On Mar 23, 9:27 pm, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
When you drink shu like I do you understand the translated meaning of
black,cook,ripe is darn close. Old anything ain't going to match it.
It stands by itself and is no fast forward to the future. I think shu
is the real secret of Puer both literally and figuratively. Anybody
can make a sheng. I don't know who started the myth that sheng will
turn into shu.

Jim

Probably people who've drank good sheng, well aged.

This is not to say that just storing it in any place will turn out
fantastic teas, but I can assure you aged sheng is far more
interesting than any shu you can find.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Third
...thanks Mike!

Phyll

OK, no problem, I will post them on the my front "spotlight" page
tonight. See URL below....

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

Well, black really muddies the water because, as you pointed out, old
puerh can be very black. It confuses people.


True, not to mention the confusion between black and red tea, eastern
versus western, definitions.

Didnt I read something somewhere where the Chinese authorities were
considering a different classification for "cooked" puerh? Something
to the effect that raw puerh is a true black tea, like Liu An etc, and
cooked puerh is something else.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

This is not to say that just storing it in any place will turn out
fantastic teas, but I can assure you aged sheng is far more
interesting than any shu you can find.

Well, Shou was actually developed to imitate aged sheng, that was the
idea originally. The results, while not bad at all, pale in comparison
to a well stored mature sheng. The best shou I have ever tasted wont
compete with authentic mature sheng. I have yet to see a shou that
attained the depths of mature sheng, although I have seen some "aged
shous" that came a little close. I suspect they were composted a
little lighter than we typically see today so that some of the
original character still developed with maturity. I have also heard
the term "mixed" used in reference to these puerhs, but I have never
felt that I fully understood that term though. Is it a blend of sheng
and shou which is then compressed, or is it just a lighter composting
treatment? For example I have a mushroom that came from TTG that was
described as "mixed" but I dont see two distinct varieties in the dry
leaf. It definitely has that finish that comes close to aged sheng
though, that mulchy woodsy, hauntingly elusive sweetness.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

The P in Puer stands for Preservation. Any claims of aging are
nothing more than a snapshot of tea taste in time. Proper storage is
required.

Jim

PS I find SowMee more interesting than YinZhen.

On Mar 23, 7:18 am, "MarshalN" wrote:
On Mar 23, 9:27 pm, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
....pile about puer...

Probably people who've drank good sheng, well aged.

This is not to say that just storing it in any place will turn out
fantastic teas, but I can assure you aged sheng is far more
interesting than any shu you can find.

MarshalNhttp://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

"Mike Petro" writes:

Well, black really muddies the water because, as you pointed out, old
puerh can be very black. It confuses people.


True, not to mention the confusion between black and red tea, eastern
versus western, definitions.

Didnt I read something somewhere where the Chinese authorities were
considering a different classification for "cooked" puerh? Something
to the effect that raw puerh is a true black tea, like Liu An etc, and
cooked puerh is something else.

I hope nobody thinks I'm being perverse or flippant, but I think it's
actually the reverse: that the Chinese authorities pushing this
distinction regard *cooked* (shu) Pu'er as a black tea, along with the
various hydro-fermented Hunan, Sichuan, and Guangxi teas that are most
popular among non-Han peoples far from coastal China.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
thanking Kaiwen for the addition of: zao xiang

On 21 Mar 2007 16:09:31 -0700, "Phyll" wrote:

Cooked or ripe pu'er refers to raw pu'er that underwent a man-made
accelerated fermentation process. ............
covered in wet blankets. ...
extended period of time ...

Such is my understanding...

Thank you Phyll! Very good explanation. Now I will have better
questions for my Tea Shop.

I enjoyed reading Mikes Puerh site too.


Lars
Stockholm

My notes say zao3 means jujube. It is the most common brick in
Chinatown. My last kilo was $8. It was Mydnight who also mentioned
mi xiang.

Jim

On Mar 23, 10:59 am, Lewis Perin wrote:
Lew Perin /
thanking Kaiwen for the addition of: zao xiang

"Space Cowboy" writes:

My notes say zao3 means jujube. It is the most common brick in
Chinatown.

I don't doubt it, but cheap bricks are not the only things that go
under the Zao Xiang name.

My last kilo was $8. It was Mydnight who also mentioned mi xiang.

Right. Thanks, Mydnight!

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"Mike Petro":
Well, Shou was actually developed to imitate aged sheng, that was the
idea originally.

I was told that they learned the technique from Guangxi Liubao
teamakers, who have used the "wo dui" process decades before Yunnanese
teamakers adopted it. True?

Here is my write up on the relationship between Guangxi Liubao wo dui
and Pu'er wo dui process (towards the end, after tasting notes)
http://phyllsheng.blogspot.com/2007/...omparison.html

Phyll


On Mar 23, 9:22 am, "Mike Petro" wrote:
This is not to say that just storing it in any place will turn out
fantastic teas, but I can assure you aged sheng is far more
interesting than any shu you can find.

Well, Shou was actually developed to imitate aged sheng, that was the
idea originally. The results, while not bad at all, pale in comparison
to a well stored mature sheng. The best shou I have ever tasted wont
compete with authentic mature sheng. I have yet to see a shou that
attained the depths of mature sheng, although I have seen some "aged
shous" that came a little close. I suspect they were composted a
little lighter than we typically see today so that some of the
original character still developed with maturity. I have also heard
the term "mixed" used in reference to these puerhs, but I have never
felt that I fully understood that term though. Is it a blend of sheng
and shou which is then compressed, or is it just a lighter composting
treatment? For example I have a mushroom that came from TTG that was
described as "mixed" but I dont see two distinct varieties in the dry
leaf. It definitely has that finish that comes close to aged sheng
though, that mulchy woodsy, hauntingly elusive sweetness.

Mikehttp://www.pu-erh.net

Thanks for the pictures on your site, Mike! They're great!

Phyll

On Mar 23, 8:54 am, "Mike Petro" wrote:
Third
...thanks Mike!

Phyll

OK, no problem, I will post them on the my front "spotlight" page
tonight. See URL below....

Mikehttp://www.pu-erh.net

On 23 Mar 2007 16:28:52 -0700, "Phyll" wrote:

"Mike Petro":
Well, Shou was actually developed to imitate aged sheng, that was the
idea originally.

I was told that they learned the technique from Guangxi Liubao
teamakers, who have used the "wo dui" process decades before Yunnanese
teamakers adopted it. True?

Here is my write up on the relationship between Guangxi Liubao wo dui
and Pu'er wo dui process (towards the end, after tasting notes)
http://phyllsheng.blogspot.com/2007/...omparison.html

Phyll


Yes, I too have heard this, although I have not found a way to
collaborate it. The CNNP was so secretive about the whole development
process that it is hard to find much that can be validated. Along the
same lines, the CNNP developed their method in the early 70s, I have
heard rumors that there was another ripening process used on puerh as
early as the 50s. Once again I have not been able to collaborate it.

One thing I have learned in this journey is to seek collaboration.
Even amongst the Chinese there is much dissension and disagreement
surrounding puerh history. Throw in a heavy dose of the mysticism ,
that the Chinese seem to thrive on (great marketing tactic), and you
often wind with a very murky picture.

___________
Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net

"Phyll" wrote in news:1174712302.480365.230700
@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

Thanks for the pictures on your site, Mike! They're great!

Phyll


Thank you, Mike. Hun hao!

Ozzy

Mike Petro wrote:
... I have yet to see a shou that
attained the depths of mature sheng, although I have seen some "aged
shous" that came a little close. I suspect they were composted a
little lighter than we typically see today so that some of the
original character still developed with maturity.

This suggests an interesting possibility. If no-one is currently making
"low-composted" shu Pu-erh, perhaps one could request a smallish batch
from some congenial manufacturer, using selected maocha. It would be
great to have a tea that (whether or not drinkable now) would mature in
just a few years. If the quality-vs.-age curve for the shu-sheng
continuum is parabolic, with a low composting sweet spot at (say) 4-7
years, we might have a winner. I'd buy into that experiment.

Or maybe it would just be like doing wet storage of sheng?

-DM

DogMa wrote:
This suggests an interesting possibility. If no-one is currently making
"low-composted" shu Pu-erh, perhaps one could request a smallish batch

I don't remember on the top of my head, but those Menghai shou cakes
with formula numbers...some of formula #### is a low-fermentation
formula...and some are heavier fermented than others. I need to look
it up...

Phyll

On Mar 25, 5:41 am, DogMa wrote:
Mike Petro wrote:

... I have yet to see a shou that
attained the depths of mature sheng, although I have seen some "aged
shous" that came a little close. I suspect they were composted a
little lighter than we typically see today so that some of the
original character still developed with maturity.

This suggests an interesting possibility. If no-one is currently making
"low-composted" shu Pu-erh, perhaps one could request a smallish batch
from some congenial manufacturer, using selected maocha. It would be
great to have a tea that (whether or not drinkable now) would mature in
just a few years. If the quality-vs.-age curve for the shu-sheng
continuum is parabolic, with a low composting sweet spot at (say) 4-7
years, we might have a winner. I'd buy into that experiment.

Or maybe it would just be like doing wet storage of sheng?

-DM