On Aug 3, 5:51 pm, cha bing wrote:
I also don't really like Darjeeling right now. I haven't really played
much with whites. I tried a few DJs, first and second flush, and they
were okay, but didn't thrill me.

But I feel compelled to celebrate two other comments made above, which
are (1) the great thing about tea is that there is enough variety out
there so as to fit your every mood. There are often times when I buy a
tea I don't like initially, only to crave it later . . . from seeing
what is above, this must be a common occurrence. It can drive me
crazy, such as when I crave one tea, only to buy a whole bunch and
realize a week later that I am actually craving something completely
different; (2) brewing parameters really can affect tea a lot. I guess
this is obvious, but anecdotedly I recently bought an aged oolong from
Hou De and didn't really like it at all when I tried to brew it gong
fu style. It tasted kind of musty and somehow incomplete. I was
lamenting the purchase. Yet one day on a whim I put a lesser amount in
my gaiwan and brewed it as a relatively lighter brew, which totally
changed the experience and brought out a lot of things I actually
liked about the tea.

I guess my lesson has been to never swear off one particular tea--but
rather to just say that it is not my current favorite.

Charles

Well said, Cha bing!
Shen

Hey, just to add a few comments on white tea he

1. I have been trying to source a white tea in China, and to my
surprise, the bulk price is not expensive at all, and not at all
compared to the like of authentic xihu longjing tea or houkeng taiping
houkui tea or dong ting biluochun tea.

2. The price quoted by Sheng is inflated, as he rightly commented on.
It is possible to source the highest grade (organically produced,
first round of spring harvest (ming qian) at much lower price from
Fujian.

3. There are two kinds of Chinese white tea. One is from Fuding, which
is indoor dried. The other is from Zhenhe, which is sun dried. I have
not tried both, but Chinese experts have never preferred one to
another. They have their own individual characteristics, at the
moment, I am open to both.

I think it is more important to get the tea garden and cropping dates.
Tea selection is always the single most important determinant of
quality.

Jing, for example, has always insisted that Zhenhe as superior, as it
was a tribute tea. It is misleadng, as White tea plant was first
invented in Fuding, and later successful cultivated in Zhenhe.

Zhenhe did have a tribute tea much earlier, but it was a steamed tea,
not a white tea.

4. The most lovely thing about the white tea I tried was the grape
favor, and the fact that it is always sweet no matter how you brew it.
But compared to the finer green tea I have, it lacks the aftertaste,
lacked the "cooked" favor, and far too cooling for me.

But still nice to have in the summer

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

Ephemeral is a term I use to descibe white tea taste. I wouldn't use
that to describe any DJ I've tasted. White teas can take a beating so
use boiling water, clog a pot, sit back and wait. Go to Chinatown and
buy some cheap Fujian SowMee. Be sure to have a snake handy. The
Yunnan Silver and Purple buds are very tasty and cheap by the 1/2 kilo
from Chinese sources.

Jim

toci wrote:
I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

Shen writes:

On Aug 3, 3:59 pm, Shen wrote:
On Aug 3, 2:15 pm, Lewis Perin wrote:
[...]
If it isn't (partially) sun-dried, it shouldn't be called white tea.

Lew, I believe this is totally sun-dried.
Shen

PS - From what I understand, most whites today are roasted dry.

I don't mean to be schoolmarmish, but my understanding is that a tea
that's dried completely with added heat, with no input from the sun,
is green. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm currently
enjoying a *green* Fuding Silver Needle tea - but sun-drying gives tea
a different "personality". For one thing, it's inevitably somewhat
oxidized, as green tea shouldn't be.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

that to describe any DJ I've tasted. White teas can take a beating so
use boiling water, clog a pot, sit back and wait. Go to Chinatown and
buy some cheap Fujian SowMee. Be sure to have a snake handy. The
Yunnan Silver and Purple buds are very tasty and cheap by the 1/2 kilo
from Chinese sources.

Hey Jim

I heartily agree with you, although I may need to further research the
brewing temperature just to be sure.

Most people recommend brewing white tea the same way as the more
delicate green tea at 70 to 80 degree celcius and steeping for 1 to 3
minutes.

But they forgot that the Da Bai tea plant produces very fat tea bud,
and it may take higher temperature and longer brewing time to extract
it.

Just had another 3 cups just now .. hmmm... not bad at all Probably
my last cup until my next order.

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

On Aug 4, 10:19 am, Space Cowboy wrote:
Ephemeral is a term I use to descibe white tea taste. I wouldn't use
that to describe any DJ I've tasted. White teas can take a beating so
use boiling water, clog a pot, sit back and wait. Go to Chinatown and
buy some cheap Fujian SowMee. Be sure to have a snake handy. The
Yunnan Silver and Purple buds are very tasty and cheap by the 1/2 kilo
from Chinese sources.

Jim



toci wrote:
I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Snake? Toci

I don't mean to be schoolmarmish, but my understanding is that a tea
that's dried completely with added heat, with no input from the sun,
is green. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm currently
enjoying a *green* Fuding Silver Needle tea - but sun-drying gives tea
a different "personality". For one thing, it's inevitably somewhat
oxidized, as green tea shouldn't be.


Lewis

If you don't mind me asking, what colour is the tea liquor of your
"green" Fuding Bai Hao tea?

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

juliantai writes:

I don't mean to be schoolmarmish, but my understanding is that a tea
that's dried completely with added heat, with no input from the sun,
is green. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm currently
enjoying a *green* Fuding Silver Needle tea - but sun-drying gives tea
a different "personality". For one thing, it's inevitably somewhat
oxidized, as green tea shouldn't be.


Lewis

If you don't mind me asking, what colour is the tea liquor of your
"green" Fuding Bai Hao tea?

Not at all. It's the palest shade of green. And, while these terms
seem to have some elasticity, it's billed as Yin Zhen, not Bai Hao.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Aug 4, 9:30 pm, juliantai wrote:
I don't mean to be schoolmarmish, but my understanding is that a tea
that's dried completely with added heat, with no input from the sun,
is green. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm currently
enjoying a *green* Fuding Silver Needle tea - but sun-drying gives tea
a different "personality". For one thing, it's inevitably somewhat
oxidized, as green tea shouldn't be.


This is my last post for the week, I will go crazy if I look at the
PC anymore.
This online thing is getting too addictive. I think I have to go back
to reading a book
and baby-sitting.



As far as I am aware, white goes through two processes:

1. withering, which take on average 2 days
2. drying

Where the drying can be baking or sun-drying.

The important bit is the withering. The key is to encourage the
chemical reactions to take place, without causing the tea polyphenol
to oxidise. In this long process, moisture is reduced to mere 20%.

Ambient temperature, moisture, air-flow, how the leaves are spread out
need to be carefully regulated.

2 days are pretty long time, so this withering process is considered
"heavy", and causes the tea to oxidise slightly, regardless of what
happens afterwards (baking or sun drying).

In another note, no manufacturer can ever guarantee that their tea is
completely sun-dried, because if day 3 happens to be cloudy or rainy,
they have to use baking. The tea can't wait.

There is another variety of white tea called "new white tea", which is
more oxidised, produces a tea liquor that is orangy in colour and
tastes more like green tea but without the fragrance.

It comes from Fuding, so I was just wondering if this is the "green
white tea" Lewis was referring too.

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

Alex wrote:
Have you tried the newly available oolong-style Darjeelings? If they
aren't strong enough, it's a short step to poteen or asphalt.

DogMa, can you recommend a source for those?
Alex

I've had some stunners from a new mail-order source,

tea AT finesttippy.com

who buys small lots of limited offerings. No web site yet, AFAIK.
Disclosu I got some free samples, and liked all of them. (More at
RFDT posts of 3/1 and 3/5/07.) I'm told that a couple of other US
vendors have access to specialty Darjeelings of this caliber, but
haven't tested them yet.

As a broader statement, on which matter others here have commented:
until about 50 years ago, Darjeelings were offered with greater
fermentation. Since my youth, they've gone as green as a standard TGY.
Personally, I don't think that the DJ aroma/taste profile works at all
at low fermentation; too astringent and fragrant with not enough body.
Now that oolong-style DJs are back, I'm a frequent drinker, either naked
or with a little milk - seems to work just fine either way, to my
surprise. Planning to try icing some now that hot weather is here.

-DM

On Aug 5, 5:39 am, juliantai wrote:
On Aug 4, 9:30 pm, juliantai wrote:


As far as I am aware, white goes through two processes:

1. withering, which take on average 2 days
2. drying

Where the drying can be baking or sun-drying.

The drying is mostly done through low temperature baking. Sun-drying
will take too long for the tea and encourage cell oxidation. Oxidation
does not occur in the processing of green tea, but for white tea, a
low percentage of oxidation usually takes place - the new 'white tea'
you mentioned has higher oxidation level, possibly to mimic the flavor
of aged white tea, but it is not quite close. I think both 'new white
tea' and 'green silver needle' are the lazy man's alternative to white
tea, since the processing of white tea is very time consuming, making
a green tea or making it with higher oxidation level are a much
simpler process without having to supervise the processing too
closely, but still, each tea has its fans and followers.

Withering takes place in both outdoor and indoor. The withering has
to move between these two areas as soon as either place is deem
unfavorable - the sun getting too hot, the leaves unable to reduce
moisture indoor within desired time, etc.

Danny

On Aug 4, 3:02 am, toci wrote:
I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

I never like white teas but darjeelings are fine to me. I drink them
with milk and sugar. I seldom drink them without them. I would
definately try lochan teas from the review above.

juliantai writes:

[...Lew: white tea must be at least partially sun-dried...]
[...]

As far as I am aware, white goes through two processes:

1. withering, which take on average 2 days
2. drying

Where the drying can be baking or sun-drying.

But sun-drying can't remove enough moisture to yield stable finished
tea, can it? Tea isn't grown and manufactured it deserts, after all.

The important bit is the withering. The key is to encourage the
chemical reactions to take place, without causing the tea polyphenol
to oxidise. In this long process, moisture is reduced to mere 20%.

Agreed, but what kind of withering are you speaking of? You're saying
it takes place indoors, right?

I think I was wrong to say white tea *must* be sun-dried, but it's
easy to find reputable sources on the Web that assert that the *best*
white tea is sun-dried:

http://jingtea.com/tea-knowledge/tea...and-production

so that withering would be done in the sun.

Julian, you've actually seen this wither-then-dry manufacture done in
Fujian, haven't you? I certainly don't want to put myself in the
position of denying what you've seen with your own eyes!

Ambient temperature, moisture, air-flow, how the leaves are spread out
need to be carefully regulated.

2 days are pretty long time, so this withering process is considered
"heavy", and causes the tea to oxidise slightly, regardless of what
happens afterwards (baking or sun drying).

In another note, no manufacturer can ever guarantee that their tea is
completely sun-dried, because if day 3 happens to be cloudy or rainy,
they have to use baking. The tea can't wait.

But if the sun exposure were done on the *first* day, a manufacturer
could pluck leaves and buds destined for white tea only on sunny days,
right? Perhaps the Fuding green Silver Needle I have was plucked on a
cloudy or rainy day. Not to mention Fuding and Zhenghe red teas...

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

But sun-drying can't remove enough moisture to yield stable finished
tea, can it? Tea isn't grown and manufactured it deserts, after all.

Withering takes the moisture down to 20%. Using the Zhenhe style,
white tea is left in hot sun to dry all the way (6% and below).

But if day 3 is a cloudy/rainy day it is a different story.

Agreed, but what kind of withering are you speaking of? You're saying
it takes place indoors, right?

As Danny hinted, there are 3 types of withering: natural, heated
indoor, and combination.

Natural withering can take place indoor or outdoor. If it is exposed
to sun, weak sun is used.

The Fuding white tea used all three. Zhenghe tend to use sun drying,
subject to weather.

Julian, you've actually seen this wither-then-dry manufacture done in
Fujian, haven't you? I certainly don't want to put myself in the
position of denying what you've seen with your own eyes!

Lewis, I am open to challenge, and learning like everyone else. Tea
making is such a complex subject that unless you are a pro (not
myself, maybe only Nigel and other tea garden owners), you can never
be sure of what actually happen.

But if the sun exposure were done on the *first* day, a manufacturer
could pluck leaves and buds destined for white tea only on sunny days,
right? Perhaps the Fuding green Silver Needle I have was plucked on a
cloudy or rainy day. Not to mention Fuding and Zhenghe red teas...

The harvesting tends to take place on a sunny day, as any teas plucked
during a rainy day will be bad. It just won't have the right chemical
composition.

What distinguish the Zhenghe style is that the final drying uses sun,
rather than the oven. Fuding tea can uses sun for withering too, but
they never use the sun for drying.

The Zhenghe style may take shortcut in this way, akin to what you
suggested.

Pick the tea on a sunny day, sun dry in the morning for 3 hours, then
leave indoor to wither naturally. Finally oven-bake indoor. If done
this way, I can't see much difference between the Fuding and Zhenghe
style.

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

On Aug 4, 12:02 am, toci wrote:
I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

hello toci,

good day to you - i hope you had a wonderful weekend! i am ankit from
india - just returned from a trip to bhutan and the first thing that i
have landed myself into is this really intresting discussions on
darjeeling white teas - i love to talk to people on the subject of
"Darjeeling"

i do not know which white teas of darjeeling you have tried or drunk -
i have a small request to make - please log on to www.teasetc.com and
try the thurbo white tea - if your opinion doesnt change about
darjeeling whites i would love to send you some whites from my
personal collection of rare teas - free of any charge.

i personally believe that a lot of people for the sake of making money
are misutilising the name darjeeling and it could be to the extent as
mentioned by one of our friends on this usenet group that the tea you
were supplied was not a real darjeeling produce - i do not gurantee
that - just one of the options.

the darjeeling silver needles are light liquoring and muscatel tasting
teas that leave a very sweet aftertaste while the bai mu dans are
compared stronger and the oolongs are more on the white tea side but
surely they have more strenghth than the whites.

i am not trying to change your views -- my motive is only to actually
try to get you to taste the right darjeeling teas before coming to a
final conclusion that darjeeling white teas are not your type.

regarding the darjeelings - if we are talking of blacks - you need to
go to www.teasource.com and try his goomtee and jungpana second flush
2007 black teas - your views are sure to change - i can gurantee it
(gold help me - Amen)

looking forward to your reply soon!


regards
ankit
www.doketea.com