Why is ChaYe used almost exclusively over Cha in a company name? I
double checked Google and my Rosetta Stone to verify the pattern. For
example ABC Tea Company uses ChaYe for Tea just not the single
character Cha. I noticed that again this weekend when helping Mal on
the second line of his CNNP neifei. The second line should read
Yunnan TeaLeaf(ChaYe) Branch Company not Yunnan Tea Branch Company. I
see this also in travel guides where ChaYe is used on the menu and not
just Cha. It looks like to me the universal term for tea in China is
ChaYe and not Cha.

Jim

Jim,

Cha ye = tea leaves
Cha = the tea in liquid form

That's because the company that you refer to does not sell tea in
liquid form. The produce and supply customers with the leaves.

Cha is still the universal term used for tea, but only in the context
of drinking it.
He cha (yum cha in cantonese) = drinking tea

If it's cha ye on the menu, most likely the restaurant/lounge/etc is
serving you with the tea leaves...not an already-brewed tea.

My 2 cents.

Phyll

On Apr 9, 10:01 am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Why is ChaYe used almost exclusively over Cha in a company name? I
double checked Google and my Rosetta Stone to verify the pattern. For
example ABC Tea Company uses ChaYe for Tea just not the single
character Cha. I noticed that again this weekend when helping Mal on
the second line of his CNNP neifei. The second line should read
Yunnan TeaLeaf(ChaYe) Branch Company not Yunnan Tea Branch Company. I
see this also in travel guides where ChaYe is used on the menu and not
just Cha. It looks like to me the universal term for tea in China is
ChaYe and not Cha.

Jim

Jim,

That's because the company that you refer to does not sell tea in
liquid form. They produce and supply the leaves.

Cha ye = tea leaves
Cha = the tea in liquid form

I guess in English we understand in which form the tea is depending on
the context, but my understanding is that in Chinese they use the noun
"ye" to clarify that it is the leaves they are referring to, and not
the liquid tea.

Cha is the universal term used for tea, though in daily use it is
understood as the liquid form.

He cha (yum cha in cantonese) = drinking tea

To further complicate, in the hokkien dialect, however, we (my
father's side of the family speaks hokkien) say "chia(k) de", which
means "eat tea" to refer to the act of drinking tea.

If it's cha ye on the menu, most likely the restaurant/lounge/etc is
serving the tea leaves...not an already-brewed tea.

My 2 cents.

Phyll
----------------------------------------------------------
http://phyllsheng.blogspot.com
www.winexiles.com
....contributes at www.tching.com
----------------------------------------------------------



On Apr 9, 10:01 am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Why is ChaYe used almost exclusively over Cha in a company name? I
double checked Google and my Rosetta Stone to verify the pattern. For
example ABC Tea Company uses ChaYe for Tea just not the single
character Cha. I noticed that again this weekend when helping Mal on
the second line of his CNNP neifei. The second line should read
Yunnan TeaLeaf(ChaYe) Branch Company not Yunnan Tea Branch Company. I
see this also in travel guides where ChaYe is used on the menu and not
just Cha. It looks like to me the universal term for tea in China is
ChaYe and not Cha.

Jim

On Apr 10, 1:01 am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Why is ChaYe used almost exclusively over Cha in a company name? I
double checked Google and my Rosetta Stone to verify the pattern. For
example ABC Tea Company uses ChaYe for Tea just not the single
character Cha. I noticed that again this weekend when helping Mal on
the second line of his CNNP neifei. The second line should read
Yunnan TeaLeaf(ChaYe) Branch Company not Yunnan Tea Branch Company. I
see this also in travel guides where ChaYe is used on the menu and not
just Cha. It looks like to me the universal term for tea in China is
ChaYe and not Cha.

Jim

I think Phyll is largely right, although I think what you can say is
that while Cha refers to both the dry and wet versions of the thing,
Chaye can ONLY mean the dry leaves. You never drink Chaye. You drink
Cha. You can brew, however, both Cha or Chaye.

So in company names, it makes sense because they deal in tea leaves.
Also, don't confuse Tea Leaves with Tea Company/Industry, which is
also pronounced Chaye.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

In addition to Phyll's point about Cha Ye referring to the leaves as
opposed to the beverage, there's also another word Ye having nothing
to do with leaves. When it's used in the name of a tea company, Cha
Ye more or less means "tea company", not "tea leaves".

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
recently updated: Gao Li Gong Shan

'tis true
a different character "ye" means company...
(phyll writes a note to himself)

On Apr 9, 11:26 am, Lewis Perin wrote:
In addition to Phyll's point about Cha Ye referring to the leaves as
opposed to the beverage, there's also another word Ye having nothing
to do with leaves. When it's used in the name of a tea company, Cha
Ye more or less means "tea company", not "tea leaves".

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
recently updated: Gao Li Gong Shan

Lew,

I'll respond to you. You,et al,say it is a different Ye. Plug this
string into Google to see the companies that use ChaYe in their name:

茶�公�

It means Cha(Ye) GongSi or Tea(Leaf) Company. The Ye second character
means leaf and is 'silent'. If the use were limited I would agree it
has an alternate meaning like industry or dry leaf as suggested. One
of my dictionaries says ChaYe means tea as the first translation, and
tea leaves as the second. Chinese meaning is taken from the usage so
I don't see why ChaYe would be required in a company name versus Cha
or even on a menu.

Jim

On Apr 9, 12:26Â*pm, Lewis Perin wrote:
In addition to Phyll's point about Cha Ye referring to the leaves as
opposed to the beverage, there's also another word Ye having nothing
to do with leaves. Â*When it's used in the name of a tea company, Cha
Ye more or less means "tea company", not "tea leaves".

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
recently updated: Gao Li Gong Shan

On Apr 9, 12:25Â*pm, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Lew,

I'll respond to you. Â*You,et al,say it is a different Ye. Â*Plug this
string into Google to see the companies that use ChaYe in their name:

茶�公�

It means Cha(Ye) GongSi or Tea(Leaf) Company. Â*The Ye second character
means leaf and is 'silent'. Â*If the use were limited I would agree it
has an alternate meaning like industry or dry leaf as suggested. Â*One
of my dictionaries says ChaYe means tea as the first translation, and
tea leaves as the second. Â*Chinese meaning is taken from the usage so
I don't see why ChaYe would be required in a company name versus Cha
or even on a menu.

Jim

On Apr 9, 12:26Â*pm, Lewis Perin wrote:



In addition to Phyll's point about Cha Ye referring to the leaves as
opposed to the beverage, there's also another word Ye having nothing
to do with leaves. Â*When it's used in the name of a tea company, Cha
Ye more or less means "tea company", not "tea leaves".

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
recently updated: Gao Li Gong Shan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Never heard of a Chinese character used silently
(of course, you say, it's silent! So how can you hear it?

"Space Cowboy" writes:

Lew,

I'll respond to you. You,et al,say it is a different Ye.

No, I said that *in addition* to Ye as Leaf there's also Ye as Company.

Plug this string into Google to see the companies that use ChaYe in
their name:
[...]

Sure, but look here as well:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&h... &safe=images

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

In India, Hindi speakers (north India) use Chaye for both leaves and the
brew. Bengali speakers (Eastern India) say Cha instead of Chaye for the
same thing.

I always thought that these meant the same thing (in India).

Lewis Perin wrote:
"Space Cowboy" writes:

Lew,

I'll respond to you. You,et al,say it is a different Ye.

No, I said that *in addition* to Ye as Leaf there's also Ye as Company.

Plug this string into Google to see the companies that use ChaYe in
their name:
[...]

Sure, but look here as well:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&h... &safe=images

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Apr 10, 3:25Â*am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Lew,

I'll respond to you. Â*You,et al,say it is a different Ye. Â*Plug this
string into Google to see the companies that use ChaYe in their name:

茶�公�

It means Cha(Ye) GongSi or Tea(Leaf) Company. Â*The Ye second character
means leaf and is 'silent'. Â*If the use were limited I would agree it
has an alternate meaning like industry or dry leaf as suggested. Â*One
of my dictionaries says ChaYe means tea as the first translation, and
tea leaves as the second. Â*Chinese meaning is taken from the usage so
I don't see why ChaYe would be required in a company name versus Cha
or even on a menu.

Jim

You are taking this too literally. It really is just a case of
different usage in different languages. You won't translate
somebody's names as "XYZ Tea Leaves Company", you'd give them a more
appropriate name in the language that you're translating to, in this
case English, and call it "XYZ Tea Company".

Convention has it that when used in "XYZ company", the compound Chaye
is more often used than just Cha. That is not to say, however, that
Chaye, and not Cha, is tea. Both are tea, and they have different
usages that do not overlap. You simply cannot call the drink "chaye",
for that is incorrect in Chinese and you will be laughed at if you say
so to any native speaker if you say something like "wo xihuan he
chaye" (I like to drink tea [leaves]). It's just wrong. In English
there's no distinction between tea the liquid and tea the solid, but
in Chinese that is expressed through the terms Cha and Chaye.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

MarshalN,

So in ChinGlish is it 'I buy cha' or 'I buy chaye' Or 'I went to the
cha shoppe' or 'I went to the chaye shoppe'. I'm trying to flush out
the particular usage more than anything else. If ChaYe is the term to
use for Tea when not drinking it is darn close to what I said.

xiexie,
Jim

PS Is anyone using the Google PinYin IME? Yesterday they apologized
for using another Chinese search engine character set and promised to
cease and desist. It also opened up some security hole for Vista
which was patched. Their character lookup is simply based on the
character frequency in their Web index. I'm writing one based on the
500 most commonly used characters in Chinese. I wished I could get
Google to give me a dump like that without me using some list.


On Apr 10, 3:31Â*am, "MarshalN" wrote:
On Apr 10, 3:25Â*am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:

Lew,

I'll respond to you. Â*You,et al,say it is a different Ye. Â*Plug this
string into Google to see the companies that use ChaYe in their name:

茶�公�

It means Cha(Ye) GongSi or Tea(Leaf) Company. Â*The Ye second character
means leaf and is 'silent'. Â*If the use were limited I would agree it
has an alternate meaning like industry or dry leaf as suggested. Â*One
of my dictionaries says ChaYe means tea as the first translation, and
tea leaves as the second. Â*Chinese meaning is taken from the usage so
I don't see why ChaYe would be required in a company name versus Cha
or even on a menu.

Jim

You are taking this too literally. Â*It really is just a case of
different usage in different languages. Â*You won't translate
somebody's names as "XYZ Tea Leaves Company", you'd give them a more
appropriate name in the language that you're translating to, in this
case English, and call it "XYZ Tea Company".

Convention has it that when used in "XYZ company", the compound Chaye
is more often used than just Cha. Â*That is not to say, however, that
Chaye, and not Cha, is tea. Â*Both are tea, and they have different
usages that do not overlap. Â*You simply cannot call the drink "chaye",
for that is incorrect in Chinese and you will be laughed at if you say
so to any native speaker if you say something like "wo xihuan he
chaye" (I like to drink tea [leaves]). Â*It's just wrong. Â*In English
there's no distinction between tea the liquid and tea the solid, but
in Chinese that is expressed through the terms Cha and Chaye.

MarshalN

On Apr 10, 1:01Â*am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Why is ChaYe used almost exclusively over Cha in a company name? Â*I
double checked Google and my Rosetta Stone to verify the pattern. Â*For
example ABC Tea Company uses ChaYe for Tea just not the single
character Cha. Â*I noticed that again this weekend when helping Mal on
the second line of his CNNP neifei. Â*The second line should read
Yunnan TeaLeaf(ChaYe) Branch Company not Yunnan Tea Branch Company. Â*I
see this also in travel guides where ChaYe is used on the menu and not
just Cha. Â*It looks like to me the universal term for tea in China is
ChaYe and not Cha.

Jim

茶� tea leaves
茶业 tea company

So in ChinGlish is it 'I buy cha' or 'I buy chaye' Or 'I went to the
cha shoppe' or 'I went to the chaye shoppe'.

Using Chinglish would be more confusing.

A Chinese storekeeper will say in mandarin "xienshen, yao mai chaye,
ma?" (mr., would you like to buy some tea (leaves)?).
To which you'll respond "xe, wo yau mai chaye." (yes, I'd like to buy
some tea (leaves).) Of course, this sounds like a bookish response,
as an adult you'd be more likely to say something like "yes, what's
good here?" or dive straight into the particulars. However, if you
said "...yao mai cha." (without using ye), the storekeeper will
understand, too, but if they are also in the business of selling
canned tea beverages, then those will be included in the possibilty.

Then the storekeeper will probably ask you "xienshen, ni xihuan he
seme cha?" (mr., what kind of tea do you like to drink?).
To which you could say "wo xihuan he pu'er cha" (I like drinking pu'er
tea)...again bookish answer. In real, just say "pu'er" and you'll be
understood.



On Apr 10, 7:17Â*am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
MarshalN,

So in ChinGlish is it 'I buy cha' or 'I buy chaye' Or 'I went to the
cha shoppe' or 'I went to the chaye shoppe'. Â*I'm trying to flush out
the particular usage more than anything else. Â*If ChaYe is the term to
use for Tea when not drinking it is darn close to what I said.

xiexie,
Jim

PS Â*Is anyone using the Google PinYin IME? Â*Yesterday they apologized
for using another Chinese search engine character set and promised to
cease and desist. Â*It also opened up some security hole for Vista
which was patched. Â*Their character lookup is simply based on the
character frequency in their Web index. Â*I'm writing one based on the
500 most commonly used characters in Chinese. Â*I wished I could get
Google to give me a dump like that without me using some list.

On Apr 10, 3:31Â*am, "MarshalN" wrote:



On Apr 10, 3:25Â*am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:

Lew,

I'll respond to you. Â*You,et al,say it is a different Ye. Â*Plug this
string into Google to see the companies that use ChaYe in their name:

茶�公�

It means Cha(Ye) GongSi or Tea(Leaf) Company. Â*The Ye second character
means leaf and is 'silent'. Â*If the use were limited I would agree it
has an alternate meaning like industry or dry leaf as suggested. Â*One
of my dictionaries says ChaYe means tea as the first translation, and
tea leaves as the second. Â*Chinese meaning is taken from the usage so
I don't see why ChaYe would be required in a company name versus Cha
or even on a menu.

Jim

You are taking this too literally. Â*It really is just a case of
different usage in different languages. Â*You won't translate
somebody's names as "XYZ Tea Leaves Company", you'd give them a more
appropriate name in the language that you're translating to, in this
case English, and call it "XYZ Tea Company".

Convention has it that when used in "XYZ company", the compound Chaye
is more often used than just Cha. Â*That is not to say, however, that
Chaye, and not Cha, is tea. Â*Both are tea, and they have different
usages that do not overlap. Â*You simply cannot call the drink "chaye",
for that is incorrect in Chinese and you will be laughed at if you say
so to any native speaker if you say something like "wo xihuan he
chaye" (I like to drink tea [leaves]). Â*It's just wrong. Â*In English
there's no distinction between tea the liquid and tea the solid, but
in Chinese that is expressed through the terms Cha and Chaye.

MarshalN- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks for the examples. I can use ChaYe to mean tea(leaves) if I'm
not talking about Cha the drink. I know you are really using the
disyllabic dictionary word ChaYe for tealeaves which is why I said
leaves is silent not in any Chinese sense but in Western meaning. I'm
still not sure if it is cha or chaye shangdian. I'm bookish enough to
know to answer the ma interrogatory with a simple mai.

Jim

On Apr 10, 10:17Â*am, "Phyll" wrote:
So in ChinGlish is it 'I buy cha' or 'I buy chaye' Or 'I went to the
cha shoppe' or 'I went to the chaye shoppe'.

Using Chinglish would be more confusing.

A Chinese storekeeper will say in mandarin "xienshen, yao mai chaye,
ma?" (mr., would you like to buy some tea (leaves)?).
To which you'll respond "xe, wo yau mai chaye." (yes, I'd like to buy
some tea (leaves).) Â*Of course, this sounds like a bookish response,
as an adult you'd be more likely to say something like "yes, what's
good here?" or dive straight into the particulars. Â*However, if you
said "...yao mai cha." (without using ye), the storekeeper will
understand, too, but if they are also in the business of selling
canned tea beverages, then those will be included in the possibilty.

Then the storekeeper will probably ask you "xienshen, ni xihuan he
seme cha?" (mr., what kind of tea do you like to drink?).
To which you could say "wo xihuan he pu'er cha" (I like drinking pu'er
tea)...again bookish answer. Â*In real, just say "pu'er" and you'll be
understood.

On Apr 10, 7:17Â*am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:



MarshalN,

So in ChinGlish is it 'I buy cha' or 'I buy chaye' Or 'I went to the
cha shoppe' or 'I went to the chaye shoppe'. Â*I'm trying to flush out
the particular usage more than anything else. Â*If ChaYe is the term to
use for Tea when not drinking it is darn close to what I said.

xiexie,
Jim

PS Â*Is anyone using the Google PinYin IME? Â*Yesterday they apologized
for using another Chinese search engine character set and promised to
cease and desist. Â*It also opened up some security hole for Vista
which was patched. Â*Their character lookup is simply based on the
character frequency in their Web index. Â*I'm writing one based on the
500 most commonly used characters in Chinese. Â*I wished I could get
Google to give me a dump like that without me using some list.

On Apr 10, 3:31Â*am, "MarshalN" wrote:

On Apr 10, 3:25Â*am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:

Lew,

I'll respond to you. Â*You,et al,say it is a different Ye. Â*Plug this
string into Google to see the companies that use ChaYe in their name:

茶�公�

It means Cha(Ye) GongSi or Tea(Leaf) Company. Â*The Ye second character
means leaf and is 'silent'. Â*If the use were limited I would agree it
has an alternate meaning like industry or dry leaf as suggested. Â*One
of my dictionaries says ChaYe means tea as the first translation, and
tea leaves as the second. Â*Chinese meaning is taken from the usage so
I don't see why ChaYe would be required in a company name versus Cha
or even on a menu.

Jim

You are taking this too literally. Â*It really is just a case of
different usage in different languages. Â*You won't translate
somebody's names as "XYZ Tea Leaves Company", you'd give them a more
appropriate name in the language that you're translating to, in this
case English, and call it "XYZ Tea Company".

Convention has it that when used in "XYZ company", the compound Chaye
is more often used than just Cha. Â*That is not to say, however, that
Chaye, and not Cha, is tea. Â*Both are tea, and they have different
usages that do not overlap. Â*You simply cannot call the drink "chaye",
for that is incorrect in Chinese and you will be laughed at if you say
so to any native speaker if you say something like "wo xihuan he
chaye" (I like to drink tea [leaves]). Â*It's just wrong. Â*In English
there's no distinction between tea the liquid and tea the solid, but
in Chinese that is expressed through the terms Cha and Chaye.

MarshalN