mostly referring to tea bags...the really chopped up stuff...

I think everyone claims they use the best tea leaf etc,
but is it true?
do they really go out and buy the best?
or do they grow their own and call whatever comes out the best?

do they just use 'good tea', or 'average tea' and then claim its the
best because average consumer has no way of telling otherwise and
they'll buy the tea just for the name on the box?

I would say for most brands what is in the teabag is the same for
loose if they sell it that way. This is certain for British brands.
Also for most Indian brands. So a companies 'best' is sold both bag
and loose. You can get a 'best' with a proprietary blend and a price
point attractive to consumers.

Jim

SN wrote:
mostly referring to tea bags...the really chopped up stuff...

I think everyone claims they use the best tea leaf etc,
but is it true?
do they really go out and buy the best?
or do they grow their own and call whatever comes out the best?

do they just use 'good tea', or 'average tea' and then claim its the
best because average consumer has no way of telling otherwise and
they'll buy the tea just for the name on the box?

On Oct 9, 6:03 am, SN wrote:
mostly referring to tea bags...the really chopped up stuff...

I think everyone claims they use the best tea leaf etc,
but is it true?
do they really go out and buy the best?
or do they grow their own and call whatever comes out the best?

do they just use 'good tea', or 'average tea' and then claim its the
best because average consumer has no way of telling otherwise and
they'll buy the tea just for the name on the box?

My feeling is that most of it is fannings - the stuff literally at the
bottom of the barrel. Whether that is quality tea or not is another
story.
I've had some green tea bags from China that were, obviously, swill.
I've had a couple of high-end tea bags (Repoblic of Tea,
comes to mind) that is not bad, at all.
Twinings doesn't seem to falter too seriously with a Prince Edward or
English Breakfast; just not "my cup of tea".
But, then, there is all that flavoured stuff and Red Rose and Lipton
and Salada - ugh!
Subjective again here.

On Oct 9, 6:00 pm, Shen wrote:
On Oct 9, 6:03 am, SN wrote:

mostly referring to tea bags...the really chopped up stuff...

I think everyone claims they use the best tea leaf etc,
but is it true?
do they really go out and buy the best?
or do they grow their own and call whatever comes out the best?

do they just use 'good tea', or 'average tea' and then claim its the
best because average consumer has no way of telling otherwise and
they'll buy the tea just for the name on the box?

My feeling is that most of it is fannings - the stuff literally at the
bottom of the barrel. Whether that is quality tea or not is another
story.
I've had some green tea bags from China that were, obviously, swill.
I've had a couple of high-end tea bags (Repoblic of Tea,
comes to mind) that is not bad, at all.
Twinings doesn't seem to falter too seriously with a Prince Edward or
English Breakfast; just not "my cup of tea".
But, then, there is all that flavoured stuff and Red Rose and Lipton
and Salada - ugh!
Subjective again here.

The quality of tea coming from the SAME tea garden can vary HUGELY
depending on location, timing, type of leaves etc.

Different tea gardens again can produce vastly different quality teas.

Different quality goes to make different products...

loose tea (different grades, kinds)
teabags
instant tea
tea extract

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

Agree to Julian ^^

In tea countries such as China, Taiwan, and Japan, they all have
grading systems of teas.
For the idea of real "best tea leaf", I bet the big brands won't use
it for mass consuming.
The champion Oolong tea in Taiwan will cost you thousands for 1kg.

I'm a tea importer, I know what grades of teas I'm purchasing, and
which location, which tea garden I'm purchasing from.
But I seldom see this kind of information listed on the package of big
tea brands..
Actually this was why I started the business. I'm Taiwanese and grew
up drinking tea. After moving to Canada, I used to buy teas from the
internet, but was frustrating to find the really tea aromas in my
memory.

On Oct 9, 6:00 pm, Shen wrote:
My feeling is that most of it is fannings - the stuff literally at the
bottom of the barrel. Whether that is quality tea or not is another
story.
Subjective again here.

Yes, highly subjective and not so accurate.

Fannings are commonly used in teabags as it is the high surface area
to volume ratio of a small grade that gives the fast brewing
charcteristic that many tea drinkers require from a teabag - and in
the UK like in the USA over 90% of tea is consumed via a teabag.
Countries that major on teas for the teabag market produce all their
teas as small grades - thus East Africa produces BOP1, PF, PD and D1
grades and these range from 1.5 mm particle diameter down to 0.2 mm.
Fannings and Dusts are NOT qualitywise "at the bottom of the barrel",
they are NOT "factory floor sweepings" (would that a factory floor
could produce the 300,000 tonnes a year of Fannings and Dust grades
that Kenya exports!) These small grades in many factories, in Kenya
and Rwanda for instance, are superb - and for their purpose -
impossible to improve upon.

Teabag quality is as good as the tea you put into it - and the quality
reflects the customers' taste. If teabag customers, in the main, want
a cheap, bland but consistent brew, then that is what they choose
(which is their right!) - it does not reflect badly on Lipton for
providing it, nor on teabags for containing it. I can readily admit
as a teaman of 30 years experience, and one surrounded daily by 160
loose teas from 19 different countries, that during the day I drink
gallons of tea brewed from teabags filled with small "chopped up
stuff" - CTC Fannings and Dusts blended from some of the best tea
gardens in Africa and Assam - Taylors of Harrogate's "Yorkshire Gold"
- which possibly is the acme of British tea quality. Taylors
certainly uses the very best teas in their Yorkshire Gold teabags, I
know many of the garden origins they use, and some of these are past
or present clients of mine so I know firsthand the skill of the
producers and the tea quality before it enters the blend.

Yes, there are some bad teabags - but equally there are many bad loose
teas.

Nigel at Teacraft

i had tried one wuyi oolong teabags which was very good. the leaves
were chopped but still it was good, apparently the tea was made to
supply to 6 stars hotel in China. but it didnt last for many brews
compared to loose leaf.

Generally, chinese and indian tea gradings are different. Indian teas
has better grading while chinese is quite hard to tell..

On Oct 10, 5:04 am, Nigel wrote:
On Oct 9, 6:00 pm, Shen wrote:

My feeling is that most of it is fannings - the stuff literally at the
bottom of the barrel. Whether that is quality tea or not is another
story.
Subjective again here.

Yes, highly subjective and not so accurate.

Fannings are commonly used in teabags as it is the high surface area
to volume ratio of a small grade that gives the fast brewing
charcteristic that many tea drinkers require from a teabag - and in
the UK like in the USA over 90% of tea is consumed via a teabag.
Countries that major on teas for the teabag market produce all their
teas as small grades - thus East Africa produces BOP1, PF, PD and D1
grades and these range from 1.5 mm particle diameter down to 0.2 mm.
Fannings and Dusts are NOT qualitywise "at the bottom of the barrel",
they are NOT "factory floor sweepings" (would that a factory floor
could produce the 300,000 tonnes a year of Fannings and Dust grades
that Kenya exports!) These small grades in many factories, in Kenya
and Rwanda for instance, are superb - and for their purpose -
impossible to improve upon.

Teabag quality is as good as the tea you put into it - and the quality
reflects the customers' taste. If teabag customers, in the main, want
a cheap, bland but consistent brew, then that is what they choose
(which is their right!) - it does not reflect badly on Lipton for
providing it, nor on teabags for containing it. I can readily admit
as a teaman of 30 years experience, and one surrounded daily by 160
loose teas from 19 different countries, that during the day I drink
gallons of tea brewed from teabags filled with small "chopped up
stuff" - CTC Fannings and Dusts blended from some of the best tea
gardens in Africa and Assam - Taylors of Harrogate's "Yorkshire Gold"
- which possibly is the acme of British tea quality. Taylors
certainly uses the very best teas in their Yorkshire Gold teabags, I
know many of the garden origins they use, and some of these are past
or present clients of mine so I know firsthand the skill of the
producers and the tea quality before it enters the blend.

Yes, there are some bad teabags - but equally there are many bad loose
teas.

Nigel at Teacraft

Thanks, Nigel. I always thought fannings were the least acceptable.
Good to know.
Shen

Thanks, Nigel. I always thought fannings were the least acceptable.

I don't necessarily agree with Nigel. Once you've crushed, torn, ripped,
shredded, smashed, sliced, diced, and minced a tea leaf into a billion bits
only slightly larger than grains of dust, I have a feeling that its
quality -- no matter how high it started -- has been severely degraded. By
deformation/destruction of the cell structures, chemical reactions with air,
whatever. But degraded nonetheless.

There might be "high" and "low" quality fannings, but IMHO they're all FAR
lower than less-processed leaves/buds.

On Oct 11, 10:30 am, "Slint Flig" wrote

I don't necessarily agree with Nigel.
There might be "high" and "low" quality fannings, but IMHO they're all FAR
lower than less-processed leaves/buds.

Any disagreement is due to our using the word "quality" in very
different ways. Yours to mean "of superior grade" or "degree of
excellence". Mine in the sense of "the totality of features and
characteristics of a tea that bear on its ability to satisfy stated or
implied needs. Not to be mistaken for "degree of excellence" or
"fitness for use" which meet only part of the definition. [ISO8402].
(1995-11-10)".

Of course if I take a Kenyan bush and make its tips into an orthodox
tea (as we did in Kenya in 2003) it can make an excellent HIGH quality
USA acceptable loose tea (stylish leaf, mellow, complex flavors)
however that same tea will not work well in a UK teabag - for that
specific use that very same tea is a LOW quality tea - it does not
have "the ability to satisfy the stated or implied needs" of a UK
teabag (i.e. to be finely divided, quick brewing, colory and
astringent). Here we have high and low quality in the same tea at the
same time - so who is right?

I have run CTC Dusts through my hands from a vibro sorter in Kenya
that were of such amazingly good quality ("products and services that
meet or exceed customers' expectations") that hairs stood up on my
neck. But I recognize that these same Dust teas are seen as trash in
the US market. Doesn't make you wrong - if they are not what you want
that's fair enough - but just recognize that there is no universal
agreement on what high quality means, nor can quality be measured on
an two dimensional absolute scale.

Nigel at Teacraft

On Oct 11, 8:57 am, Nigel wrote:
On Oct 11, 10:30 am, "Slint Flig" wrote



I don't necessarily agree with Nigel.
There might be "high" and "low" quality fannings, but IMHO they're all FAR
lower than less-processed leaves/buds.

Any disagreement is due to our using the word "quality" in very
different ways. Yours to mean "of superior grade" or "degree of
excellence". Mine in the sense of "the totality of features and
characteristics of a tea that bear on its ability to satisfy stated or
implied needs. Not to be mistaken for "degree of excellence" or
"fitness for use" which meet only part of the definition. [ISO8402].
(1995-11-10)".

Of course if I take a Kenyan bush and make its tips into an orthodox
tea (as we did in Kenya in 2003) it can make an excellent HIGH quality
USA acceptable loose tea (stylish leaf, mellow, complex flavors)
however that same tea will not work well in a UK teabag - for that
specific use that very same tea is a LOW quality tea - it does not
have "the ability to satisfy the stated or implied needs" of a UK
teabag (i.e. to be finely divided, quick brewing, colory and
astringent). Here we have high and low quality in the same tea at the
same time - so who is right?

I have run CTC Dusts through my hands from a vibro sorter in Kenya
that were of such amazingly good quality ("products and services that
meet or exceed customers' expectations") that hairs stood up on my
neck. But I recognize that these same Dust teas are seen as trash in
the US market. Doesn't make you wrong - if they are not what you want
that's fair enough - but just recognize that there is no universal
agreement on what high quality means, nor can quality be measured on
an two dimensional absolute scale.

Nigel at Teacraft

I am drinking some pre-breakfast Assam fannings tea which is EXACTLY
what I want at this time. A little later in the day I'll want
something with more leaf- flavor- nuance in it. Toci

On Oct 9, 9:03 am, SN wrote:
mostly referring to tea bags...the really chopped up stuff...

I think everyone claims they use the best tea leaf etc,
but is it true?
do they really go out and buy the best?
or do they grow their own and call whatever comes out the best?

do they just use 'good tea', or 'average tea' and then claim its the
best because average consumer has no way of telling otherwise and
they'll buy the tea just for the name on the box?

REPLY

The tea in teabags, unless you are buying from someone like Harney and
Sons, is tea dust or fannings, which brew up quickly. This is the
leftovers [generally] from the manufacture of high quality tea. Some
are good, some are not. Most really avid tea drinkers prefer whole
leaf teas, but everyone needs to decide for themselves what they like.

Shen wrote:

Thanks, Nigel. I always thought fannings were the least acceptable.
Good to know.

Well, part of the issue is that taking a high quality tea, chopping it
finely, and putting it into a bag where it is held in pretty tightly,
does not produce as good a cup of tea as taking the same leaves and
putting them into a basket or large infuser where they are held loosely
and have good flow around them.

But that has nothing really to do with the quality of the material itself.
And note that some small infusers are as bad as bags in terms of open flow.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

alpinelady writes:

On Oct 9, 9:03 am, SN wrote:
mostly referring to tea bags...the really chopped up stuff...

I think everyone claims they use the best tea leaf etc,
but is it true?
do they really go out and buy the best?
or do they grow their own and call whatever comes out the best?

do they just use 'good tea', or 'average tea' and then claim its the
best because average consumer has no way of telling otherwise and
they'll buy the tea just for the name on the box?

REPLY

The tea in teabags, unless you are buying from someone like Harney and
Sons, is tea dust or fannings, which brew up quickly. This is the
leftovers [generally] from the manufacture of high quality tea. Some
are good, some are not. Most really avid tea drinkers prefer whole
leaf teas, but everyone needs to decide for themselves what they like.

Leftovers? Look, I generally avoid teabags, and I don't drink a lot
of CTC tea, but the idea that CTC and the tiny bits that go into
teabags are the byproducts of manufacturing "good" tea is a myth.
Factories that produce these teas are *designed* to produce them.

Maybe this newsgroup needs not just an FAQ list, but also an FRF
(frequently repeated fallacies.) This one might come in as #3,
behind:

1) Black tea has more caffeine than green.

2) Thirty seconds of steeping will remove most of the caffeine from
tea leaves.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Oct 14, 11:30 am, Lewis Perin wrote:
alpinelady writes:
On Oct 9, 9:03 am, SN wrote:
mostly referring to tea bags...the really chopped up stuff...

I think everyone claims they use the best tea leaf etc,
but is it true?
do they really go out and buy the best?
or do they grow their own and call whatever comes out the best?

do they just use 'good tea', or 'average tea' and then claim its the
best because average consumer has no way of telling otherwise and
they'll buy the tea just for the name on the box?

REPLY

The tea in teabags, unless you are buying from someone like Harney and
Sons, is tea dust or fannings, which brew up quickly. This is the
leftovers [generally] from the manufacture of high quality tea. Some
are good, some are not. Most really avid tea drinkers prefer whole
leaf teas, but everyone needs to decide for themselves what they like.

Leftovers? Look, I generally avoid teabags, and I don't drink a lot
of CTC tea, but the idea that CTC and the tiny bits that go into
teabags are the byproducts of manufacturing "good" tea is a myth.
Factories that produce these teas are *designed* to produce them.

Maybe this newsgroup needs not just an FAQ list, but also an FRF
(frequently repeated fallacies.) This one might come in as #3,
behind:

1) Black tea has more caffeine than green.

2) Thirty seconds of steeping will remove most of the caffeine from
tea leaves.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /

yes that is a great idea to add to the FAQ