On Nov 28, 10:57 pm, Michael Plant wrote:

Now, I know that freezing many different kinds of wet veggies,
meats, and other food stuffs can radically change their consistency
by breaking down whatever gets broken down to change the
consistency of said foodstuffs. So, I'm wondering whether freezing
would alter the structure of the tea leaves, not for the better. After
all, tea leaves must retain *some* moisture content. Just
speculations based on nothing. Would accept serious comments on this.

Comments -
1. I never found any apparent organoleptic change in tea frozen at 6%
moisture content and below (this is still pretty dry - crisp between
the teeth - tea is regularly traded at around 8% mositure, bug growth
begins at 12-14% moisture, green veggies are at 80% plus).
2. Structure alteration is inversely proportional to freezing
temperature - hence I specify minus 18 deg C. Liquid nitrogen (minus
196 dec C) imparts "no" structural alteration so can be used for
storing viable gametes and/or embryos. May however be OTT even for a
fine TGY?

Nigel at Teacraft

It's the die-hard majong players you have to watch out for. That's
where these clandestine tea shops come in. The set up a storefront -
that looks like it's on the up and up. But in the back, they got rooms
for playing majong. Lots of cigarette smoke. Not a nice place to buy
or drink some tea. And these guys don't want to be drinking too much
tea in the middle of gambling - otherwise they will have to get up all
the time and go to the toilet.

Those places are not really for buying tea anyway, as we know.
Majiang is sorta a "grey" area when it comes to legality down here.
Most people, including government and police, play Majiang and can
lose huge sums of cash in a single game; it would be pretty difficult
to ban any kind of gambling on any level.

In Dongguan, it's harder and harder to find JUST a teahouse. Most
shops here have second floors for people to play but most of the
business is concentrated on the sale of tea. There again, you don't
find much good tea, wine, or tobacco here at all; new money and all.

I do enjoy a game of Majiang from time to time, though.

I can't even come to close to Nigel's response regarding tea, but in a
related subject:

Nuts can be re-frozen many times with little to no change in texture,
taste, etc., due to their low moisture content. So, I would think that
any low-moisture food-item could be safely refrozen: nuts, coffee,
dried herbs, tea. Not counting things like mayonnaise, of course. Not
a pretty sight.

Alan

Alan writes:

I can't even come to close to Nigel's response regarding tea, but in a
related subject:

Nuts can be re-frozen many times with little to no change in texture,
taste, etc., due to their low moisture content. So, I would think that
any low-moisture food-item could be safely refrozen: nuts, coffee,
dried herbs, tea. Not counting things like mayonnaise, of course. Not
a pretty sight.

You aren't going to leave us hanging, are you? What happens when you
freeze mayonnaise?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
Alan writes:

I can't even come to close to Nigel's response regarding tea, but in a
related subject:

Nuts can be re-frozen many times with little to no change in texture,
taste, etc., due to their low moisture content. So, I would think that
any low-moisture food-item could be safely refrozen: nuts, coffee,
dried herbs, tea. Not counting things like mayonnaise, of course. Not
a pretty sight.

You aren't going to leave us hanging, are you? What happens when you
freeze mayonnaise?

It separates. Regular mayo uses egg as an emulsifier to keep the oil and
water part together in an emulsion. Freeze it and the two come apart.

I'm not sure WHAT the premade stuff in the jar does, though. It's nasty
enough to begin with I can't imagine separation making it any worse.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lewis Perin wrote:
Alan writes:

I can't even come to close to Nigel's response regarding tea, but in a
related subject:

Nuts can be re-frozen many times with little to no change in texture,
taste, etc., due to their low moisture content. So, I would think that
any low-moisture food-item could be safely refrozen: nuts, coffee,
dried herbs, tea. Not counting things like mayonnaise, of course. Not
a pretty sight.
You aren't going to leave us hanging, are you? What happens when you
freeze mayonnaise?

It separates. Regular mayo uses egg as an emulsifier to keep the oil and
water part together in an emulsion. Freeze it and the two come apart.

I'm not sure WHAT the premade stuff in the jar does, though. It's nasty
enough to begin with I can't imagine separation making it any worse.
--scott
wow, I want to see what happens now, you have completely piqued my
interest. Hellman's here we come......

--
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/ The Sushi FAQ
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiotaku/ The Sushi Otaku Blog
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiyapedia/ Sushi-Ya-Pedia Restaurant Finder
HTTP://www.theteafaq.com/ The Tea FAQ
HTTP://www.jerkyfaq.com/ The Jerky FAQ
HTTP://www.omega3faq.com/ The Omega 3 Fatty Acids FAQ

Nigel ,
Thanks for your comments.
We, as a lay man, know that tea is hygrospic- it takes moisture from
the atmoshphere. And we also know that tea loses its intrinsic quality
once the tea has moisture content more than say 6 %. What is the
minimum atmospheric humidity, above which , this tea having 6 %
moisture will start gaining moisture from the atmosphere.
TIA
S. M. Changoiwala, Director
Gopaldhara Tea Co Pvt Ltd.
KOLKOTA
INDIA


From: Nigel


On Nov 28, 10:57 pm, Michael Plant wrote:

Now, I know that freezing many different kinds of wet veggies,
meats, and other food stuffs can radically change their consistency
by breaking down whatever gets broken down to change the
consistency of said foodstuffs. So, I'm wondering whether freezing
would alter the structure of the tea leaves, not for the better. After
all, tea leaves must retain *some* moisture content. Just
speculations based on nothing. Would accept serious comments on this.

Comments -
1. I never found any apparent organoleptic change in tea frozen at 6%
moisture content and below (this is still pretty dry - crisp between
the teeth - tea is regularly traded at around 8% mositure, bug growth
begins at 12-14% moisture, green veggies are at 80% plus).
2. Structure alteration is inversely proportional to freezing
temperature - hence I specify minus 18 deg C. Liquid nitrogen (minus
196 dec C) imparts "no" structural alteration so can be used for
storing viable gametes and/or embryos. May however be OTT even for a
fine TGY?

Nigel at Teacraft


On Nov 29, 1:18 pm, Nigel wrote:
On Nov 28, 10:57 pm, Michael Plant wrote:



Now, I know that freezing many different kinds of wet veggies,
meats, and other food stuffs can radically change their consistency
by breaking down whatever gets broken down to change the
consistency of said foodstuffs. So, I'm wondering whether freezing
would alter the structure of the tea leaves, not for the better. After
all, tea leaves must retain *some* moisture content. Just
speculations based on nothing. Would accept serious comments on this.

On Dec 1, 6:36 am, "
wrote:
Nigel ,
Thanks for your comments.
We, as a lay man, know that tea is hygrospic- it takes moisture from
the atmoshphere. And we also know that tea loses its intrinsic quality
once the tea has moisture content more than say 6 %. What is the
minimum atmospheric humidity, above which , this tea having 6 %
moisture will start gaining moisture from the atmosphere.

Excellent question! Teas lose or gain water to the atmosphere driven
by their own moisture content (%mc) and the moisture content of the
air around them (%RH). In a closed system (like a tea sack) they will
soon reach equilibrium ( = ERH - this is also termed water activity
Aw, a better way of measuring moisture content but not one that the
tea industry has yet embraced). In practical terms (and using the
data I have to hand) tea at 3%mc is in equilibrium with air at 5-7%RH
and will gain moisture at any humidity above this. This is a very low
humidity rarely found in nature hence we consider tea highly
hygroscopic because it is normally stored in wetter conditions than
this. Moisture sorption is not a straight line against humidity and
uptake is particularly rapid between 4 and 8%mc - thus at 5%mc a
Darjeeling tea will be in equilibrium at 19% RH, at 7% it equilibrates
at 57%RH and at 9%mc at 65%RH. In direct answer to your question (and
remember this is influenced by tea type, tea particle size, tea solids
content, and temperature) the minimum atmospheric humidity, above
which Darjeeling tea having 6% moisture will start gaining moisture
from the atmosphere is 48%RH at 20 deg C.

Nigel at Teacraft

Nigel writes:

On Dec 1, 6:36 am, "
wrote:
Nigel ,
Thanks for your comments.
We, as a lay man, know that tea is hygrospic- it takes moisture from
the atmoshphere. And we also know that tea loses its intrinsic quality
once the tea has moisture content more than say 6 %. What is the
minimum atmospheric humidity, above which , this tea having 6 %
moisture will start gaining moisture from the atmosphere.

Excellent question! Teas lose or gain water to the atmosphere
driven by their own moisture content (%mc) and the moisture content
of the air around them (%RH). In a closed system (like a tea sack)
they will soon reach equilibrium ( = ERH - this is also termed water
activity Aw, a better way of measuring moisture content but not one
that the tea industry has yet embraced). In practical terms (and
using the data I have to hand) tea at 3%mc is in equilibrium with
air at 5-7%RH and will gain moisture at any humidity above this.
This is a very low humidity rarely found in nature hence we consider
tea highly hygroscopic because it is normally stored in wetter
conditions than this. Moisture sorption is not a straight line
against humidity and uptake is particularly rapid between 4 and 8%mc
- thus at 5%mc a Darjeeling tea will be in equilibrium at 19% RH, at
7% it equilibrates at 57%RH and at 9%mc at 65%RH. In direct answer
to your question (and remember this is influenced by tea type, tea
particle size, tea solids content, and temperature) the minimum
atmospheric humidity, above which Darjeeling tea having 6% moisture
will start gaining moisture from the atmosphere is 48%RH at 20 deg
C.

I wonder if anyone knows at what room humidity you can maximize the
post-fermentation of Pu'er without introducing mildewy aromas from
whatever microbes cause them.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Nigel wrote:
In practical terms (and using the
data I have to hand) tea at 3%mc is in equilibrium with air at 5-7%RH
and will gain moisture at any humidity above this. This is a very low
humidity rarely found in nature hence we consider tea highly
hygroscopic because it is normally stored in wetter conditions than
this.

I live in the desert Southwest, where relative humidity routinely gets
down in the single digits in the early summer (before the monsoon
rains). In fact, the heat index is usually negative here! People think
"but it's a dry heat" is funny, but it's backed by science. I'll take
100 deg F with 10% humidity (feels like 95 deg) over 85 deg F with 80%
humidity (feels like 97) any day!

Alan