I broke an extremely tight tuocha apart a couple of months ago by
steaming it briefly, breaking it apart, and then redrying it. Then I
forgot about it. Now I am curious--I understand it will age faster
than compressed puer because it is looseleaf, but if I age it for a
year or two, will there be a significant drop in quality, or will it
taste similar to a slightly older aged compressed puer?

What if I break a cake into smaller pieces (of about 5-10g each) and
store them in a jar? Will that age the tea faster without fading the
quality?

Any ideas/experience in this area?

I cant answer your question , however I would like to aquire one of
these cakes to try myself , where is the best place to order one.

Hi Cha Bing,
what exactly are the best conditions for aging and which factors
accelerate fading ?
I can´t answer this question for Pu-Erhs, but when we´re talking about
aging tobaccos enemy #1 has a name: temperature [light[radiation]].
E.g. old virginia tobaccos age wonderfully, they get better and better
for tens of years as long as you store them at low temperatures,
preferably 20°C [~70 F]. Above this threshold they start to change
to fast [accelarated chemical and biochemical reactions as well as
loss of volatiles], and if you would keep them open [they´re kept in
tins] they would loose their volatiles pretty quickly. However in
lower temps you can store uncut tobaccos unpacked for years without
negative effects. I recently rehydrated a pouch of tobacco from the
70s, that was bonedry, but apparently had dried over many years at low
temperatures [cellar ?]. After some careful rehumidification to render
it smokeable it delivered some sublime smoking experiences. I can
imagine that Pu-Erhs don´t behave that much different, but lack
experience in that field.

Best,
Karsten

The best way to age tea is wait it out. I can tell you from
experience my thirty year old teas taste more similar to the ones I
buy today than not. I think compressed puer maintains its taste
better than any other storage. So a given taste from years ago is not
some mysterious byproduct of bacterial change. Already any puer just
three years old is in demand because of lesser quality in the leaf of
today. You can easily change the taste of puer by wet storage or
steaming as a short cut but that isn't aging. Besides if shu is the
accelerated aging of sheng there is nothing to wait for. For whatever
reason I don't think loose shu taste like the compressed counterpart.
You may like the taste of the loose better if the compressed is too
much. You will find you like the taste from different factores but
this is recipe for now and in the future.

Jim

On Mar 14, 6:29 pm, "cha bing" wrote:
I broke an extremely tight tuocha apart a couple of months ago by
steaming it briefly, breaking it apart, and then redrying it. Then I
forgot about it. Now I am curious--I understand it will age faster
than compressed puer because it is looseleaf, but if I age it for a
year or two, will there be a significant drop in quality, or will it
taste similar to a slightly older aged compressed puer?

What if I break a cake into smaller pieces (of about 5-10g each) and
store them in a jar? Will that age the tea faster without fading the
quality?

Any ideas/experience in this area?

writes:

Hi Cha Bing,
what exactly are the best conditions for aging and which factors
accelerate fading ?
I can´t answer this question for Pu-Erhs, but when we´re talking about
aging tobaccos enemy #1 has a name: temperature [light[radiation]].
E.g. old virginia tobaccos age wonderfully, they get better and better
for tens of years as long as you store them at low temperatures,
preferably 20°C [~70 F]. Above this threshold they start to change
to fast [accelarated chemical and biochemical reactions as well as
loss of volatiles], and if you would keep them open [they´re kept in
tins] they would loose their volatiles pretty quickly. However in
lower temps you can store uncut tobaccos unpacked for years without
negative effects. I recently rehydrated a pouch of tobacco from the
70s, that was bonedry, but apparently had dried over many years at low
temperatures [cellar ?]. After some careful rehumidification to render
it smokeable it delivered some sublime smoking experiences. I can
imagine that Pu-Erhs don´t behave that much different, but lack
experience in that field.

Are you aware of any scientific work on what exactly goes on in
tobacco aging?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
recent addition: Tao4 Se4

"Space Cowboy" writes:

The best way to age tea is wait it out. I can tell you from
experience my thirty year old teas taste more similar to the ones I
buy today than not. I think compressed puer maintains its taste
better than any other storage. So a given taste from years ago is
not some mysterious byproduct of bacterial change. Already any puer
just three years old is in demand because of lesser quality in the
leaf of today. You can easily change the taste of puer by wet
storage or steaming as a short cut but that isn't aging. Besides if
shu is the accelerated aging of sheng there is nothing to wait for.

That's a mighty big "if".

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Mar 14, 9:29 pm, "cha bing" wrote:
I broke an extremely tight tuocha apart a couple of months ago by
steaming it briefly, breaking it apart, and then redrying it. Then I
forgot about it. Now I am curious--I understand it will age faster
than compressed puer because it is looseleaf, but if I age it for a
year or two, will there be a significant drop in quality, or will it
taste similar to a slightly older aged compressed puer?

What if I break a cake into smaller pieces (of about 5-10g each) and
store them in a jar? Will that age the tea faster without fading the
quality?

Any ideas/experience in this area?

You are sort of on new territory there as most people who steam, only
steam enough for short term consumption. The fear being that the steam
might halt any microbial activity that may have been taking place,
thus inhibiting proper aging.

As for loose aging faster than compressed, the collective wisdom as I
know it states that this is true, but only to an extent. The broken
bings and tuos will mellow faster than their compressed brethren, but
they will not reach the same depths (regardless of age) as they would
have had they been left compressed.

In my own personal experience, most methods designed to speed the
aging process will eventually take their toll somewhere.

As for fading, that is not normally a concern with pu-erh unless it is
exposed to far too much air, light, or temperature. This is one of the
great things about pu-erh, it can be stored for decades without
"fading". If left compressed, wrapped in its original wrapper, and
stored in an environment that is comfortable for humans (i.e. not too
hot, cold, humid, or dry), it will not fade. A notable exception to
this phenomenon is that serious collectors will often shrinkwrap cakes
once they reach about 30 years old or so. This is stop the loss of the
aromatics of the tea.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

Lew,
it´s basically a combination of chemical and biochemical reactions.
A few years ago some guys came up with the idea of bacterial activity,
but so far there´s still no proof.
One thing is for sure, the more sugar a specific baccy contains, the
better more complexity/dramatic taste related changes.
Also a few years ago some other guys drew their conclusions and came
up with a technique of what is now widely known as "tin or tobacco
baking". Take a fresh [read: edgy, maybe a little harsh or rough in
taste] tin of tobacco, put it in your oven at a temperature at or
below ~220F for some hours [depends on specific baccy and how much you
like to change
it], remove tin, leave it closed overnight to allow all vapors
[volatiles] to move back into your weed and bang. The changes can be
dramatic:less harshness, mellower, sweeter, pronounced flavors, better
smokeablity all in all a simply wonderful taste, albeit different from
that of a conventionally aged tobacco. Conventional aging still
produces more complexity, no wonder since apparently it simply
involves more reactions than simple baking, where maybe just a few
chemical reactions get accelerated [conversion of sugars].
In the end it all depends on how you like your tobacco to taste, same
applies to tea, huh ?
If you happen to enjoy your tea with artificial sweetener, some
dollops of coconut milk, and the whole mess served in a Martini glass
topped with a tiny paper umbrella, there you go. I prefer
traditionally aged baccy to the stoved version but that´s just silly
me.
Ever heard of anyone baking Pu-Erh cha to "age" it ? Maybe they
already do it in China, one way or the other, I wouldn´t be surprised.
If on the other hand in about one month from now the market gets
flooded with aged Pu-Erh, remember you read it on rfdt

Best,
Karsten

Sounds like tobacco smokers are discovering the joys of roasting their
weed. Tea drinkers have been doing it for centuries.

There's a guy in Taiwan who is a tea merchant, but is also famous for
roasting anything and everything. Tobbaco is one of the things he's
done before. Apparently, it makes it more smokable, as you've
discovered.

It might be worth it for some of these people to become more aware of
what tea drinkers do, mostly to oolongs.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

On Mar 16, 12:09 am, wrote:
Lew,
it´s basically a combination of chemical and biochemical reactions.
A few years ago some guys came up with the idea of bacterial activity,
but so far there´s still no proof.
One thing is for sure, the more sugar a specific baccy contains, the
better more complexity/dramatic taste related changes.
Also a few years ago some other guys drew their conclusions and came
up with a technique of what is now widely known as "tin or tobacco
baking". Take a fresh [read: edgy, maybe a little harsh or rough in
taste] tin of tobacco, put it in your oven at a temperature at or
below ~220F for some hours [depends on specific baccy and how much you
like to change
it], remove tin, leave it closed overnight to allow all vapors
[volatiles] to move back into your weed and bang. The changes can be
dramatic:less harshness, mellower, sweeter, pronounced flavors, better
smokeablity all in all a simply wonderful taste, albeit different from
that of a conventionally aged tobacco. Conventional aging still
produces more complexity, no wonder since apparently it simply
involves more reactions than simple baking, where maybe just a few
chemical reactions get accelerated [conversion of sugars].
In the end it all depends on how you like your tobacco to taste, same
applies to tea, huh ?
If you happen to enjoy your tea with artificial sweetener, some
dollops of coconut milk, and the whole mess served in a Martini glass
topped with a tiny paper umbrella, there you go. I prefer
traditionally aged baccy to the stoved version but that´s just silly
me.
Ever heard of anyone baking Pu-Erh cha to "age" it ? Maybe they
already do it in China, one way or the other, I wouldn´t be surprised.
If on the other hand in about one month from now the market gets
flooded with aged Pu-Erh, remember you read it on rfdt

Best,
Karsten

"MarshalN" writes:

Sounds like tobacco smokers are discovering the joys of roasting their
weed. Tea drinkers have been doing it for centuries.

There's a guy in Taiwan who is a tea merchant, but is also famous for
roasting anything and everything. Tobbaco is one of the things he's
done before. Apparently, it makes it more smokable, as you've
discovered.

He wouldn't be the guy behind Fu Cha Ju (sometimes transliterated Fo
Cha Ji), would he? Because I've heard that FCJ's 2003 cooked
Wuliangshan bingcha, which I love though not everyone does, was
slow-baked.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Mar 16, 4:20 am, Lewis Perin wrote:
"MarshalN" writes:
Sounds like tobacco smokers are discovering the joys of roasting their
weed. Tea drinkers have been doing it for centuries.

There's a guy in Taiwan who is a tea merchant, but is also famous for
roasting anything and everything. Tobbaco is one of the things he's
done before. Apparently, it makes it more smokable, as you've
discovered.

He wouldn't be the guy behind Fu Cha Ju (sometimes transliterated Fo
Cha Ji), would he? Because I've heard that FCJ's 2003 cooked
Wuliangshan bingcha, which I love though not everyone does, was
slow-baked.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /

He would be.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Mr Huang (Fo Cha Ju / Jing Mei Tang) is not the only person who
skilled in slow roasting everything, there are others, such as
(another!) Mr Huang of Zhu Li Guan, and the old teashop Wang De
Chuan...though Mr Huang of Fo Cha Ju may be the one who publishes most
of his findings.

Danny

On Mar 16, 5:34 am, wrote:
Mr Huang (Fo Cha Ju / Jing Mei Tang) is not the only person who
skilled in slow roasting everything, there are others, such as
(another!) Mr Huang of Zhu Li Guan, and the old teashop Wang De
Chuan...though Mr Huang of Fo Cha Ju may be the one who publishes most
of his findings.

Danny

Of course, but he's the one who talks about it the most often, I
think. There are lots of people out there who are quite skilled in
this sort of thing, with varying degrees of success.

Either way though, it might be something to be learned for the tobacco
toasting folks out there

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Interesting, thanks. I don't have much of the tuo cha left (my
original intent was to break it apart so I could drink it soon, but I
became distracted with other teas), but now I am really curious to see
what happens if I leave it for a while.

And I have a strange urge to start smoking. I don't know if that is a
good thing or not. Interestingly, if I am reading correctly, tobacco
is aged in tins, not compressed. They don't press it into cakes, do
they? Does a densely rolled cigar age better than loose tobacco?

On Mar 16, 6:01 am, "MarshalN" wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:34 am, wrote:

Mr Huang (Fo Cha Ju / Jing Mei Tang) is not the only person who
skilled in slow roasting everything, there are others, such as
(another!) Mr Huang of Zhu Li Guan, and the old teashop Wang De
Chuan...though Mr Huang of Fo Cha Ju may be the one who publishes most
of his findings.

Danny

Of course, but he's the one who talks about it the most often, I
think. There are lots of people out there who are quite skilled in
this sort of thing, with varying degrees of success.


Thanks for restating my comment...
:")

Mr Huang talks about it most often, yet not many understand the
theories behind his method. He asked me once if I understood what he
wrote and spoke about, and I told him less than 10%. Visit me, he
replied, and you'll understand another 20%...all in all, he is a very
entertaining person who is talks about almost anything under the sun.

Danny