It's just a theory, somewhat supported by science:
http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html

Here is what I believe to be true. Water is basically gel with
molecules bonding and un-bonding into clusters, generally not more
than 25 molecules in size, mostly 4-15. Negative ions promote water
molecules forming in clusters. Ionic minerals are what make water
taste good--that is, they are minerals with extra electrons which help
the water form into clusters around it. One might extrapolate that
these mineralized clusters may also bind the 'flavor' of the tea to
the water, giving a better tasting brew. When you bombard water with
radiation of any kind, it will neutralize some quantity of negative
ions in the water, thus removing the water's electrical charge. I
don't know if it leaves any of the water or minerals with a positive
charge (acidic). If you remove all the negative ions, you get neutral
unstructured water with teeny rocks (minerals) in it. It can't
possibly be a good conductor of flavor.

Scientists--do you have any thoughts?

On Apr 4, 9:23 am, DogMa wrote:
Danica wrote:
Microwaves destroy the structure of the water. It will never taste as
good as if it was boiled.

Interesting assertion. Reference, please?

Microwaves may disrupt the structure of water - perhaps as much as
stirring, though at a different level. But I was not aware that liquid
water has *any* structure that's preserved on sensible time-scales, and
would be fascinated to know more.

-DM

I looked at the website you posted.

One, water has absolutely no long-term internal structure. None at
all. If its internal strucutre is disturbed, it returns to equilibrium
almost instantly. Like the website said, within a few trillionths of a
second. Beware of any theories that aren't supported by both
authoritative fact and scientific experiment. Its structure as a
solvent is also highly unstable: "The consensus among chemists is that
any temporary disruption of the water structure by a dissolved agent
would disappear within a fraction of a second after its removal by
dilution, owing to the vigorous thermal motions of the water
molecules."

Two, microwaves are not ionizing radiation--if they were, then radar
would give you cancer, or maybe kill you. The sparking caused when
metal is microwaved is caused by the metal acting like an antenna and
picking up energy off the microwaves. It's not caused by ionization.
(Radar doesn't give you cancer. Neither do cell phones.)

The reason microwaved water tastes different (if it actually does) is
probably due to its higher content of dissolved gases. To see for
yourself, try microwaving a cup of water to boiling, then disturb it
by, say, throwing a teabag in it. Disturbing the water will cause a
bunch of it to boil off.

On Apr 5, 6:17 pm, "Danica" wrote:
It's just a theory, somewhat supported by science:http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html

Here is what I believe to be true. Water is basically gel with
molecules bonding and un-bonding into clusters, generally not more
than 25 molecules in size, mostly 4-15. Negative ions promote water
molecules forming in clusters. Ionic minerals are what make water
taste good--that is, they are minerals with extra electrons which help
the water form into clusters around it. One might extrapolate that
these mineralized clusters may also bind the 'flavor' of the tea to
the water, giving a better tasting brew. When you bombard water with
radiation of any kind, it will neutralize some quantity of negative
ions in the water, thus removing the water's electrical charge. I
don't know if it leaves any of the water or minerals with a positive
charge (acidic). If you remove all the negative ions, you get neutral
unstructured water with teeny rocks (minerals) in it. It can't
possibly be a good conductor of flavor.

Scientists--do you have any thoughts?

On Apr 4, 9:23 am, DogMa wrote:

Danica wrote:
Microwaves destroy the structure of the water. It will never taste as
good as if it was boiled.

Interesting assertion. Reference, please?

Microwaves may disrupt the structure of water - perhaps as much as
stirring, though at a different level. But I was not aware that liquid
water has *any* structure that's preserved on sensible time-scales, and
would be fascinated to know more.

-DM

Danica wrote:
It's just a theory, somewhat supported by science:
http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html

Here is what I believe to be true. Water is basically gel with
molecules bonding and un-bonding into clusters, generally not more
than 25 molecules in size, mostly 4-15. Negative ions promote water
molecules forming in clusters. *** Ionic minerals are what make water
taste good--that is, they are minerals with extra electrons which help
the water form into clusters around it. One might extrapolate that
these mineralized clusters may also bind the 'flavor' of the tea to
the water, giving a better tasting brew. When you bombard water with
radiation of any kind, it will neutralize some quantity of negative
ions in the water, thus removing the water's electrical charge. I
don't know if it leaves any of the water or minerals with a positive
charge (acidic). If you remove all the negative ions, you get neutral
unstructured water with teeny rocks (minerals) in it. It can't
possibly be a good conductor of flavor.

Scientists--do you have any thoughts?

Here are three for starters: Nothing south of the *** has anything
substantive to do with science. While beliefs play a real role in
sensory experience, prescriptive pronouncements about matters that are
speculative only insofar as they have not been compared with fact
probably do no-one a service. And there is a wonderful irony in the use
of scientific lexicon and syntax in making what amount to faith-based,
anti-scientific assertions, a practice regrettably prevalent in the
greater mythos of tea.

Sorry, but you asked.

-DM

http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html

Here is what I believe to be true. Water is basically gel with
molecules bonding and un-bonding into clusters, generally not more
than 25 molecules in size, mostly 4-15. Negative ions promote water
molecules forming in clusters. Ionic minerals are what make water
taste good--that is, they are minerals with extra electrons which help
the water form into clusters around it. One might extrapolate that
these mineralized clusters may also bind the 'flavor' of the tea to
the water, giving a better tasting brew. When you bombard water with
radiation of any kind, it will neutralize some quantity of negative
ions in the water, thus removing the water's electrical charge. I
don't know if it leaves any of the water or minerals with a positive
charge (acidic). If you remove all the negative ions, you get neutral
unstructured water with teeny rocks (minerals) in it. It can't
possibly be a good conductor of flavor.

No, none of what you believe is true. And microwaves aren't ionizing
radiation anyway.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

The water does taste terrible. Has anyone here read that japanese
book on water?

On Apr 6, 6:53 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html

Here is what I believe to be true. Water is basically gel with
molecules bonding and un-bonding into clusters, generally not more
than 25 molecules in size, mostly 4-15. Negative ions promote water
molecules forming in clusters. Ionic minerals are what make water
taste good--that is, they are minerals with extra electrons which help
the water form into clusters around it. One might extrapolate that
these mineralized clusters may also bind the 'flavor' of the tea to
the water, giving a better tasting brew. When you bombard water with
radiation of any kind, it will neutralize some quantity of negative
ions in the water, thus removing the water's electrical charge. I
don't know if it leaves any of the water or minerals with a positive
charge (acidic). If you remove all the negative ions, you get neutral
unstructured water with teeny rocks (minerals) in it. It can't
possibly be a good conductor of flavor.

No, none of what you believe is true. And microwaves aren't ionizing
radiation anyway.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Apr 5, 8:28 pm, DogMa wrote:
Danica wrote:
It's just a theory, somewhat supported by science:
http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html

Here is what I believe to be true. Water is basically gel with
molecules bonding and un-bonding into clusters, generally not more
than 25 molecules in size, mostly 4-15. Negative ions promote water
molecules forming in clusters. *** Ionic minerals are what make water
taste good--that is, they are minerals with extra electrons which help
the water form into clusters around it. One might extrapolate that
these mineralized clusters may also bind the 'flavor' of the tea to
the water, giving a better tasting brew. When you bombard water with
radiation of any kind, it will neutralize some quantity of negative
ions in the water, thus removing the water's electrical charge. I
don't know if it leaves any of the water or minerals with a positive
charge (acidic). If you remove all the negative ions, you get neutral
unstructured water with teeny rocks (minerals) in it. It can't
possibly be a good conductor of flavor.

Scientists--do you have any thoughts?

Here are three for starters: Nothing south of the *** has anything
substantive to do with science. While beliefs play a real role in
sensory experience, prescriptive pronouncements about matters that are
speculative only insofar as they have not been compared with fact
probably do no-one a service. And there is a wonderful irony in the use
of scientific lexicon and syntax in making what amount to faith-based,
anti-scientific assertions, a practice regrettably prevalent in the
greater mythos of tea.

Sorry, but you asked.

-DM

I wouldn't say it's faith-based, rather a clever and possibly poetic
attempt to surmise what happens to water when it is boiled in a
microwave, and why it tastes so bad, without assuming that current
scientific paradigms about water are actually truth rather than
theory. In fact, I don't know why water magnetized in an iron
tetsubin on an induction plate is much tastier than water bombarded
with microwaves in a container. Perhaps it is gases. But is that
all? Maybe, maybe not.

On Mar 28, 5:36 pm, "magicleaf" wrote:
Try our web sitewww.tea-junction.comthere are several brewing
options from glassware through plastic to ceramics.
Mauricewww.tea-junction.com

I tried placing an order at that site. I could not find a way to add
anything to my shopping cart. When I called the phone number at the
bottom of the web site I got an automated message telling me that the
number was disconnected.

Try specialteas.com they should have what you need for the USA
"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 28, 5:36 pm, "magicleaf" wrote:
Try our web sitewww.tea-junction.comthere are several brewing
options from glassware through plastic to ceramics.
Mauricewww.tea-junction.com

I tried placing an order at that site. I could not find a way to add
anything to my shopping cart. When I called the phone number at the
bottom of the web site I got an automated message telling me that the
number was disconnected.

On Apr 6, 7:48 pm, "Danica" wrote:
On Apr 5, 8:28 pm, DogMa wrote:



Danica wrote:
It's just a theory, somewhat supported by science:
http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html

Here is what I believe to be true. Water is basically gel with
molecules bonding and un-bonding into clusters, generally not more
than 25 molecules in size, mostly 4-15. Negative ions promote water
molecules forming in clusters. *** Ionic minerals are what make water
taste good--that is, they are minerals with extra electrons which help
the water form into clusters around it. One might extrapolate that
these mineralized clusters may also bind the 'flavor' of the tea to
the water, giving a better tasting brew. When you bombard water with
radiation of any kind, it will neutralize some quantity of negative
ions in the water, thus removing the water's electrical charge. I
don't know if it leaves any of the water or minerals with a positive
charge (acidic). If you remove all the negative ions, you get neutral
unstructured water with teeny rocks (minerals) in it. It can't
possibly be a good conductor of flavor.

Scientists--do you have any thoughts?

Here are three for starters: Nothing south of the *** has anything
substantive to do with science. While beliefs play a real role in
sensory experience, prescriptive pronouncements about matters that are
speculative only insofar as they have not been compared with fact
probably do no-one a service. And there is a wonderful irony in the use
of scientific lexicon and syntax in making what amount to faith-based,
anti-scientific assertions, a practice regrettably prevalent in the
greater mythos of tea.

Sorry, but you asked.

-DM

I wouldn't say it's faith-based, rather a clever and possibly poetic
attempt to surmise what happens to water when it is boiled in a
microwave, and why it tastes so bad, without assuming that current
scientific paradigms about water are actually truth rather than
theory. In fact, I don't know why water magnetized in an iron
tetsubin on an induction plate is much tastier than water bombarded
with microwaves in a container. Perhaps it is gases. But is that
all? Maybe, maybe not.

You'll have to tell me what water magnatized in an iron tessubin on an
induction plate tastes like. I've been busy drinking boring old water
that can't be magnitized.

I think it tastes fresher. Boiled water tends to have a less 'tingly'
flavor. Maybe it takes on fewer gases in a tetsubin. I guess you'd
have to try a comparison, these things are very personal.

On Apr 7, 2:02 pm, wrote:
On Apr 6, 7:48 pm, "Danica" wrote:





On Apr 5, 8:28 pm, DogMa wrote:

Danica wrote:
It's just a theory, somewhat supported by science:
http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/abou****er.html

Here is what I believe to be true. Water is basically gel with
molecules bonding and un-bonding into clusters, generally not more
than 25 molecules in size, mostly 4-15. Negative ions promote water
molecules forming in clusters. *** Ionic minerals are what make water
taste good--that is, they are minerals with extra electrons which help
the water form into clusters around it. One might extrapolate that
these mineralized clusters may also bind the 'flavor' of the tea to
the water, giving a better tasting brew. When you bombard water with
radiation of any kind, it will neutralize some quantity of negative
ions in the water, thus removing the water's electrical charge. I
don't know if it leaves any of the water or minerals with a positive
charge (acidic). If you remove all the negative ions, you get neutral
unstructured water with teeny rocks (minerals) in it. It can't
possibly be a good conductor of flavor.

Scientists--do you have any thoughts?

Here are three for starters: Nothing south of the *** has anything
substantive to do with science. While beliefs play a real role in
sensory experience, prescriptive pronouncements about matters that are
speculative only insofar as they have not been compared with fact
probably do no-one a service. And there is a wonderful irony in the use
of scientific lexicon and syntax in making what amount to faith-based,
anti-scientific assertions, a practice regrettably prevalent in the
greater mythos of tea.

Sorry, but you asked.

-DM

I wouldn't say it's faith-based, rather a clever and possibly poetic
attempt to surmise what happens to water when it is boiled in a
microwave, and why it tastes so bad, without assuming that current
scientific paradigms about water are actually truth rather than
theory. In fact, I don't know why water magnetized in an iron
tetsubin on an induction plate is much tastier than water bombarded
with microwaves in a container. Perhaps it is gases. But is that
all? Maybe, maybe not.

You'll have to tell me what water magnatized in an iron tessubin on an
induction plate tastes like. I've been busy drinking boring old water
that can't be magnitized.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 28 Mar 2007 14:44:19 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Steve wrote:

Are teapots used for boiling or steeping loose leaf tea? Do they
have a built in filter to keep leaves from being poured into cups?

Yes, and sometimes.

I've seen single serving plastic teapots that can be microwaved to get
boiling water for people who work in offices without access to a
stove.

Yes, they work well.

Does anyone know where I could get something similar made out of glass
or at least not plastic?

Upton Tea Imports sells the Chatsford teapots, with infuser baskets,
as well as a one-mug system from Chatsford.

I have one of these. I causes lightning in the microwave. I think it
has some metallic paint. Quite a good lightning show once I calmed
down. ;-)

--

On 28 Mar 2007 18:18:05 -0700, "SN" wrote:

ive blind-tested myself with 3kinds of water heating,

Were you blind-folded just while drinking?

I think it would be nearly impossible to run a double-blind experiment
on yourself. But I would be interested to know how you did it, if you
actually did.

I'd be willing to wager that very few people in a legitimate
double-blind test could reliably distinguish between water that was
brought just to a boil using any method that did not involve a
container that could impart a taste to the water.

microwaved water is definitely different in taste = flat and not
pleasing, waste of good leaf.
but i do use it in the office for crappy tea bags...

I propose that the taste is from (a) boiling too much, not from the
method, and (b) your pre-conceptions.


--