solely comprised of an Excel spreadsheet.
There's a thing called SSL, you may want to look into it.

You go ahead and send me a sample of your "best" tea (it can be very
small, 1 gaiwan's worth even) and I will pay for the actual shipping
costs happily. I would be the first person to shout from the rooftops of
its excellence regardless of your lack of tact in this newsgroup, your
disrespectful attitude, ignorance, and lack of web savvy. I'm 100%
straightforward and honest, and that is what I was to you as well. You
came here to astroturf this newsgroup with an advertisement, and I
called you on it. Not just me, but everyone here is no stranger to this
behavior as it happens quite frequently and is not the way to drum up
business.

Attacking me or anyone here is certainly the wrong way to turn your
initial faux pas into anything productive. You made a mistake, apologize
and move on. If you'd like to participate in this newsgroup and provide
insight, intelligent conversation, and to probably learn a ton about the
business you've chosen... go ahead, we'd be glad to learn more about
you, the real scoop on your product, and offer help and insight about
tea... not business, but tea. Business will naturally follow without
ads.

- Dominic

I realise that jumping into this sort of an argument is unlikely to help
anything, but I think that you are being entirely too harsh to the
original poster. The advertisement in question wasn't a mindless spam and,
even if you objected to it, their responses were apologetic and polite.
The way that you're behaving towards the original poster is, in my mind,
far more offensive than their posting of an advertisement here.

On top of that, as has been mentioned before, the FAQ and charter for this
group does _not_ specifically prohibit advertising except as follows:

"but this newsgroup should NOT be used for advertising herbal tea
products or discussing tea as anything other than a beverage."

If anything, this implies that advertising C. sinensis based teas /is/
allowed. If you are going to be this irate about messages like this, I
suggest that you make sure that the "official" FAQ reflects this. If, that
is, it really is "the will of the group".

I agree that untargeted spamming is undesirable, but I wouldn't lump what
appears to be a hand-written message from a small startup company in with
bulk commercial advertising. I agree that full-on advertising should be
restricted here, but I don't see any reason why someone representing a
company should be prevented from talking about their products here
provided that they don't hammer it home and flood the group.

As a reader of this group, although not a frequent or knowledgeable
poster, I'm finding it more offensive to read your responses than the
polite messages from the original poster. It's clear that you dislike this
advertising, but this is one person who has made a mistake and should be
treated with some basic respect. A simple, polite message asking them not
to advertise would be much better than the repeated and personal attacks
that you're currently flinging at them.

I'm not going to get into an argument, so I won't be replying to this
message, but I wanted to show (particularly the original poster) that
there are people here who don't agree with you, especially in terms of the
way you're expressing yourself. I'm not advocating free-for-all
advertising, I'm advocating treating other people with a bit of respect,
even if they've inadvertently broken the rules.

Joss

Joss, you're welcome to your opinion. I was and am 100% honest and I
made every attempt to clarify every point I made. I get so sick and
tired of people defending this kind of thing that I honestly stop
caring. But, when you or someone like you - a casual reader/poster
here - decides to order tea from one of these sites and gets taken or
scammed *then* get back to me about how harsh or terrible I am.

I have spent countless hours and years protecting consumers/banking
online as a profession, if you truly think my comments are unfounded
or baseless then go right ahead. Go ahead and order tea via a
spreadsheet with personal info with ZERO protection or security. No
matter how well meaning or good intentioned, nothing excuses a
complete disregard for customer security. See how much good intentions
help when your identity/private info gets stolen. It's a serious
issue, I take it seriously, I've seen the damage first-hand over and
over.

Once he apologized, I backed off and offered nothing but constructive
criticism. There is little more I can/will do.

- Dominic

On Feb 12, 9:35 am, "Dominic T." wrote:
Joss, you're welcome to your opinion. I was and am 100% honest and I
made every attempt to clarify every point I made. I get so sick and
tired of people defending this kind of thing that I honestly stop
caring. But, when you or someone like you - a casual reader/poster
here - decides to order tea from one of these sites and gets taken or
scammed *then* get back to me about how harsh or terrible I am.

I have spent countless hours and years protecting consumers/banking
online as a profession, if you truly think my comments are unfounded
or baseless then go right ahead. Go ahead and order tea via a
spreadsheet with personal info with ZERO protection or security. No
matter how well meaning or good intentioned, nothing excuses a
complete disregard for customer security. See how much good intentions
help when your identity/private info gets stolen. It's a serious
issue, I take it seriously, I've seen the damage first-hand over and
over.

Once he apologized, I backed off and offered nothing but constructive
criticism. There is little more I can/will do.

- Dominic


Wow. Thanks for the moral support Joss, however I'd rather see this
issue fade away.

In regards to our shoty or otherwise dodgy website, this is a small
project to supplement some newly found free time after a normal work
day. We have not made the final leap to design and build a full blown
e-commerce site with all the bells-n-whistles, but it is something we
are constantly considering and pricing. As for "security", we rely on
google for that service. We actually never see any credit
information, just shipping information.

I do appreciate the general concern Dominic has vocalized concerning
spammers, as I too loath the variety of offers made from Nigerian oil
tycoons from the random household items I post on craigslist, however
I wish he had highlighted our use of google checkout as a reliable
source of security. We put our first "funds" into the tea and its
packaging, not our world wide image - am obvious mistake.

Let's all just leave it at that.

Thank you,

wdw