Article in NY Times on coffee: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/dining/23coff.html

If this is where mass market coffee is going, can tea be far behind?
This type of machine may never achieve the same popularity as easy
grab-and-go espresso that is popular now, but this article is
interesting for those of us who cherish the idea of brewing a perfect
cup of something. I love the fact that brewing tea is always a bit of
a mystery, and I love it when I do finally get that perfect cup.

On Jan 23, 9:02 am, cha bing wrote:
Article in NY Times on coffee:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/dining/23coff.html

If this is where mass market coffee is going, can tea be far behind?
This type of machine may never achieve the same popularity as easy
grab-and-go espresso that is popular now, but this article is
interesting for those of us who cherish the idea of brewing a perfect
cup of something. I love the fact that brewing tea is always a bit of
a mystery, and I love it when I do finally get that perfect cup.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to a Starbucks, but "The Least
Perfect Cup" is certainly NOT a major deterrent to customers. I can
count on two fingers the number of perfect cups I have ever received
in my life, one espresso and one regular cup of black coffee. Sadly
both establishments are now out of business.

I have toyed with the idea of opening a tea cafe for a few years, and
in my initial research and planning stages the result is always the
same, no one really cares. A nice quiet environment, quality tea
brewed perfectly, cool Asian snacks, traditional music, special gong
fu brewings, and local poetry/artists. Basically my personal t'ien.
Who knows, maybe I'll take the plunge someday but for now signs don't
point to success.

People want mediocre, fast, impersonal, loud, uncomfortable, and
hurried. Maybe in NYC there are enough people to fill such niches but
I'd imagine it to be mostly a fad following with a few regulars that
would quickly taper off. Just my 2 pence.

- Dominic

Unfortunately, I think you are right. But I can imagine that a
momentary tea fad could change expectations about what people serve as
"tea", so that it would be possible to get something other than lipton
at restaraunts. Maybe some day, getting a pot of hot water and some
loose leaf tea at a restaraunt will not be so unheard of. I only say
this while keeping in mind that in the early nineties, canned or
instant coffee seemed to be more common than Starbucks in most places
in this country. Starbucks, despite its imperfections, is better than
what most people had before and I would guess that most people never
thought of coffee details such as bean roast or geographic origin
prior to the Starbucks era. I personally am not crazy about it, but
I'll sure drink it over chock-full-of-nuts, or even an overpriced bag
of lipton. I will also note that I have seen some coffee places (e.g.
Caribou Coffee) offer looseleaf tea brewing if you look closely at
their menu. Maybe a sophisticated brewing machine could aid the
transition from tea bags to tea pots in non-niche markets outside of
places such as New York or Seattle or Portland. This change could
bring enough converts to tea so as to make more "hardcore" tea brewing
restaraunts more financially viable in smaller areas.

Plain looseleaf tea doesn't have enough "flavor" to appeal to the
masses.
You kind of have to pay attention to what you're drinking to detect
nuances etc. Most people dont/wont do that. They would take a sip and
expect a !BAM! here's the flavors on your tongue!
That's why RTD (USA) is mostly full of sugarized flavored bottled tea
drinks; or they push the "health" aspects of tea.
That's why most tea bars/cafes that "survive" have something more -
bobo tea, or tea mixed with fruits etc, or "herbal tea".

The nicest chain tea experience i had at Peet's Coffee

That machine in the NYtimes article is a vacuum brewer (not
"siphon"),
and it takes more time to brew than usual ,
this info is BS: "its genius is in its programming," -- the only
programming a vacuum pot needs is having coffee, water put in it,
turning on and then off of the heat. the rest is done by the hot water
rising into the upper chamber, then when cool, it will fall back down.
a commercial 4 group espresso machine is cheaper and has more
programming and complexity than this contraption.

they will have a happy time cleaning all the glass funnels after each
brew...

he http://sweetmarias.com/prod.brewers.vacuum.shtml

On Jan 23, 9:02*am, cha bing wrote:
Article in NY Times on coffee:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/dining/23coff.html

If this is where mass market coffee is going, can tea be far behind?
This type of machine may never achieve the same popularity as easy
grab-and-go espresso that is popular now, but this article is
interesting for those of us who cherish the idea of brewing a perfect
cup of something. I love the fact that brewing tea is always a bit of
a mystery, and I love it when I do finally get that perfect cup.

It's annoying that they don't say how this machine should
be better than any standard vacuum coffee maker. My guess
is that flame is more easily controlled, and may be
programmed to stop after a time, or maybe even programmed
to increase or decrease in power automatically?

Coffee making is easier to automate than tea. It's all
ground so it has the same consistency, it always brews at
the same temperature and the same time. With tea, all of
this can be different. The clover system seems like it
could be automated to brew a perfect cup of tea by itself,
you'd just have to choose presets for each type of tea. It
would even be able to push a bricket of spent leaves into
a waste bucket. With coffee, it can, in theory, have a bin
with ground beans and take it automatically from there,
adjusting amount of water to amount of grounds as needed.
With tea, that's the only step that'd be impossible to
automate because leaves have different consistency and
there are types of tea, for example silver needles, where
dry leaves stick together.

The only auto tea maker I saw was similar to drip coffee
makers, and had only one temp for black tea, and it
probably uses much lower effective temp because water will
cool down as it travels up and drips slowly. Another maker
I only saw online has a separate chamber for brewing but
that chamber is made out of plastic. It seems odd that
there isn't anything close to an auto tea maker that'd
have variable time, temp and two glass chambers, for
brewing and for made tea. A bonus would be to have
programming for gong-fu style brewing (very low time settings
and slightly increased temperature with each brew. Another bonus
would
be automatic disposal of spent leaves, but that would mean
a much more expensive construction. I think we may see
some makers of this sort in the next few years in places
like starbucks and only then there will be a chance for
them to go down in price for individuals.

On Jan 23, 8:02*am, cha bing wrote:
Article in NY Times on coffee:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/dining/23coff.html

If this is where mass market coffee is going, can tea be far behind?
This type of machine may never achieve the same popularity as easy
grab-and-go espresso that is popular now, but this article is
interesting for those of us who cherish the idea of brewing a perfect
cup of something. I love the fact that brewing tea is always a bit of
a mystery, and I love it when I do finally get that perfect cup.

My feeling is that any tea I brew myself is "perfect," but ant
commercially brew tea is not. Toci

Dominic,

Seven Cups Tea House here in Tucson comes close to your idea. I
especially like the large (to me anyway) selection of Asian pastries.
Things I don't see in other places. The atmosphere is very relaxing,
with traditional music and beautiful furniture and decor. I'm
pleasantly surprised that we have something like that here when other,
much larger, cities do not.

As far as the "siphon bar" goes, this strikes me as more of an
affection/conversation piece than a superior method for brewing
coffee. Now, what I know about coffee could fit in a demitasse (with
plenty of room for milk), but as with tea, I think "keep it simple
stupid" applies. I'm don't see what benefit the halogen lamp has over
other heating methods (a gas flame can be regulated instantly), but it
certainly looks cool.

Alan

On Jan 23, 7:34*am, "Dominic T." wrote:

I have toyed with the idea of opening a tea cafe for a few years, and
in my initial research and planning stages the result is always the
same, no one really cares. *A nice quiet environment, quality tea
brewed perfectly, cool Asian snacks, traditional music, special gong
fu brewings, and local poetry/artists. Basically my personal t'ien.
Who knows, maybe I'll take the plunge someday but for now signs don't
point to success.

We are often approached by inventers with a new tea brewing idea, and
occasionally have taken on development of their brainchild. Look
however at the ratio of patents to successful commercial devices to
divine the prospects of getting one to work acceptably.
In the 1990s normally savvy Unilever perceived a market gap for the
high speed tea bar and spent an unbelievable amount of cash developing
the "T-Bird" auto brewer. Their Ch'a Bars had this glass and shiny
metal monstrosity on the counter as "theatrical sight and sound
display" that visually high-speed-automatically-brewed your tea before
your very eyes ("Turbo brewing under two illuminated wings using a
pulsing jet of water"). The Agony of the Leaves could be seen and
possibly felt as brewing time was accelerated to match the consumers'
impatience ("25 seconds from click to cup"). No baristas, Unilever
had "highly skilled and well trained 'tipsters'". Walls and tables
were adorned with quirky mock tea quotes and limericks manufactured by
their PR company. The atmosphere was what I believe is known as
"funky". In the UK at least Ch'a Bars failed dismally and when last I
heard the T-Bird was "available to license". Enough said.

Nigel at Teacraft


On Jan 23, 2:02 pm, cha bing wrote:
Article in NY Times on coffee:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/dining/23coff.html

If this is where mass market coffee is going, can tea be far behind?
This type of machine may never achieve the same popularity as easy
grab-and-go espresso that is popular now, but this article is
interesting for those of us who cherish the idea of brewing a perfect
cup of something. I love the fact that brewing tea is always a bit of
a mystery, and I love it when I do finally get that perfect cup.

I can
count on two fingers the number of perfect cups I have ever received
in my life, one espresso and one regular cup of black coffee. Sadly
both establishments are now out of business.

Guess what happened to the first "real" (i.e. knowledgable, honest,
high quality & NOT foremost profit-oriented) tea-shop I found in
Germany about 15 years ago? After having an eye-opening experience
there with an outstanding Darjeeling I went back a couple of months
later to restock and all I found was an empty store... It's a sad story
that seems to repeat itself.


I have toyed with the idea of opening a tea cafe for a few years, and
in my initial research and planning stages the result is always the
same, no one really cares. A nice quiet environment, quality tea
brewed perfectly, cool Asian snacks, traditional music, special gong
fu brewings, and local poetry/artists. Basically my personal t'ien.
Who knows, maybe I'll take the plunge someday but for now signs don't
point to success.

People want mediocre, fast, impersonal, loud, uncomfortable, and
hurried. Maybe in NYC there are enough people to fill such niches but
I'd imagine it to be mostly a fad following with a few regulars that
would quickly taper off.

Another check mark. We DID take the plunge and did fulfill our dream of
opening a teahouse here in New Zealand. Our vision sounds strangely
similar to yours. And we found out...
.... that your research is correct. Sadly. The fact that blew us away is
that people DO want to be uncomfortable. We created the place as
comfortable as possible. Seating choices ranging from floor cushions to
sofas and regular tables. But it seems that people are intimidated by
comfort and a peaceful environment.
They also don't see the point in paying, say NZ$8 for a pot of highest
quality tea. They don't mind, however, to spend NZ$40 every weekend on
5 beers or NZ$8 for a glass of mediocre wine at a restaurant!

The good news is that there ARE people who appreciate a space like the
tea place you envision. They are VERY rewarding customers and we have
met many great people through our business. Unfortunately, there might
not be enough of them to sustain business. We have been in business for
about 18 months now and have been struggling ever since opening.

Dominic, if you're ever down here in Kiwiland, please drop in and I'd
be delighted to share some of our treasures with you.

Jo
Ya-Ya House of Excellent Teas

PS: I memory serves me right, then I remember to read a post by Houde
about not selling anything at some expo. Another proof that Western
people might not be ready for the leaf (yet)!

On Jan 24, 1:19 pm, "Jo" wrote:
I can
count on two fingers the number of perfect cups I have ever received
in my life, one espresso and one regular cup of black coffee. Sadly
both establishments are now out of business.

Guess what happened to the first "real" (i.e. knowledgable, honest,
high quality & NOT foremost profit-oriented) tea-shop I found in
Germany about 15 years ago? After having an eye-opening experience
there with an outstanding Darjeeling I went back a couple of months
later to restock and all I found was an empty store... It's a sad story
that seems to repeat itself.

I have toyed with the idea of opening a tea cafe for a few years, and
in my initial research and planning stages the result is always the
same, no one really cares. A nice quiet environment, quality tea
brewed perfectly, cool Asian snacks, traditional music, special gong
fu brewings, and local poetry/artists. Basically my personal t'ien.
Who knows, maybe I'll take the plunge someday but for now signs don't
point to success.

People want mediocre, fast, impersonal, loud, uncomfortable, and
hurried. Maybe in NYC there are enough people to fill such niches but
I'd imagine it to be mostly a fad following with a few regulars that
would quickly taper off.

Another check mark. We DID take the plunge and did fulfill our dream of
opening a teahouse here in New Zealand. Our vision sounds strangely
similar to yours. And we found out...
... that your research is correct. Sadly. The fact that blew us away is
that people DO want to be uncomfortable. We created the place as
comfortable as possible. Seating choices ranging from floor cushions to
sofas and regular tables. But it seems that people are intimidated by
comfort and a peaceful environment.
They also don't see the point in paying, say NZ$8 for a pot of highest
quality tea. They don't mind, however, to spend NZ$40 every weekend on
5 beers or NZ$8 for a glass of mediocre wine at a restaurant!

The good news is that there ARE people who appreciate a space like the
tea place you envision. They are VERY rewarding customers and we have
met many great people through our business. Unfortunately, there might
not be enough of them to sustain business. We have been in business for
about 18 months now and have been struggling ever since opening.

Dominic, if you're ever down here in Kiwiland, please drop in and I'd
be delighted to share some of our treasures with you.

Jo
Ya-Ya House of Excellent Teas

PS: I memory serves me right, then I remember to read a post by Houde
about not selling anything at some expo. Another proof that Western
people might not be ready for the leaf (yet)!

Hey Jo,

Thanks for sharing! My background in business and logic tend to
overrun my emotional side, I'm slowly changing that and would still
like to do it at some point or in some way... I'm just looking for the
right time and place. I have very close personal friends who live in
NZ and I do plan on visiting there in the next year or two... so hang
in there In the meantime I will gladly tell them about your
teahouse (feel free to email me details of its location if you don't
want to post them here)

I did some different research projects into it and exactly what you
state is correct. I had tastings and questionaires at a coffee shop,
and the only two teas anyone liked were a strawberry sencha and a
ginger peach black tea. Both flavored teas. Even things like jasmine
were passed over.

I keep hoping there is an angle I'm missing or an idea to showcase the
tea while having enough other options to stay afloat. I don't want to
do food (beyond basics), and my only other choices so far are an art
gallery or niche book shop/filmhouse with cool indie films.

I wish you nothing but the best success, and keep at it!
- Dominic

On Jan 23, 9:34 am, "Dominic T." wrote:

People want mediocre, fast, impersonal, loud, uncomfortable, and
hurried.

Dominic,

I can't believe that people really want impersonal, loud, and
uncomfortable. We all want calm, comfortable, and intimate, but many
of us just can't figure out how to fit it in our lives. We're always
in a rush.

I know a number of tea houses that seem to keep afloat, and they all
have a take-out counter for quick daily-brews, loose-leaf teabags in
paper cups, baked goods, and random novelteas (bubble tea, matcha
smoothies, books, accessories). I'm sure it's the counters that pay
the bills, but in the back there's a nice place to sit and relax,
Louis Armstrong is cooing quietly, a gas fireplace defrosts your
bones, and there are tables where small groups of friends gather. I
think that, sometimes, even the frantic caffeine junkies up front need
a breath of air, and when the do they look beyond the front counter
and sit down for a moment with a cup of tea.

Tea is an acquired taste, and many will opt for the decaf caramel
mango tango at first, but a teashop full of possibiliteas will
definitely win some converts.

It's no starbuck's through..

m

Dominic T. wrote:
My background in business and logic tend to
overrun my emotional side, I'm slowly changing that and would still
like to do it at some point or in some way...

Dominic, it is a very liberating step if you let your emotional side
reign, but you'd need some backup options. We keep hoping that people
DO care, but it seems that it's not even 1 in 100...

I did some different research projects into it and exactly what you
state is correct. I had tastings and questionaires at a coffee shop,
and the only two teas anyone liked were a strawberry sencha and a
ginger peach black tea. Both flavored teas. Even things like jasmine
were passed over.

Since there is nothing I loathe more than aromatized teas (my homeland
Germany seems to be dominated by this kind of "tea"), we made the
decision to not carry any flavored teas (exceptions are a few
traditional flower-scented chinese teas like high-end Jasmine pearls).
We do have the odd person asking for a lime-sencha, but that happens
rather rarely. I think, the problem is to get people to try something
new (a rather inappropriate term in regards to tea, I know). If they do
try it, they are almost guaranteed to be back. There is a strange
misconception about what tea tastes like. Give them a good pu-erh or
Darjeeling and it blows them away...


I don't want to
do food (beyond basics), and my only other choices so far are an art
gallery or niche book shop/filmhouse with cool indie films.

Like-mindedness? Your paragraph reads like a snapshot of our thoughts.
We don't do food (beyond basics), which is a bit of a problem. And one
of our ideas was to show "cool indie films". I hope you will come to
New Zealand in the near future. I'd love to chat, watch some movies and
drink tea...

I'll send you a private message about our teahouse (remembering the
passionate discussions and flame-wars regarding tea merchants here in
this group last year...).

Jo