Had the opportunity to try a sample of Yiwu Mao Cha recently. Interesting
experience.

Used about 5gms in a heated 75ml gaiwan. Washed for about 10secs, rested for
a couple mins. Water just under the full boil - cooled for minute.

Wow - fish was the first thing that came to mind to both of us. Overwhelming
fishy aroma. Very light brownish pea green liquor.

First steep, 10 secs, wasn't too sure how long to brew this so started off
short. Aroma now less fishy. Initial taste was very sweet for a few
seconds then softened out. I also noted a spicy note on the tip of the
tounge.

Second steep 15secs - fishy aroma all but gone now replaced by pleasant soft
grassy/wet hay aroma. Taste again sweet to start out then a hint of tannin
bitterness - which I found enjoyable.

3rd, 25 secs. Taste similar to #2 but more pronounced - spicy has gone now.
Mouth felt very refreshed.

Inspection of the wet leaf revealed a lot of stalk and a mixture of large
broken and small intact leaf - all very green as one would expect.

Was this experience typical of this type of tea?

This was a pleasant digression from my world of pu'er and roasted oolongs.
It's easy to sit in one's comfort zone but this tea has shown me what I'd
imagine most of you already know, that one needs to take a good look "on top
of ones box" now and again.

Cheers
Mal
Oz

Was this experience typical of this type of tea?

Cheers
Mal
Oz

Erm...no. Big no.

I notice that there are a lot of people wanting to try maocha, but
maocha is not pu'er, by strict definition from some experts & tea-
makers (professor Zhou Hong Jie among them), maocha is basically,
green tea.

If it is the maocha from the actual tea region, one might get a hint
of the characteristics of that tea region, but the maocha needs to go
through a process of heat & bruising to turn it into pu'er, hence the
pressing stage; even the loose leaf pu'er needs to go through at least
the heat process.

These days vendors will sell you anything that puts money in their
bank. Selling maocha to the consumer is a waste of resource which
might otherwise be processed into good pu'er. And at the escalating
price of maocha these days, would any vendors get good grade maocha to
sell as green tea? This might be something for us to ponder over...

Danny

Danny

"Mal from Oz" writes:

Had the opportunity to try a sample of Yiwu Mao Cha recently. Interesting
experience.

Used about 5gms in a heated 75ml gaiwan. Washed for about 10secs, rested for
a couple mins. Water just under the full boil - cooled for minute.

Wow - fish was the first thing that came to mind to both of us. Overwhelming
fishy aroma. Very light brownish pea green liquor.

First steep, 10 secs, wasn't too sure how long to brew this so started off
short. Aroma now less fishy. Initial taste was very sweet for a few
seconds then softened out. I also noted a spicy note on the tip of the
tounge.

Second steep 15secs - fishy aroma all but gone now replaced by pleasant soft
grassy/wet hay aroma. Taste again sweet to start out then a hint of tannin
bitterness - which I found enjoyable.

3rd, 25 secs. Taste similar to #2 but more pronounced - spicy has gone now.
Mouth felt very refreshed.

Inspection of the wet leaf revealed a lot of stalk and a mixture of large
broken and small intact leaf - all very green as one would expect.

Was this experience typical of this type of tea?

Yes, in my experience. That tingling tongue!

I hope you didn't give up after three steeps?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

ahh, bugger. The water was far too hot then. I thought as the leaf was the
same that went into pu'er that the water needed to be hotter.

What else did I do wrong ? What about steeping times ?

Cheers
Mal
Oz

wrote in message
oups.com...


Was this experience typical of this type of tea?

Cheers
Mal
Oz

Erm...no. Big no.

I notice that there are a lot of people wanting to try maocha, but
maocha is not pu'er, by strict definition from some experts & tea-
makers (professor Zhou Hong Jie among them), maocha is basically,
green tea.

If it is the maocha from the actual tea region, one might get a hint
of the characteristics of that tea region, but the maocha needs to go
through a process of heat & bruising to turn it into pu'er, hence the
pressing stage; even the loose leaf pu'er needs to go through at least
the heat process.

These days vendors will sell you anything that puts money in their
bank. Selling maocha to the consumer is a waste of resource which
might otherwise be processed into good pu'er. And at the escalating
price of maocha these days, would any vendors get good grade maocha to
sell as green tea? This might be something for us to ponder over...

Danny

Danny

no got a couple more, but the taste I found didn't differ too much from #3
so didn't comment. Looks like I over heated it anyway.

Cheers
Mal
Oz

"Lewis Perin" wrote in message
news
"Mal from Oz" writes:

Had the opportunity to try a sample of Yiwu Mao Cha recently.
Interesting
experience.

Used about 5gms in a heated 75ml gaiwan. Washed for about 10secs, rested
for
a couple mins. Water just under the full boil - cooled for minute.

Wow - fish was the first thing that came to mind to both of us.
Overwhelming
fishy aroma. Very light brownish pea green liquor.

First steep, 10 secs, wasn't too sure how long to brew this so started
off
short. Aroma now less fishy. Initial taste was very sweet for a few
seconds then softened out. I also noted a spicy note on the tip of the
tounge.

Second steep 15secs - fishy aroma all but gone now replaced by pleasant
soft
grassy/wet hay aroma. Taste again sweet to start out then a hint of
tannin
bitterness - which I found enjoyable.

3rd, 25 secs. Taste similar to #2 but more pronounced - spicy has gone
now.
Mouth felt very refreshed.

Inspection of the wet leaf revealed a lot of stalk and a mixture of large
broken and small intact leaf - all very green as one would expect.

Was this experience typical of this type of tea?

Yes, in my experience. That tingling tongue!

I hope you didn't give up after three steeps?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Don't believe I'm suggesting this...

Try getting a sample of this tea from Guang of Houde:

2006 Autumn "Yi Wu Cha Wang" of Chen Guang-He Tang

& do a comparative brewing.

The Yi Wu Cha Wang is the closest to the pure Yi Wu characteristics
I've tried this year. I think there are others out there, but from
online vendors so far this is the only one I found. You can use hot
boiling water if you like (but not ground water!), but make the
steeping short and after each brew, leave the gaiwan uncovered.

Danny

writes:

[...]
I notice that there are a lot of people wanting to try maocha, but
maocha is not pu'er, by strict definition from some experts & tea-
makers (professor Zhou Hong Jie among them), maocha is basically,
green tea.

Even if sun-dried? I always thought green tea by definition was
quick-killed.

If it is the maocha from the actual tea region, one might get a hint
of the characteristics of that tea region, but the maocha needs to go
through a process of heat & bruising to turn it into pu'er, hence the
pressing stage; even the loose leaf pu'er needs to go through at least
the heat process.

Sorry, but I'm confused now. The idea that the bruising that
inevitably happens during pressing is important makes sense to me, but
you seem to pull back from it by "accepting" loose leaf Pu'er. Also,
maocha does get heated after the sun-drying, no? So what exactly is
the distinction between maocha and loose sheng?

These days vendors will sell you anything that puts money in their
bank. Selling maocha to the consumer is a waste of resource which
might otherwise be processed into good pu'er.

But you've tasted that early nineties Yiwu maocha Guang was selling,
haven't you? I'm among many people who think it tastes great.

And at the escalating price of maocha these days, would any vendors
get good grade maocha to sell as green tea? This might be something
for us to ponder over...

Isn't it fairly common these days to see Yunnan Da Ye green and white
teas?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Hey Danny,

Are you saying cheaper green tea from Yunnan is probably a more
expensive Mao Cha sold to others? Yunnan produces other teas besides
Puer so is it just fate some leaf ends up in a Puer pile and others on
drying racks? I understand the green tea I have comes from southern
Yunnan which I understand is a puer producing area. It is very
distinctive in the sense it has more of a plant taste than delicate
cultivated greens.

xiexie
Jim

On Mar 20, 6:34 am, wrote:
....mowed down...
I notice that there are a lot of people wanting to try maocha, but
maocha is not pu'er, by strict definition from some experts & tea-
makers (professor Zhou Hong Jie among them), maocha is basically,
green tea.

On Mar 20, 10:56 pm, Lewis Perin wrote:
writes:
[...]
I notice that there are a lot of people wanting to try maocha, but
maocha is not pu'er, by strict definition from some experts & tea-
makers (professor Zhou Hong Jie among them), maocha is basically,
green tea.

Even if sun-dried? I always thought green tea by definition was
quick-killed.

This might go into a long discussion...but at a conference held in
Yunnan in 2004, it was generally agreed that "pu'er" must be tea made
from the large leaf varietal of tea plant found in Yunnan, sundried,
and there must a certain degree of post production fermentation or bio-
chemical changes in the tea before it can be considered a pu'er. In
other words, all newly produced tea, compressed or loose leaf, are
green tea till the post production changes set in. - this is by strict
definition, which some experts still disagree on.

To kick-start the changes in post production, heat must be applied to
the maocha, otherwise the maocha would probably be still considered a
green tea. People have mentioned the term sun-dried so often that one
forgets that there is still a process before sun-drying - the leaves
are not plucked, and then left out to dry; if that is the case, we
would probably get white tea instead of green. Quick high heat or
slow low heat is applied to the leaves to treat them first before
laying out to dry in the sun...


If it is the maocha from the actual tea region, one might get a hint
of the characteristics of that tea region, but the maocha needs to go
through a process of heat & bruising to turn it into pu'er, hence the
pressing stage; even the loose leaf pu'er needs to go through at least
the heat process.

Sorry, but I'm confused now. The idea that the bruising that
inevitably happens during pressing is important makes sense to me, but
you seem to pull back from it by "accepting" loose leaf Pu'er. Also,
maocha does get heated after the sun-drying, no? So what exactly is
the distinction between maocha and loose sheng?

Nah, I said "even the loose leaf pu'er needs to go through AT LEAST
the heat process"...we get a nice tan under the sun, I doubt the
leaves are hot after the sun-drying. If there is not distinction
between maocha and loose sheng, we might as well call it maocha
instead. Maocha means half-processed product, that doesn't mean the
end product is the shaping of the leaves into cakes and bowls. To
tell the distinction, the best is still to try a sheng pu'er and a
maocha from the same region, you'll know then which is more
drinkable...

These days vendors will sell you anything that puts money in their
bank. Selling maocha to the consumer is a waste of resource which
might otherwise be processed into good pu'er.

But you've tasted that early nineties Yiwu maocha Guang was selling,
haven't you? I'm among many people who think it tastes great.

Wait, did I? did we? Don't think I did though. & my question to you
would be in what, why and where does it taste great? Provide me with a
profile that we can work and discuss on.

Isn't it fairly common these days to see Yunnan Da Ye green and white
teas?


I think you are confusing tea plants cultivated for green and white
teas, and those cultivated for pu'er...

Danny

On Mar 20, 10:59Â*pm, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
Hey Danny,

Are you saying cheaper green tea from Yunnan is probably a more
expensive Mao Cha sold to others? Â*Yunnan produces other teas besides
Puer so is it just fate some leaf ends up in a Puer pile and others on
drying racks? Â*I understand the green tea I have comes from southern
Yunnan which I understand is a puer producing area. Â*It is very
distinctive in the sense it has more of a plant taste than delicate
cultivated greens.

xiexie
Jim


No, I think a sensible explanation would be that pu'er maocha can make
good green tea but green tea maocha may not make good pu'er.

There are many tea varietals and cultivars in Yunnan, some are more
suitable for making into certain types of tea. Besides the cultivars
from the tea mountains that give us pu'er, some of the others a

Feng Qing Da Ye Zhong 凤庆大�� : suitable as red tea, excellent as green
tea, and pu'er
Meng Hai Da Ye Zhong �海大��: suitable as red tea, excellent as green
tea & pu'er - original material for Nan Nuo Bai Hao green tea.
Yun Kang #10 云抗10� : suitable as red & green teas
Yun Kang #14 云抗14� : suitable as red & green teas
Yun Kang #01 云抗01� : excellent as green tea
Yun Kang #43 云抗43� : excellent as green tea
Yun Mei 云梅: excellent as green tea, poor red tea candidate
Yun Gui 云瑰: suitable as red tea
etc etc.

Erh...what were we talking about earlier?

:")

Danny

writes:

[...green tea vs. maocha vs. Pu'er...]

To kick-start the changes in post production, heat must be applied to
the maocha, otherwise the maocha would probably be still considered a
green tea. People have mentioned the term sun-dried so often that one
forgets that there is still a process before sun-drying - the leaves
are not plucked, and then left out to dry; if that is the case, we
would probably get white tea instead of green. Quick high heat or
slow low heat is applied to the leaves to treat them first before
laying out to dry in the sun...

Quick high heat is exactly what tea manufactured as green gets. But,
since what you're talking about is *before* sun-drying, am I right to
assume that this heating stops short of getting the leaves as dry as
they would in the kill-green for finished green tea?

If it is the maocha from the actual tea region, one might get a
hint of the characteristics of that tea region, but the maocha
needs to go through a process of heat & bruising to turn it into
pu'er, hence the pressing stage; even the loose leaf pu'er needs
to go through at least the heat process.

Sorry, but I'm confused now. The idea that the bruising that
inevitably happens during pressing is important makes sense to me,
but you seem to pull back from it by "accepting" loose leaf Pu'er.
Also, maocha does get heated after the sun-drying, no? So what
exactly is the distinction between maocha and loose sheng?

Nah, I said "even the loose leaf pu'er needs to go through AT LEAST
the heat process"...we get a nice tan under the sun, I doubt the
leaves are hot after the sun-drying. If there is not distinction
between maocha and loose sheng, we might as well call it maocha
instead. Maocha means half-processed product, that doesn't mean the
end product is the shaping of the leaves into cakes and bowls. To
tell the distinction, the best is still to try a sheng pu'er and a
maocha from the same region, you'll know then which is more
drinkable...

I hope I'm not exhausting your patience. Are you saying, then, that
loose sheng, must go through all of (1) partial kill-green, (2)
sun-drying, and (3) some kind of kneading/bruising; and that maocha is
tea that doesn't go through all three?

These days vendors will sell you anything that puts money in their
bank. Selling maocha to the consumer is a waste of resource which
might otherwise be processed into good pu'er.

But you've tasted that early nineties Yiwu maocha Guang was selling,
haven't you? I'm among many people who think it tastes great.

Wait, did I? did we? Don't think I did though. & my question to you
would be in what, why and where does it taste great? Provide me with a
profile that we can work and discuss on.

Sweet, mellow, dried plum. Gets into that pocket of pure aged
mellowness after 6 or so steeps. But, of course, I should provide you
with the thing itself, not just the profile.

Isn't it fairly common these days to see Yunnan Da Ye green and white
teas?

I think you are confusing tea plants cultivated for green and white
teas, and those cultivated for pu'er...

But it's the same cultivar, by outward appearance. Are you excluding
the possibility that a given farmer may decide to sell his crop for
Pu'er or green or white manufacture based on the best offer he gets?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Danny,

I have some loose puer, green, red tea supposedly from the same
undisclosed area in Southern Yunnan. I always assumed the same leaf
processed three different ways. The green one was called Bai Hao so
I'll pretend I won the Menghai trifecta. Thanks for supplying the
Chinese characters because you know I always ask for them.

Jim

PS Thanks for bearing with me and Lew as we make you dot the i's and
cross the t's. You never fail to bring up interesting puer talking
points.

On Mar 20, 9:40Â*am, wrote:
On Mar 20, 10:59Â*pm, "Space Cowboy" wrote:
....I delete me...

No, I think a sensible explanation would be that pu'er maocha can make
good green tea but green tea maocha may not make good pu'er.

There are many tea varietals and cultivars in Yunnan, some are more
suitable for making into certain types of tea. Â*Besides the cultivars
from the tea mountains that give us pu'er, some of the others a

Feng Qing Da Ye Zhong 凤庆大�� : suitable as red tea, excellent as green
tea, and pu'er
Meng Hai Da Ye Zhong �海大��: suitable as red tea, excellent as green
tea & pu'er - original material for Nan Nuo Bai Hao green tea.
Yun Kang #10 云抗10� : suitable as red & green teas
Yun Kang #14 云抗14� : suitable as red & green teas
Yun Kang #01 云抗01� : excellent as green tea
Yun Kang #43 云抗43� : excellent as green tea
Yun Mei 云梅: excellent as green tea, poor red tea candidate
Yun Gui 云瑰: suitable as red tea
etc etc.

Erh...what were we talking about earlier?

:")

Danny

On Mar 20, 9:34 pm, wrote:
Was this experience typical of this type of tea?

Cheers
Mal
Oz

Erm...no. Big no.

I notice that there are a lot of people wanting to try maocha, but
maocha is not pu'er, by strict definition from some experts & tea-
makers (professor Zhou Hong Jie among them), maocha is basically,
green tea.

If it is the maocha from the actual tea region, one might get a hint
of the characteristics of that tea region, but the maocha needs to go
through a process of heat & bruising to turn it into pu'er, hence the
pressing stage; even the loose leaf pu'er needs to go through at least
the heat process.

These days vendors will sell you anything that puts money in their
bank. Selling maocha to the consumer is a waste of resource which
might otherwise be processed into good pu'er. And at the escalating
price of maocha these days, would any vendors get good grade maocha to
sell as green tea? This might be something for us to ponder over...

Danny

Danny

So, in your view, what happened to the maocha, exactly, in terms of
production processes?

Plucking, kill-green, kneading, drying?

From what I understand, newly compressed cakes go through

Plucking, kill-green, kneading, drying, steaming, pressing.

Maocha, at least in terms of tea destined to become puerh, lacks the
steaming/pressing stage. Or, rather, at least in current parlance,
that is how it is.

Unless you have something else in mind? You keep mentioning "heat"
and "bruising" but you don't say when you think that happens to the
tea. After everything is done? Before everything is done? Before
kill-green? That makes a big difference, IMHO.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/marshaln

On Mar 21, 1:03 am, Lewis Perin wrote:

I hope I'm not exhausting your patience. Are you saying, then, that
loose sheng, must go through all of (1) partial kill-green, (2)
sun-drying, and (3) some kind of kneading/bruising; and that maocha is
tea that doesn't go through all three?

Strange...I thought I made a long lengthy reply to your post, but it
didn't seem to appear on the forum...did I send to you personally? If
not I'll reply again when I have the time...

Exhausting my patience? Send me the Yi Wu maocha to recharge!
Hehe...

:")

Danny

writes:

On Mar 21, 1:03 am, Lewis Perin wrote:

I hope I'm not exhausting your patience. Are you saying, then, that
loose sheng, must go through all of (1) partial kill-green, (2)
sun-drying, and (3) some kind of kneading/bruising; and that maocha is
tea that doesn't go through all three?

Strange...I thought I made a long lengthy reply to your post, but it
didn't seem to appear on the forum...did I send to you personally?

No.

If not I'll reply again when I have the time...

Thanks!

Exhausting my patience? Send me the Yi Wu maocha to recharge!

It went out this morning.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html