On Nov 6, 7:57 pm, DogMa wrote:
High-fire clay isn't porous enough for tea to ooze through the walls.
Outside patinas are due to drips, overflow or deliberately
pouring/brushing tea over the pot. This is effective, since a hot/full
pot makes the outside dry very rapidly. It still takes a long time for
the patina to cross-link into a tough, integral film. Whether dull or
shiny depends in part on what's being deposited: tannins, oils and other
stuff in balance in various tea types.

Good to know. I've been trying to 'raise' my teapots by leaving the
last steep in overnight, and I'm sure that's had an effect on the way
they taste, but it hasn't resulted in a patina at all, and now I know
why. Time to buy a brush!

Michael Plant wrote:
I do see your point here. You are coming from a very
practical and logical point of view. On the other hand,
the pot is alive and ought to be treated with respect,
regardless of science's latest dictates. That's my opinion.

Well I've been accused of much worse than being logical and
practical... That is how I live my life, and that is how I enjoy my tea
for the most part because over the years and in my experience it has
never let me down. I get caught up in emotion at times moreso in tea
than in any other area of my life, and in almost every case it has been
a letdown.

One can be practical and logical and still find releif, comfort, and
enjoyment. I'm not sure of why my opinions seem to spark such
discussion and polarized debate... I don't even see it that way. I'm
much easier going than that, if you think it matters to the pot and all
future brewing if that first boiling/cleaning happens in $700/lb. tea
vs. a $75/lb. tea of the same type (and I never said bottom shelf crap
tea) then so be it. But I could not see how it would matter in the big
picture, when the real tea is being used day in and day out for years.
Emotionally if that matters to you, then what's it hurt to waste some
quality leaf? Logically to me it doesn't and I don't, I've had a close
Asian friend scoff at the fact that I would season my one pot with even
a $60/lb. tea that I was using at the time.

I often change quality and variety of the same type of tea in a few of
my pots due to seasonal shortages and availability and it has never
bothered me or affected the pot negatively when I then brewed a much
higher quality tea later.

Also, back in the day they didn't have Houde or the internet or stores
where they were buying the exact same tea all the time... and that
didn't stop anyone from using and enjoying their teaware. Heck, even
seasonal variations in composition and flavor could be enough to throw
it all out of whack then if it mattered that much.

I think it much ado about nothing, I'm not seasoning my new Bai Hao pot
with Lipton teabags.

- Dominic

[Michael]
I do see your point here. You are coming from a very
practical and logical point of view. On the other hand,
the pot is alive and ought to be treated with respect,
regardless of science's latest dictates. That's my opinion.

[Dominic]
Well I've been accused of much worse than being logical and
practical... That is how I live my life, and that is how I enjoy my tea
for the most part because over the years and in my experience it has
never let me down. I get caught up in emotion at times moreso in tea
than in any other area of my life, and in almost every case it has been
a letdown.

[M]
I think here is the bottom line, as you express it: The
pleasure is up to each person to take as he will, free
of the dictates of others as to how tea should or shouldn't
be drunk. Since tea is dynamic, it matters little whether
you tea bag it or gung-fu it; the important thing is that
you have tea in you. I believe the same for music.

[D]
One can be practical and logical and still find releif, comfort, and
enjoyment. I'm not sure of why my opinions seem to spark such
discussion and polarized debate... I don't even see it that way. I'm
much easier going than that, if you think it matters to the pot and all
future brewing if that first boiling/cleaning happens in $700/lb. tea
vs. a $75/lb. tea of the same type (and I never said bottom shelf crap
tea) then so be it. But I could not see how it would matter in the big
picture, when the real tea is being used day in and day out for years.
Emotionally if that matters to you, then what's it hurt to waste some
quality leaf? Logically to me it doesn't and I don't, I've had a close
Asian friend scoff at the fact that I would season my one pot with even
a $60/lb. tea that I was using at the time.

[M]
Ultimately, it matters not. It's just a way of being
and a way of relating to the tea and its vessels. Not
everything is logical, even reasonable.

[D]
I often change quality and variety of the same type of tea in a few of
my pots due to seasonal shortages and availability and it has never
bothered me or affected the pot negatively when I then brewed a much
higher quality tea later.

[M]
Good. Than you ought to continue doing exactly
what you're doing now.

[D]
Also, back in the day they didn't have Houde or the internet or stores
where they were buying the exact same tea all the time... and that
didn't stop anyone from using and enjoying their teaware. Heck, even
seasonal variations in composition and flavor could be enough to throw
it all out of whack then if it mattered that much.

[M]
Truer words were never spoken!

[D]
I think it much ado about nothing, I'm not seasoning my new Bai Hao pot
with Lipton teabags.

[M]
Much ado about nothing is another phrase for life.
We're just biding our time, playing until reaped
grimly. Some might add that how we play has
its importance.

Michael

There seems to be quite a divergence of opinion about the definition
and desirability of teapot "patina." I've long cringed at the sight of
a glazed teapot whose inside boasted a thick brown coating that
probably harbored a thriving microbial community that, even if
temporarily chastened by boiling water would certainly do nothing good
to the flavor or nose of a fine Darjeeling. That brown coating is not
a patina but rather a stain, and there are respected sources--see the
Hou De tea blog for example--that regard tea stains as undesirable,
even disgraceful, in unlgazed pots as in glazed ones. Old pots
lovingly used for decades--that is promptly and thoroughly rinsed and
wiped down after each use--can develop a clean but glistening ("oily")
surface over time. I recently cleaned stains off an old Yixing
teapot--described in an earlier post today--using unscented Chlorox
OxyMagic, a peroxide bleach composed of sodium percarbonate and sodium
carbonate crystals. The bleach lifted and dissolved the stains while
leaving the shiny surface patina intact.
BW

TJV wrote:
Interesting discussion.

Isn't part of the appeal of buying an old teapot that it has a well
developed patina? It seems like sacrilige to be cleaning (possibly)
decades of history off a pot!

On the topic of patina, does anyone know if the formation of the patina
refers only to the coating on the inside of the pot or also the
outside? In my experience the outside of the pot doesn't seem to get
more shiny. Actually, the tea stains seem to make it more dull. Maybe
i'm doing something wrong...

Adrian