Below this I've pasted part of an article by my tea supplier about the
importance of using freshly boiled water. My question is... if in a
commercial Tea Room I want to use one of those large Urns that keeps
constantly hot water for pouring on tap... does anyone know the method
they use for keeping the water hot? Are they constantly re-boiling the
water or does it boil then hold it at just below boiling?

If a system like this holds boiled water at a high temperature just
below boiling, is it still losing the all important CO2 qualities
needed (at a slower rate than boiling it off but still decreasing)? I
wonder if there is any research on this, I assume it's fairly simple
science.

If a large hot water urn is not ideal then perhaps a line of variable
temperature kettles set to different temps for Black tea, Oolong,
Green tea etc. Unfortunately I'm struggling to find a commercial
product that fits this description though I've seen these Upton
Variable Temperature Kettles (ordered from a manufacturer and labelled
thier own, not sure who the original manufacturer is) PDF info:
http://uptontea.com/shopcart/informa...AK16_GUIDE.pdf

With the intention of being a busy tea room I am aware of how much
boiling kettles for each order will slow things down, while I'll
nurture the slower nature of the tea experience I am aware of needing
a compromise with the necessity of turnover, but ultimately I won't
compromise on quality at the end of the day. If there is not better
alternative to simply boiling a kettle I'll just do that )

Any knowledge or experience with this anyone??

Look forward to hearing back, Jon

....................................

" Taste, colour and mouth feel depend on the interaction between the
two main components of tea, polyphenols and caffeine. Each component
is astringent on its own, but as a complex the astringent character is
reduced.

Water is known to contain dissolved gases absorbed from the air.
Carbon dioxide (CO2) gas that is present in water affects the acidity.
Acidity of water plays a critical roll in the ionization of tea
polyphenols and it contributes to the stability of the above complex.

CO2 in water is gradually released during the boiling process. Re-
boiling will in fact further reduce CO2 levels, resulting in a
decrease in the acidity. As mentioned above this will affect the
caffeine and polyphenol complexion, and bring about changes in the
colour as well as the character of the brew.

Twice boiled water will therefore affect the taste of a good tea and
hence our request that only freshly boiled water is used for brewing "

jonny kane wrote:
Below this I've pasted part of an article by my tea supplier about the
importance of using freshly boiled water. My question is... if in a
commercial Tea Room I want to use one of those large Urns that keeps
constantly hot water for pouring on tap... does anyone know the method
they use for keeping the water hot? Are they constantly re-boiling the
water or does it boil then hold it at just below boiling?

Most of them don't get anywhere near boiling, which is really bad for
making black tesa.

If a system like this holds boiled water at a high temperature just
below boiling, is it still losing the all important CO2 qualities
needed (at a slower rate than boiling it off but still decreasing)? I
wonder if there is any research on this, I assume it's fairly simple
science.

I think dissolved oxygen release is more important than dissolved CO2,
but I may be wrong. I will agree, though, that tea made with water that
has been on the boil for too long tastes flat.

If a large hot water urn is not ideal then perhaps a line of variable
temperature kettles set to different temps for Black tea, Oolong,
Green tea etc. Unfortunately I'm struggling to find a commercial
product that fits this description though I've seen these Upton
Variable Temperature Kettles (ordered from a manufacturer and labelled
thier own, not sure who the original manufacturer is) PDF info:
http://uptontea.com/shopcart/informa...AK16_GUIDE.pdf

The only large-scale commercial product capable of making large amounts
of boiling water that I have seen is the Bunn-O-Matic, which has a boiling
water tap available as an option. I would suspect that with some minor
modification, an appliance tech could add a thermostatic cut-off to reduce
the temperature of the thing, too. What you want is called a
"flash boiler."

With the intention of being a busy tea room I am aware of how much
boiling kettles for each order will slow things down, while I'll
nurture the slower nature of the tea experience I am aware of needing
a compromise with the necessity of turnover, but ultimately I won't
compromise on quality at the end of the day. If there is not better
alternative to simply boiling a kettle I'll just do that )

How much tea do you intend on selling, and of what kind? If 90% of
what you sell is black tea, then having a flash boiler for boiling
water and then making the other teas with a kettle would be fine.
If 90% of what you sell is green tea, that would be a disaster.

And, of course, you can get away with murder brewing most tisanes...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

jonny kane wrote:
Below this I've pasted part of an article by my tea supplier about the
importance of using freshly boiled water.

It is important, and I've kicked the idea around of opening my own tea
shop and this was one of the areas I spent a lot of time thinking
about. My opinion right now on it is to actually boil the water either
per pot of tea ordered and keep a few kettles at steady temps for
certain periods of time for individual cups ordered... then just
change out the water at those intervals. The water doesn't have to go
to waste, it can be used for plants or any number of other things
besides tea.

I like that bit of personal service it offers and it seems like the
right thing for me.

People wait around a Starbucks for their espresso, so I see no reason
they can't wait for the best water.

- Dominic

Water ist the most important ingredient in the tea you are going to be
drinking and hopefully enjoying to the extend that you will long for
a refill.

in a nutshell:
only fresh water does the job.
If you ahve 6 US$ and a 60 $ Darjeeling and you take anythingelse but
freshly brewed water the two teas will taste the same.
A hint of Darjeeling will be there but there are 54US$ :-) lost in the
process.
For the restaurant and bar environments there are proven solutions
for the challenge of having to prepare a good cup of tea in a hurry
without compromising on the quality.

jonny kane schrieb:
Below this I've pasted part of an article by my tea supplier about the
importance of using freshly boiled water. My question is... if in a
commercial Tea Room I want to use one of those large Urns that keeps
constantly hot water for pouring on tap... does anyone know the method
they use for keeping the water hot? Are they constantly re-boiling the
water or does it boil then hold it at just below boiling?

If a system like this holds boiled water at a high temperature just
below boiling, is it still losing the all important CO2 qualities
needed (at a slower rate than boiling it off but still decreasing)? I
wonder if there is any research on this, I assume it's fairly simple
science.

If a large hot water urn is not ideal then perhaps a line of variable
temperature kettles set to different temps for Black tea, Oolong,
Green tea etc. Unfortunately I'm struggling to find a commercial
product that fits this description though I've seen these Upton
Variable Temperature Kettles (ordered from a manufacturer and labelled
thier own, not sure who the original manufacturer is) PDF info:
http://uptontea.com/shopcart/informa...AK16_GUIDE.pdf

With the intention of being a busy tea room I am aware of how much
boiling kettles for each order will slow things down, while I'll
nurture the slower nature of the tea experience I am aware of needing
a compromise with the necessity of turnover, but ultimately I won't
compromise on quality at the end of the day. If there is not better
alternative to simply boiling a kettle I'll just do that )

Any knowledge or experience with this anyone??

Look forward to hearing back, Jon

...................................

" Taste, colour and mouth feel depend on the interaction between the
two main components of tea, polyphenols and caffeine. Each component
is astringent on its own, but as a complex the astringent character is
reduced.

Water is known to contain dissolved gases absorbed from the air.
Carbon dioxide (CO2) gas that is present in water affects the acidity.
Acidity of water plays a critical roll in the ionization of tea
polyphenols and it contributes to the stability of the above complex.

CO2 in water is gradually released during the boiling process. Re-
boiling will in fact further reduce CO2 levels, resulting in a
decrease in the acidity. As mentioned above this will affect the
caffeine and polyphenol complexion, and bring about changes in the
colour as well as the character of the brew.

Twice boiled water will therefore affect the taste of a good tea and
hence our request that only freshly boiled water is used for brewing "

On Feb 24, 6:35 pm, KALLE GRIEGER wrote:

in a nutshell:
only fresh water does the job.
If you ahve 6 US$ and a 60 $ Darjeeling and you take anythingelse but
freshly brewed water the two teas will taste the same.
A hint of Darjeeling will be there but there are 54US$ :-) lost in the
process.

Namaste,
some of my friends in Darjeeling agree that there´s no better water
for DJs than the local tap water up there, it´ll make your $60 DJ
taste like a $100 brew, I totally agree. During my stopovers in
Germania I usually waste a lot of time in order to get the max out of
my DJ leaves but whatever I tried so far [all kinds of water and
minerals, weird scientific experiments] I never got it spot on over
here - it´s still a different story up there. On the other hand my
Assams and Eastfrisean blends taste just great over here, I guess I can
´t have it all, but would prefer it the other way round.
Can´t wait to move back to my beloved land of the thunder bolt,
hopefully in time for the 2nd flush.
Wish me luck folks.

Karsten [on tap: 2006 M.Hope 2nd Muscatel, not bad at all]

Namaste,
some of my friends in Darjeeling agree that there´s no better water
for DJs than the local tap water up there, it´ll make your $60 DJ
taste like a $100 brew, I totally agree.

Karsten, While I agree with the sentiment (Darjeeling water is pure as
pure can get), I would suggest trying one experiment. Collect rain
water in a urn, and try using that. Or use melted snow water to brew
the tea. I mention this because in the desert state of Rajasthan
where I come from, the well water tends to be incredibly brackish. So
my family built a underground tank in which we would collect rain
water to be used during the course of the year. This water is SWEET -
sweeter than sugared water!! And the tea that comes out of it is
incredible.

Mind you, the quality of rain or snow water will depend a lot on where
you are. If you are in an industrial city, I would not recommend it
at all, as you are likely to get a lot of chemicals from the air in
the water. On the other hand, if you are in a rural area, you should
be fine.

Try it once and let us know what your experience is.

Pavansut

--------------
www.jayateas.com
PREMIUM TEAS FROM THE HIGHLANDS

Jonny: You are asking some great questions...

commercial Tea Room I want to use one of those large Urns that keeps
constantly hot water for pouring on tap... does anyone know the method
they use for keeping the water hot? Are they constantly re-boiling the
water or does it boil then hold it at just below boiling?

I just did a demo of tea for a restaurant, and it was a disaster. The
tea was at such low temperature that it produced neither the liquor
nor the color

I think dissolved oxygen release is more important than dissolved CO2,
but I may be wrong. I will agree, though, that tea made with water that
has been on the boil for too long tastes flat.

Yes, what Scott says is very true. Besides, the temperature of the
large boiler depends on how often it is calibrated. Most people will
calibrate it and forget about it until they have a problem.

If a large hot water urn is not ideal then perhaps a line of variable
temperature kettles set to different temps for Black tea, Oolong,
Green tea etc. Unfortunately I'm struggling to find a commercial
product that fits this description though I've seen these Upton

In India, where they have been brewing tea for hundreds of years, each
batch is freshly brewed with fresh water. Tea is not something that
can be made with water that has been boiling for hours.

While a variable temperature kettle is fine, I would recommend going
with the low tech approach - the traditional kettle - that is boiled
on the stove. Get two or three such kettles, and experiment with
them. When the first one is half empty, put the second kettle on the
stove...and so on.

For Oolongs and Greens, you may arrive at a simple solution - such as
pouring the water into the cup or pot for X amount of time before
adding the tea (you'll need to figure out the X depending on the
elevation you are at)

With the intention of being a busy tea room I am aware of how much
boiling kettles for each order will slow things down, while I'll
nurture the slower nature of the tea experience I am aware of needing
a compromise with the necessity of turnover, but ultimately I won't
compromise on quality at the end of the day. If there is not better
alternative to simply boiling a kettle I'll just do that )

Good for you! Some times its better to not take a short cut. This
will really help you differentiate yourself from others. Make sure
you inform your clients about this as if they don't know about it, the
value of this process will be lost on them.

P

-------
www.jayatea.com
Premium Teas From The Highlands

On Feb 25, 3:47 pm, "indiantealover" wrote:

Karsten, While I agree with the sentiment (Darjeeling water is pure as
pure can get), I would suggest trying one experiment. Collect rain
water in a urn, and try using that. Or use melted snow water to brew
the tea. I mention this because in the desert state of Rajasthan
where I come from, the well water tends to be incredibly brackish. So
my family built a underground tank in which we would collect rain
water to be used during the course of the year. This water is SWEET -
sweeter than sugared water!! And the tea that comes out of it is
incredible.

Hi Pavansut,
I totally agree that rainwater can be excellent for teas, but IMO it
works far better for Assams and many greens than for Darjeelings. Most
of the times [harvest and sampling seasons] the tapwater in Darjeeling
comes from natural springs. It is not only rich in all kinds of
minerals, but I guess it´s that very special composition of salts that
makes it so unique. IMO Darjeelings don´t benefit from soft water,
they need a healthy amount of those natural spices to shine.
Assam as well as many greens [esp. shade-grown varieties], are
different animals. Right now I´m still stuck in the northwestern
german wastelands, 5km away from the heavily guarded [killer cows]
Eastfriesean border. The locals are true tea addicts, a day without
some pots of pretty strong Eastfriesean blend [~85-95% Assam] is hard
to imagine. Despite the fairly good quality of the local tap water,
which is veeery soft, lots of folks still collect rain water behind
their houses. Traditions are still pretty much alive over here.

Mind you, the quality of rain or snow water will depend a lot on where
you are. If you are in an industrial city, I would not recommend it
at all, as you are likely to get a lot of chemicals from the air in
the water. On the other hand, if you are in a rural area, you should
be fine.

This place is as rural as it gets. The risk of getting killed by a
raging bull is far higher than that of being run over by a car.
Just two weeks ago another farmer met his two-horned fate.

What kind of tea do the locals drink in your area ?

Greetings to Rajastan,
Karsten [still on Muscatel]

psyflake wrote:
Hi Pavansut,
I totally agree that rainwater can be excellent for teas, but IMO
it works far better for Assams and many greens than for
Darjeelings. Most of the times [harvest and sampling seasons] the
tapwater in Darjeeling comes from natural springs. It is not only
rich in all kinds of minerals, but I guess it´s that very special
composition of salts that makes it so unique. IMO Darjeelings
don´t benefit from soft water, they need a healthy amount of those
natural spices to shine. Assam as well as many greens [esp.
shade-grown varieties], are different animals. Right now I´m still
stuck in the northwestern german wastelands, 5km away from the
heavily guarded [killer cows] Eastfriesean border. The locals are
true tea addicts, a day without some pots of pretty strong
Eastfriesean blend [~85-95% Assam] is hard to imagine. Despite the
fairly good quality of the local tap water, which is veeery soft,
lots of folks still collect rain water behind their houses.
Traditions are still pretty much alive over here.
.....

Here is a website about 'Mineral Waters of the World'.
http://www.mineralwaters.org/
The site has a link to the mineral content analysis of a wide number
of bottled waters.

I totally agree that rainwater can be excellent for teas, but IMO it
works far better for Assams and many greens than for Darjeelings. Most
of the times [harvest and sampling seasons] the tapwater in Darjeeling
comes from natural springs. It is not only rich in all kinds of
minerals, but I guess it´s that very special composition of salts that
makes it so unique.

Karsten, you know you are right about this. However its a shame that
while Perrier is available in India, there is no mineral water from
Darjeeling that is yet available on the market. Now thats a business
idea for any takers!!

There is a brand called Himalayan water, but I seriously doubt that
the water comes from the Himalayas!

IMO Darjeelings don´t benefit from soft water,
they need a healthy amount of those natural spices to shine.
Assam as well as many greens [esp. shade-grown varieties], are
different animals. Right now I´m still stuck in the northwestern

I haven't done a comparison of Darjeeling water mineral content with
rainwater which does have some mineral content - although the mineral
content varies from the time when it is collected. For instance,
water collected as it starts to rain has high mineral content due to
the fact that the rain absorbs particulate matter from the
atmosphere. Whats even more interesting is that the rain water has
very high Oxygen content, (as well CO2 content) which is probably a
reason why the Darjeeling made with rain water tastes quite
delicious.

Yet, if I had access to Darjeeling spring water, I would go for it.
Alas thats not the case.

to imagine. Despite the fairly good quality of the local tap water,
which is veeery soft, lots of folks still collect rain water behind
their houses. Traditions are still pretty much alive over here.

There is a whole movement all around the world to conserve water by
catching it and saving it for personal use. I am glad to hear that so
is the case in Germany. Usually these movements are motivated only by
LACK of water, not by the desire to "ENJOY" the natural water. Where
I live now, most people are too addicted to the Clorine in the water
or the Bottle in which it comes from the factory :-)

What kind of tea do the locals drink in your area ?

Alas, I don't live in Rajasthan any more. Migrated to United States
many moons ago. But to answer your question, most people in Rajasthan
are too poor to enjoy Darjeelings. And most people in India (or
Rajasthan) who could afford a outstanding Darjeeling, are too
uninformed about the wonderful wealth they have. No, in India, and in
Rajasthan, most people drink chai made from CTC.

Greetings to Rajastan,

Thank you! If you have never been there, I urge you to take the
trip. It is absolutely a fabulous place (Please pardon the
enthusiasm; I am being a bit partial here as I originally come from
Rajasthan and so does my wife), and I would recommend the Pushkar Fair
(in Pushkar) or the Elephant Fair (in Jaipur). Here are a couple of
links for you to browse. One is a government website, and another
private one (no connection)

http://www.rajasthantourism.gov.in
http://www.pushkarfestivals.com/push...rajasthan.html

Above all, enjoy the muscatel!


Pavansut

----------
www.jayatea.com
PREMIUM TEAS FROM THE HIGHLANDS OF INDIA