I've been looking into used Yixing teapots and their rescussitation.
Several webpages discuss the matter in varying degrees of detail.

Guang at Hou De http://houdeasianart.com/teablog/ is a wealth of
knowledge and experience on the subject. He reports taking dirty old
pots to a local jeweler for ultrasound cleaning.

Billy Mood http://www.terebess.hu/english/yixing1a.html also speaks
with authority; he confidently advocates "pour[ing] 3 table spoons of
bleach, those that you used to bleach the floor, into the pot,"
followed by topping off with water and a 2-hour soak. Presumably, he's
talking about good ol' unscented chorine bleach.

Teasound http://teafiles.blogspot.com/ provides a detailed guide with
pictures of a cleaning system based on steradent denture-cleaning
tablets, lots of rinsing, and judicious brushing. One of the later
steps involves getting rid of the mint smell/taste left by the denture
tablets.

That last bit got me thinking, and I looked into denture cleaners.
They seem to be basically oxygen bleach (sodium carbonate & sodium
percarbonate) mixed with a bunch of other stuff--like mint flavor.
Oxyclean Free and OxyMagic (the chlorox product) have just the sodium
carbonate & percarbonate, which dissolve in water to produce a hydrogen
peroxide solution. I tried some out tonight on a stained procelain
teapot, and it worked great. Little bubbles rose from the stains until
they were gone. It turns out the home brewers have been on top of this
for years.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthre...874#post123874

Besides Oxyclean, there are specialized brewery cleaners that include
sodium metasilicate to reduce residual films.
http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages...age=sanitation

For teapot cleaning, films from oxygen bleach should not be an issue if
the pot is thoroughly rinsed immediately after the bleach has done its
work.

Anyone out there have experience using oxyclean or the brewing
offshoots on Yixing teapots?
BW

I think Danica just mentioned recently in another thread that she used
non-minty denture cleaner tablet to clean her mucky Yixing. Me thinks
anything that may leave residual smell, subsequently rid-able or not,
isn't preferable for your Yixing clay...

Floor bleach in Yixing? Ummm...I don't know, but it's a scary thought.
However, what Billy Mood said is even scarier, I guess:

"So long as you do not use concentrated bleach, bleaching will not
damaged the pot. Bleach is used because no other deteregent are capable
of removing all the rubbish and possibly poisonous stains that are left
on the surface of old teapots. Besides being treated to urine (yes!),
shoe shine brush, dirt, soil etc., some old pots may have been buried
with debris or even corpse for long period of time. It is healthier to
bleach the entire pot of all its unpleasant elements and start all over
again to develop the patina."

Phyll


Bill Wolfe wrote:
I've been looking into used Yixing teapots and their rescussitation.
Several webpages discuss the matter in varying degrees of detail.

Guang at Hou De http://houdeasianart.com/teablog/ is a wealth of
knowledge and experience on the subject. He reports taking dirty old
pots to a local jeweler for ultrasound cleaning.

Billy Mood http://www.terebess.hu/english/yixing1a.html also speaks
with authority; he confidently advocates "pour[ing] 3 table spoons of
bleach, those that you used to bleach the floor, into the pot,"
followed by topping off with water and a 2-hour soak. Presumably, he's
talking about good ol' unscented chorine bleach.

Teasound http://teafiles.blogspot.com/ provides a detailed guide with
pictures of a cleaning system based on steradent denture-cleaning
tablets, lots of rinsing, and judicious brushing. One of the later
steps involves getting rid of the mint smell/taste left by the denture
tablets.

That last bit got me thinking, and I looked into denture cleaners.
They seem to be basically oxygen bleach (sodium carbonate & sodium
percarbonate) mixed with a bunch of other stuff--like mint flavor.
Oxyclean Free and OxyMagic (the chlorox product) have just the sodium
carbonate & percarbonate, which dissolve in water to produce a hydrogen
peroxide solution. I tried some out tonight on a stained procelain
teapot, and it worked great. Little bubbles rose from the stains until
they were gone. It turns out the home brewers have been on top of this
for years.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthre...874#post123874

Besides Oxyclean, there are specialized brewery cleaners that include
sodium metasilicate to reduce residual films.
http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages...age=sanitation

For teapot cleaning, films from oxygen bleach should not be an issue if
the pot is thoroughly rinsed immediately after the bleach has done its
work.

Anyone out there have experience using oxyclean or the brewing
offshoots on Yixing teapots?
BW

Bill Wolfe wrote:
Anyone out there have experience using oxyclean or the brewing
offshoots on Yixing teapots?
BW

I'm not sure about the oxyclean, or bleach (although) I would imagine a
diluted bleach mixture would work without actually hurting anything...
however I use baking soda. It can be used with a toothbrush and water
as a paste and leaves no flavor, absorbs any odor and is a gentle
abrasive.

It has always worked for me, then I rinse it very well and scrub it
with a clean toothbrush and water, and then go through the boiling of
the pot as if it were new. I've only had to do this once with a teapot
that leaves got left in by accident and turned moldy. The pot is
perfectly usable again and no one would every know.

- Dominic

Interesting discussion.

Isn't part of the appeal of buying an old teapot that it has a well
developed patina? It seems like sacrilige to be cleaning (possibly)
decades of history off a pot!

On the topic of patina, does anyone know if the formation of the patina
refers only to the coating on the inside of the pot or also the
outside? In my experience the outside of the pot doesn't seem to get
more shiny. Actually, the tea stains seem to make it more dull. Maybe
i'm doing something wrong...

Adrian

TJV wrote:
Interesting discussion.

Isn't part of the appeal of buying an old teapot that it has a well
developed patina? It seems like sacrilige to be cleaning (possibly)
decades of history off a pot!

On the topic of patina, does anyone know if the formation of the patina
refers only to the coating on the inside of the pot or also the
outside? In my experience the outside of the pot doesn't seem to get
more shiny. Actually, the tea stains seem to make it more dull. Maybe
i'm doing something wrong...

Adrian

I guess the distinction is "old" or "old/"groady" as the OP has. A well
kept old teapot should be just that, and in my case not to be bought
and then used. I buy new teapots to season and use, and old ones for
the history.

The outside can change in a number of ways... I actually like it when
they get dull and stained with neat patterns. I have seen some really
old ones that actually were shiny and bright from age, and others that
looked like a second skin/tree bark on them. The individuality and
uniqueness is the allure for me.

- Dominic

Bill Wolfe wrote:
Billy Mood http://www.terebess.hu/english/yixing1a.html also speaks
with authority; he confidently advocates "pour[ing] 3 table spoons of
bleach, those that you used to bleach the floor, into the pot,"
followed by topping off with water and a 2-hour soak. Presumably,
he's talking about good ol' unscented chorine bleach. ... Oxyclean
Free and OxyMagic (the chlorox product) have just the sodium
carbonate & percarbonate, which dissolve in water to produce a
hydrogen peroxide solution. I tried some out tonight on a stained
procelain teapot, and it worked great. Little bubbles rose from the
stains until they were gone.

That's what I do and recommend - plain bleach. (I use off-brand
hypochlorite, since it's what I keep around for laundry.) There's a
specific oxidation/hydration cycle specific to polyphenols (presumably
most of what compose or bind old tea-crusts) that can chop big molecules
right down to CO2.

I dilute the stuff about 4:1 in hot water. It's pretty alkaline, and
repeated cleanings might etch the pot slightly - probably not a big
issue with clay, but certainly so with glass and porcelain. Dish
detergents include powdered silica specifically to inhibit such etching.

TJV wrote:
On the topic of patina, does anyone know if the formation of the
patina refers only to the coating on the inside of the pot or also
the outside? In my experience the outside of the pot doesn't seem to
get more shiny. Actually, the tea stains seem to make it more dull.
Maybe i'm doing something wrong...

High-fire clay isn't porous enough for tea to ooze through the walls.
Outside patinas are due to drips, overflow or deliberately
pouring/brushing tea over the pot. This is effective, since a hot/full
pot makes the outside dry very rapidly. It still takes a long time for
the patina to cross-link into a tough, integral film. Whether dull or
shiny depends in part on what's being deposited: tannins, oils and other
stuff in balance in various tea types.

If you want to, it's not that hard to clean the inside - even with
bleach - without affecting the outside coating, or vice versa.

I boil some new pots in cheap, very strong tea, then let the pot cool in
the mess and sit for a few days. This darkens the clay, and puts down a
base of brown stuff that, with regular handling/rubbing brings out nice
contours.

-DM

11/6/06


Interesting discussion.

Isn't part of the appeal of buying an old teapot that it has a well
developed patina? It seems like sacrilige to be cleaning (possibly)
decades of history off a pot!

On the topic of patina, does anyone know if the formation of the patina
refers only to the coating on the inside of the pot or also the
outside? In my experience the outside of the pot doesn't seem to get
more shiny. Actually, the tea stains seem to make it more dull. Maybe
i'm doing something wrong...

Adrian


Hi Adrian,
I usually rub the outside of the pot with a soft
cloth after drinking, while the pot is still warm.
It's a kind of luster you want rather than a shine.
In that, the little stains become quite handsome.
That's my take on it. BTW, I appreciate your
comments about the history of the pot as reflected
in its surfaces.
Michael

I boil some new pots in cheap, very strong tea, then let the pot cool in
the mess and sit for a few days. This darkens the clay, and puts down a
base of brown stuff that, with regular handling/rubbing brings out nice
contours.


dogma, doesn't this fly in the face of the idea that
pots ought to be used for one type of tea only
because the flavor permeates the clay and affects
the taste of later brews? (I know you don't hold
with that theory, but for those of us who do, I'd
recommend using a decent quality tea for this
dogma endorsed trick.) JMHO.
Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
I boil some new pots in cheap, very strong tea, then let the pot cool in
the mess and sit for a few days. This darkens the clay, and puts down a
base of brown stuff that, with regular handling/rubbing brings out nice
contours.

dogma, doesn't this fly in the face of the idea that
pots ought to be used for one type of tea only
because the flavor permeates the clay and affects
the taste of later brews?

No, because I use the same kind of tea for pre-seasoning as for later
brewing - cheaper than the best, leftover or otherwise needful of being
used up.

(I know you don't hold
with that theory, but for those of us who do, I'd
recommend using a decent quality tea for this
dogma endorsed trick.)

Oh, but I do. I just don't take it to excess. While one brewing of
cooked Pu-erh might spoil a pot for delicate oolongs for a long time, I
doubt that most of us could taste the difference after a few regular
brews if a pot were pre-seasoned with $10/g gyokuro or $2/pound green.

-DM

DogMa wrote:
Oh, but I do. I just don't take it to excess. While one brewing of
cooked Pu-erh might spoil a pot for delicate oolongs for a long time, I
doubt that most of us could taste the difference after a few regular
brews if a pot were pre-seasoned with $10/g gyokuro or $2/pound green.

-DM

I completely agree with this and do the same, in fact a close Chinese
friend of mine was a little put-off that I was seasoning one of my pots
with too good of a tea one time. I would stick to the same type of tea
for sure, but the pot doesn't know quality. In fact a simple seasoning
is hardly going to make a world of difference, it takes years to really
have any real effect and even then it is subtle.

The only real exception and I've mentioned it before is the one pot I
have had in heavy use for over 14 years with Jasmine green tea. The pot
has an amazing smell dry, and just hot water poured over it smells
instantly of jasmine. It has a great effect on the taste of the tea and
makes a noticable difference to even novices.

- Dominic

I would stick to the same type of tea
for sure, but the pot doesn't know quality.

Yes, it does.

In fact a simple seasoning
is hardly going to make a world of difference, it takes years to really
have any real effect and even then it is subtle.

Which is why I usually don't "season" at all.
I just use 'em after a thorough boil and cleaning.

The only real exception and I've mentioned it before is the one pot I
have had in heavy use for over 14 years with Jasmine green tea. The pot
has an amazing smell dry, and just hot water poured over it smells
instantly of jasmine. It has a great effect on the taste of the tea and
makes a noticable difference to even novices.

That being true, why would it not hold equally well
for other pots with other types of tea? (Not that you
said it won't.)

Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
Yes, it does.
....
Which is why I usually don't "season" at all.
I just use 'em after a thorough boil and cleaning.

I think these are a bit contradictory, the pot knows quality of tea in
a simple seasoning, but you don't find it necessary to season your
pots... I think we may be in agreement but just slightly off. If I use
a low-end tea (of the same type) for the initial seasoning but then
actually use the pot for years with the real tea I can't see how it
could possibly matter. The extremely minute influence the initial tea
chosen to season with vs. no tea at all are exactly the same IMO.

That being true, why would it not hold equally well
for other pots with other types of tea? (Not that you
said it won't.)

It will, but to varying degrees. Some teas make that kind of impact on
the pot and some don't. I'm sure cooked puerh would have a big effect
rather quickly since it is strong and sees many infusions at a time so
the pot gets heavily exposed. But with some oolongs I don't see this
change in my pots. I don't drink the more floral oolongs like TGY in
Yixing, which I'm sure would make an impact... but the oriental
beauties, shui xian, etc... and it just has not seemed to alter the pot
as much. Have you noticed any of this, since you drink a lot of
oolongs? I'd be interested to know.

- Dominic

Dominic 11/7/06



Michael Plant wrote:
Yes, it does.
...
Which is why I usually don't "season" at all.
I just use 'em after a thorough boil and cleaning.

I think these are a bit contradictory, the pot knows quality of tea in
a simple seasoning, but you don't find it necessary to season your
pots... I think we may be in agreement but just slightly off. If I use
a low-end tea (of the same type) for the initial seasoning but then
actually use the pot for years with the real tea I can't see how it
could possibly matter. The extremely minute influence the initial tea
chosen to season with vs. no tea at all are exactly the same IMO.

The pot knows when your respect for it is so low that you
are willing to pop lousy cheap tea into it under the name
of "seasoning." On the other hand, the pot is not in need
of seasoning since use will slowly gain the desired effect.
Dominic, if the influence of the initial seasoning is so
minimal, why do it at all? A good cleaning to remove
the clay dust and debris ought to do it, right?

That being true, why would it not hold equally well
for other pots with other types of tea? (Not that you
said it won't.)

It will, but to varying degrees. Some teas make that kind of impact on
the pot and some don't. I'm sure cooked puerh would have a big effect
rather quickly since it is strong and sees many infusions at a time so
the pot gets heavily exposed. But with some oolongs I don't see this
change in my pots. I don't drink the more floral oolongs like TGY in
Yixing, which I'm sure would make an impact... but the oriental
beauties, shui xian, etc... and it just has not seemed to alter the pot
as much. Have you noticed any of this, since you drink a lot of
oolongs? I'd be interested to know.

I do see your point here. You are coming from a very
practical and logical point of view. On the other hand,
the pot is alive and ought to be treated with respect,
regardless of science's latest dictates. That's my opinion.

I have one jade style Oolong pot that's been drinking
lightt Taiwan green Oolongs for over 30 years, not
all those years by me. This has not caused the kind of
drama you described elsewhere regarding your Jasmine
pot; nonetheless, the pot is happy, and so am I.

Michael


- Dominic

I read somewhere (and seem to remember it being reputable; Houde?) that
the initial period of use with the pot is particularly significant, as
the pores of the clay are in their virgin state upon arrival. The
article maintained that the seasoning filled those pores, and set down
the base for the future development of flavour and patina.

That said, I also season in strong-yet-average tea of the necessary
type, as suggested above by DogMa and Dominic.

I'd certainly recommend at least some seasoning, particularly for less
exalted pottery. I find that no matter how thoroughly I clean, I just
can't remove all of the particles in the newly-arrived pot, and
seasoning (soaking for hours) certainly helps.

Reading about Dominic's experience with the "just add water" jasmine
scent of his pot reminded my of a little 10cl pot I use for gaoshan
Taiwanese, which has a similar effect with that lovely wulong floral
aroma. Delicious! Who needs leaves?


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

Reading "the pot is alive" reminded me of an article on Phyll's blog,
about the... shape of the Xishi pot he'd received from Teamasters.

*Waggles eyebrows*