Hi group,

I have never really been into Puerh teas. Havin seen many posts
about it here I decided to try some. My local tea shop do carry
Puerh but when I asked whether it was cooked or raw the shop
attendant, not the owner, did not even know what I was talking
about.

The conversation was in Swedish and I suspect I may have used
the wrong word for cooked. We have a word "kokt" that is pronounced
quite the same as cooked, but means "boiled".

Does cooked rather imply "baked"?
Could someone please give a brief explanation of the process when
_cooking_ Puerh?

I did buy some, called "King of Puerh". I tried it a few times but
since then I mostly drink the same Oolongs as I have for several
years.


Lars
Stockholm

See

http://www.pu-erh.net/

to find out what cooked Pu'er is. You'll probably answer your next
ten Pu'er questions while you're at it.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Mar 21, 3:27 pm, Lars wrote:
Hi group,

I have never really been into Puerh teas. Havin seen many posts
about it here I decided to try some. My local tea shop do carry
Puerh but when I asked whether it was cooked or raw the shop
attendant, not the owner, did not even know what I was talking
about.

The conversation was in Swedish and I suspect I may have used
the wrong word for cooked. We have a word "kokt" that is pronounced
quite the same as cooked, but means "boiled".

Does cooked rather imply "baked"?
Could someone please give a brief explanation of the process when
_cooking_ Puerh?

I did buy some, called "King of Puerh". I tried it a few times but
since then I mostly drink the same Oolongs as I have for several
years.

Lars
Stockholm

Hello Lars,

Cooked or ripe pu'er refers to raw pu'er that underwent a man-made
accelerated fermentation process. Basically, sheng/raw pu'er leaves
(maocha -- before they are compressed into various shapes) are spread
on the floor of the tea producer's indoor facility and then they are
covered in wet blankets. This way, the leaves are exposed to constant
high humidity for an extended period of time (a month, more or less)
which allow them to ferment quickly (aka: controlled rotting
process). In that short period of time, the usually harsh raw pu'er
is transformed into a mellower and smoother tea...making them more
drinkable / approachable than the harsh new raw pu'er. The "cooking"
process turns the leaves from green to black-red. Poorly controlled
cooking process can result in nasty-tasting tea...or mold could form.
Different pu'er factories, as far as I've read, have their own
approach...but the basic process is the same.

Such is my understanding...

Phyll

On Mar 21, 6:27 pm, Lars wrote:
Hi group,

I have never really been into Puerh teas. Havin seen many posts
about it here I decided to try some. My local tea shop do carry
Puerh but when I asked whether it was cooked or raw the shop
attendant, not the owner, did not even know what I was talking
about.

The conversation was in Swedish and I suspect I may have used
the wrong word for cooked. We have a word "kokt" that is pronounced
quite the same as cooked, but means "boiled".

Does cooked rather imply "baked"?
Could someone please give a brief explanation of the process when
_cooking_ Puerh?

I did buy some, called "King of Puerh". I tried it a few times but
since then I mostly drink the same Oolongs as I have for several
years.

Lars
Stockholm

I'm not a language expert but I willing to bet the term "cooked pu-
erh" (shou pu-erh) is a mistranslation.

In Chinese, the word "shou2" (熟) can have two meanings: "fully
ripened" and "fully cooked". The first case applies to green fruits on
the vines and trees when they ripen to their full sweetness. The
second case is used when cooking raw vegetables and meat to doneness.
Since shou pu-erh was never really cooked with heat (the fermentation
temperature is not that high) but rather allowed to "ripen (to
sweetness)" through a slow fermentation as described by Phyll above,
I'm willing to bet that "shou pu-erh" should really have been called
"ripened pu-erh" and not "cooked pu-erh".

Look at the spent leaves. If black it is shu,cooked if green then
sheng,raw. You can see a mixture of both but that is another topic.
The term baked is applied to oxidation processing. Puer is
fermentation processing. If it is loose puer then it heretofore meant
shu. Recently a green version has appeared but that is also another
topic. What is discussed mostly here is the compressed architectural
version of shu or sheng in forms of cakes,logs,mushrooms,etc. We use
the Chinese pinyin terms of shu or sheng which would probably be
different in Swedish. The Chinese characters speak to the Chinese and
not us. What we use is colloquial meaning like cook,raw etc. For
example, we refer to the term Tuocha as bird nest but that isn't the
literal meaning at all. Is the literal term Puer used in Sweden?

Jim

On Mar 21, 3:27 pm, Lars wrote:
Hi group,

I have never really been into Puerh teas. Havin seen many posts
about it here I decided to try some. My local tea shop do carry
Puerh but when I asked whether it was cooked or raw the shop
attendant, not the owner, did not even know what I was talking
about.

The conversation was in Swedish and I suspect I may have used
the wrong word for cooked. We have a word "kokt" that is pronounced
quite the same as cooked, but means "boiled".

Does cooked rather imply "baked"?
Could someone please give a brief explanation of the process when
_cooking_ Puerh?

I did buy some, called "King of Puerh". I tried it a few times but
since then I mostly drink the same Oolongs as I have for several
years.

Lars
Stockholm

"Space Cowboy" writes:

Look at the spent leaves. If black it is shu,cooked if green then
sheng,raw.

If sheng has been aged long enough, it can be as dark as shu.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Just according to creation theory because it is inconvenient to wait
for anything to happen.

Jim

On Mar 22, 7:59 am, Lewis Perin wrote:
"Space Cowboy" writes:
Look at the spent leaves. If black it is shu,cooked if green then
sheng,raw.

If sheng has been aged long enough, it can be as dark as shu.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /

If sheng has been aged long enough, it can be as dark as shu.

/Lew

Quite true Lew. I have many sheng puerhs where the spent leaf is
indeed quite dark, and at a casual glance could be mistaken for shu.
Actually this color is often seen in the most coveted of aged sheng
pu.

Cooked puerh goes through a process (as Phyll mentions) that is very
similar to composting. Each factory closely guards the specifics of
their method as if it were a state secret. But, as Phyll mentions, it
is all essentially variations of composting.

I too have heard the term "ripe" used to describe black puerh. I first
heard the term used by a Chinese puerh wholesaler in Kunming. This guy
moved literally tons of puerh each month. So it is evident, at least
to me, that the term is indeed used in this manner in China to some
degree. I first heard the term "cooked" from an American dealer who
was living in China at the time. The term "cooked" seems to be the
most prevalently used term in the US. I prefer to use either
"shu" (shou) or "black" as that side steps the whole translation
issue.

If there is any interest I can post my pictorial series of pictures
again that show the cooking process.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

On Mar 22, 7:06 am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Look at the spent leaves. If black it is shu,cooked if green then
sheng,raw.

I have to agree with Lew here. *Looking* at the spent leaves can tell
little if you are comparing old sheng with old shou. If it's a fairly
young tea, then yes, cooked pu'er is obviously much darker in black-
reddish color. In fact, you don't need to go as far as looking at the
spent leaves. They dry leaves will be telltale enough if it's a young
tea. (a word of caution below)

Lars, I think you also need to know of a category in between sheng and
shou...and that is sheng/raw pu'er that has gone through a period of
"wet-storage". Conceptually it is the same: it's raw pu'er that has
gone through some intended high humidity storage to accelerate the
fermentation of the tea. But instead of covering them in wet
blankets, the tea is usually kept in a highly humid room (basement,
warehouse, humidor, etc). This process is usually done by middlemen
(wholesaler, vendors, etc.) or the end-consumers, and not by the
factories. In addition, there are degrees of wet storage depending on
the level of humidity and the period in which the tea is stored as
such. The "cooking" process done by the factories is, essentially,
the wettest of all wet storage...I think you can see it that way.
(Caution: wet storage can make a raw pu'er appear older than it
actually is...so buying "old teas" deserves a caveat emptor warning in
itself. Get old teas from trustworthy sources.)

So here comes the conundrum: is a tea called "shou" only if it was
processed by the factory to be shou, but it remains a "sheng" with the
added notation of "wet storage" (or no notation at all) if the process
is done by parties outside of the factories?

Phyll
------------------------------------------------------
phyllsheng.blogspot.com
www.winexiles.com
contributes at www.tching.com
------------------------------------------------------

On Mar 22, 7:06 am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Look at the spent leaves. If black it is shu,cooked if green then
sheng,raw. You can see a mixture of both but that is another topic.
The term baked is applied to oxidation processing. Puer is
fermentation processing. If it is loose puer then it heretofore meant
shu. Recently a green version has appeared but that is also another
topic. What is discussed mostly here is the compressed architectural
version of shu or sheng in forms of cakes,logs,mushrooms,etc. We use
the Chinese pinyin terms of shu or sheng which would probably be
different in Swedish. The Chinese characters speak to the Chinese and
not us. What we use is colloquial meaning like cook,raw etc. For
example, we refer to the term Tuocha as bird nest but that isn't the
literal meaning at all. Is the literal term Puer used in Sweden?

Jim

On Mar 21, 3:27 pm, Lars wrote:



Hi group,

I have never really been into Puerh teas. Havin seen many posts
about it here I decided to try some. My local tea shop do carry
Puerh but when I asked whether it was cooked or raw the shop
attendant, not the owner, did not even know what I was talking
about.

The conversation was in Swedish and I suspect I may have used
the wrong word for cooked. We have a word "kokt" that is pronounced
quite the same as cooked, but means "boiled".

Does cooked rather imply "baked"?
Could someone please give a brief explanation of the process when
_cooking_ Puerh?

I did buy some, called "King of Puerh". I tried it a few times but
since then I mostly drink the same Oolongs as I have for several
years.

Lars
Stockholm- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mar 22, 11:03 am, "Mike Petro" wrote:
If sheng has been aged long enough, it can be as dark as shu.

/Lew

Quite true Lew. I have many sheng puerhs where the spent leaf is
indeed quite dark, and at a casual glance could be mistaken for shu.
Actually this color is often seen in the most coveted of aged sheng
pu.

Cooked puerh goes through a process (as Phyll mentions) that is very
similar to composting. Each factory closely guards the specifics of
their method as if it were a state secret. But, as Phyll mentions, it
is all essentially variations of composting.

I too have heard the term "ripe" used to describe black puerh. I first
heard the term used by a Chinese puerh wholesaler in Kunming. This guy
moved literally tons of puerh each month. So it is evident, at least
to me, that the term is indeed used in this manner in China to some
degree. I first heard the term "cooked" from an American dealer who
was living in China at the time. The term "cooked" seems to be the
most prevalently used term in the US. I prefer to use either
"shu" (shou) or "black" as that side steps the whole translation
issue.

If there is any interest I can post my pictorial series of pictures
again that show the cooking process.

Mikehttp://www.pu-erh.net

Yes, please post the pictures! I find it helpful to have a visual
reference to go with all the great discussion on the NG.

Alan

"Mike Petro" wrote in news:1174586618.722890.47090
@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:


If there is any interest I can post my pictorial series of pictures
again that show the cooking process.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

I second Alan's request. It would be fascinating, thanks Mike.

Ozzy

Third
....thanks Mike!

Phyll

On Mar 22, 1:25 pm, Ozzy please.answer@NG wrote:
"Mike Petro" wrote in news:1174586618.722890.47090
@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:



If there is any interest I can post my pictorial series of pictures
again that show the cooking process.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

I second Alan's request. It would be fascinating, thanks Mike.

Ozzy

On Mar 23, 2:03 am, "Mike Petro" wrote:
If sheng has been aged long enough, it can be as dark as shu.

/Lew

Quite true Lew. I have many sheng puerhs where the spent leaf is
indeed quite dark, and at a casual glance could be mistaken for shu.
Actually this color is often seen in the most coveted of aged sheng
pu.

Cooked puerh goes through a process (as Phyll mentions) that is very
similar to composting. Each factory closely guards the specifics of
their method as if it were a state secret. But, as Phyll mentions, it
is all essentially variations of composting.

I too have heard the term "ripe" used to describe black puerh. I first
heard the term used by a Chinese puerh wholesaler in Kunming. This guy
moved literally tons of puerh each month. So it is evident, at least
to me, that the term is indeed used in this manner in China to some
degree. I first heard the term "cooked" from an American dealer who
was living in China at the time. The term "cooked" seems to be the
most prevalently used term in the US. I prefer to use either
"shu" (shou) or "black" as that side steps the whole translation
issue.

If there is any interest I can post my pictorial series of pictures
again that show the cooking process.

Mikehttp://www.pu-erh.net

Well, black really muddies the water because, as you pointed out, old
puerh can be very black. It confuses people.

Ripened is perhaps more accurate, but it is not entirely without merit
to call it cooked either, as the composting process actually generates
quite a bit of heat. The internal temperature of the piles of rotting
leaves are, from what I'm told, much higher than the surroundings. So
in a sense, the leaves are cooking themselves into sweetness.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

On Mar 23, 2:16 am, "Phyll" wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:06 am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:

Look at the spent leaves. If black it is shu,cooked if green then
sheng,raw.

I have to agree with Lew here. *Looking* at the spent leaves can tell
little if you are comparing old sheng with old shou. If it's a fairly
young tea, then yes, cooked pu'er is obviously much darker in black-
reddish color. In fact, you don't need to go as far as looking at the
spent leaves. They dry leaves will be telltale enough if it's a young
tea. (a word of caution below)

Lars, I think you also need to know of a category in between sheng and
shou...and that is sheng/raw pu'er that has gone through a period of
"wet-storage". Conceptually it is the same: it's raw pu'er that has
gone through some intended high humidity storage to accelerate the
fermentation of the tea. But instead of covering them in wet
blankets, the tea is usually kept in a highly humid room (basement,
warehouse, humidor, etc). This process is usually done by middlemen
(wholesaler, vendors, etc.) or the end-consumers, and not by the
factories. In addition, there are degrees of wet storage depending on
the level of humidity and the period in which the tea is stored as
such. The "cooking" process done by the factories is, essentially,
the wettest of all wet storage...I think you can see it that way.
(Caution: wet storage can make a raw pu'er appear older than it
actually is...so buying "old teas" deserves a caveat emptor warning in
itself. Get old teas from trustworthy sources.)

So here comes the conundrum: is a tea called "shou" only if it was
processed by the factory to be shou, but it remains a "sheng" with the
added notation of "wet storage" (or no notation at all) if the process
is done by parties outside of the factories?

Phyll
------------------------------------------------------
phyllsheng.blogspot.comwww.winexiles.com
contributes atwww.tching.com
------------------------------------------------------

Actually, old sheng and old shu still look/feel different, I think,
even if the old sheng is very black. But to get into that is rather
difficult without physical samples to show the difference.... just
talking with text makes it almost a futile venture.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

When you drink shu like I do you understand the translated meaning of
black,cook,ripe is darn close. Old anything ain't going to match it.
It stands by itself and is no fast forward to the future. I think shu
is the real secret of Puer both literally and figuratively. Anybody
can make a sheng. I don't know who started the myth that sheng will
turn into shu.

Jim

On Mar 22, 10:41 pm, "MarshalN" wrote:
On Mar 23, 2:16 am, "Phyll" wrote:
....a lot of you...
On Mar 22, 7:06 am, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
....a little of me...

Actually, old sheng and old shu still look/feel different, I think,
even if the old sheng is very black. But to get into that is rather
difficult without physical samples to show the difference.... just
talking with text makes it almost a futile venture.

MarshalNhttp://www.xanga.com/MarshalN