A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She
got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who
picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s
nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings,
inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs
of rust.
Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique
teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using
an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ???

Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse]

wrote:
A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She
got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who
picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s
nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings,
inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs
of rust.
Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique
teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using
an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ???

Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse]

While I enjoy Japanese green teas and senchas, I do not use any of my
tetsubin for brewing. All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack
internally no matter how much care is taken). I have a personal issue
with brewing or having metal even touch anything during my brewing, but
even without that I most likely wouldn't use it.

The cast iron makes exact temperatures tough, the dark color loses the
beautiful color of the tea until it is poured, they build up deposits
(which many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, and generally
feel unrefined and to me take away from some of the majesty. This is
only my opinion and many still believe water from a tetsubin is the
best for green tea.

Not sure how much history you know, or care about, but the plain
tetsubin are usually older before they became more ornamental and
status symbols later on when they came into fashion. They were hung
over a fire or heat source with water in them to add some heat and
humidity in winter. This fits more with the humble tetsubin than trying
to turn it into some delicate and treasured tea brewing vessel. They
are rough and utilitarian, and that is how I like to keep it. It sounds
like you have quite a nice piece there, you may want to look deeper
into it to see where it was made: Iwate or Yamagata.

I'd enjoy it just as it is.

- Dominic
Drinking: Spiderleg Sencha

A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She
got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who
picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s
nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings,
inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs
of rust. Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique
teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using
an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ???
Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse]

A Japanese iron kettle is meant to boil water, is it not?
The glazed interior, brew-tea-in-it sort is a rather new
development. One or two of our local stores carry
unglazed Japanese iron kettles, the assumption being
that they are used to boil water, not to brew. But then,
I could be wrong and often am....
Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum]

Michael Plant wrote:
A Japanese iron kettle is meant to boil water, is it not?
The glazed interior, brew-tea-in-it sort is a rather new
development. One or two of our local stores carry
unglazed Japanese iron kettles, the assumption being
that they are used to boil water, not to brew. But then,
I could be wrong and often am....
Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum]

Surprisingly no. They are in fact used to brew in. Many (unglazed even)
testsubin come with a metal strainer for tea. Tetsubin should not be
used on a stovetop really though. You have to remove the tea quickly
once finished and always rinse it out well and dry it completely so it
does not rust. They are a pain, and do not offer any benefits and if
anything add to the stress of tea time for me.

However, they are used for water only mainly in modern Japanese tea
ceremony so that may be where you were coming from. But originally and
still they were used for both purposes. Like I said almost more often
they were used secondarily for tea because the water was already
boiling for heat/humidity so either some leaves were thrown into the
pot or the water was used for making tea. I know a few Japanese friends
whose family members still use unglazed tetsubin with the strainers for
their daily tea, and many vendors quite clearly will tell you the
proper way to use your tetsubin is for brewing tea not for boiling
water on the stovetop.

Hell, I know one old Chinese man who boils water in his yixing on a gas
stove directly and then adds in his tea... who am I to argue? The pot
looks really cool from the fire/tea on the outside too, so nothing is
stopping you from using a tetsubin on the stove... and it is much more
sturdy than Yixing so go for it if you want. I'm not aware of any
secret tetsubin police

- Dominic

Yeah, no surprises here. However pretty it looks, it seems soo darn
impractical, weighs half a ton and screams to be used on an open fire
all day long, something I don´t have or in the case of rust want
around here or god forbid - in my brew. So I guess I keep it among my
antique cups and pots, until, maybe that one day when I move into my
cabin somewhere above the arctic circle and once in a blue moon feel
like having some Gyokuro in style.
Thanks for your input and again "hail the gaiwan" !

Karsten

Shui Xian! My large cache that I bought in China 2 years ago is all gone and
I cannot find acceptable price for good stuff here... Were you lucky enough
to fins a good vendor?
Is it Yi Wu Shui Xian? ... Is it? Is It? Is it?

Sasha.

"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
A while ago I received an old tetsubin from a dear friend of mine. She
got that little pot from her mother, who got it from an uncle who
picked it up somewhere in Japan in the late 19th century. There´s
nothing too special about this little pot, no stampings, markings,
inscriptions or anything of that kind, but at least it shows no signs
of rust. Right now it´s placed on display among my collection of antique
teawares but I´m wondering if anyone on this esteemed group is using
an unglazed tetsubin on a regular basis ???
Karsten [2005 autumnal Castleton in der Tasse]

A Japanese iron kettle is meant to boil water, is it not?
The glazed interior, brew-tea-in-it sort is a rather new
development. One or two of our local stores carry
unglazed Japanese iron kettles, the assumption being
that they are used to boil water, not to brew. But then,
I could be wrong and often am....
Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum]

Dominic T. wrote:
... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no
matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which
many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ...

I wouldn't use a glazed one; when the glaze chips off, it might wind up
in my gullet. I do have a big one that sits on the wood stove in winter;
I rarely pour from it, but it's nice to know that hot water's always to
hand.

On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent
organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly
happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan
shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if
the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to
direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the
carbonaceous film to the cast iron.

-DM

DogMa wrote:
Dominic T. wrote:
... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no
matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which
many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ...
On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent
organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly
happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan
shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if
the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to
direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the
carbonaceous film to the cast iron.

-DM

Exactly, that is why they highly prize the mineral/misc. deposits that
build up. They believe that the minerals are good for you and that the
buildup breaks down a bit and adds the minerals to the brew... me, I
don't quite see it in the same positive light. Although just as you
said with other cast iron cookware once "seasoned" it does most likely
seal up for the most part. I've seen some rough looking tetsubin, and I
just can't put that together in my mind or stomach with a beautiful and
delicate fresh green no matter how I try. Decoration and above fires
fit the bill for me.

- Dominic

Dog Ma wrote:
It would be more likely if
the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to
direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the
carbonaceous film to the cast iron.

I thought of that myself lately, something like keeping some strong
brew in the tetsubin, day after day, all day long, allowing the water
to evaporate over time.
It also depends on the actual water quality, content and composition of
minerals yadda yadda. Right now I´m still on the border of
Ostfriesland/Germania, with pretty soft (charcoal filtered tap-) water
(great for Assam based Ostfriesen Blends, baaaaad for DJs) and my
teawares stay relatively clean, whereas for example the tapwater in
Darjeeling is fairly rich in minerals and I see stains of any kind
develop quite rapidly, while basically brewing the same amount of the
same teas.

Dog Ma, it´s been a while ago for me but adressing polymerisation,
maybe you or someone else knows if the presence of iron ions helps in
forming insoluble complexes with the goodies (polyphenols) present in
tea ?

That brings up another question to the group:
what do your Yixing pots, especially yer older ones look like on the
inside (Oolongs/Pu-Erhs/...) ?

Karsten [time for the sack over here]





DogMa wrote:
Dominic T. wrote:
... All of mine are unglazed (glazed tend to crack internally no
matter how much care is taken). ... they build up deposits (which
many Japanese see as a good thing), they rust, ...

I wouldn't use a glazed one; when the glaze chips off, it might wind up
in my gullet. I do have a big one that sits on the wood stove in winter;
I rarely pour from it, but it's nice to know that hot water's always to
hand.

On the latter point: I wonder if, with regular brewing use, a coherent
organic film might form and passivate the iron surface? This certainly
happens with other cast-iron cookware, and is why a seasoned pot or pan
shouldn't be scrubbed down to clean metal. It would be more likely if
the pot used for brewing is also used for boiling, hence exposed to
direct heat that would enhance polymerization and bonding of the
carbonaceous film to the cast iron.

-DM

wrote:
... adressing polymerisation,
maybe you or someone else knows if the presence of iron ions helps in
forming insoluble complexes with the goodies (polyphenols) present in
tea ?

Don't know by reading or experiment, but it would almost have to: both
as a "core" for multidentate binding by several polyphenols or other
ligands, and as a redox catalyst to enhance the further polymerization
and cross-linking of the goo.

-DM

DogMa writes:

wrote:
... adressing polymerisation,
maybe you or someone else knows if the presence of iron ions helps in
forming insoluble complexes with the goodies (polyphenols) present in
tea ?

Don't know by reading or experiment, but it would almost have to: both
as a "core" for multidentate binding by several polyphenols or other
ligands, and as a redox catalyst to enhance the further polymerization
and cross-linking of the goo.

Goo? That sounds like the scum I remember in the tea I brewed with
the iron-rich on the southern fringes of Calcutta. It didn't just
look bad, it *tasted* bad.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

In the traditional Japanese tea ceremony an iron
kettle is deployed over a charcoal fire. What is the
Japanese word for this kettle? And what exactly is
the English translation for the Japanese word,
tetsubin? Water heating kettle came first, glaze
lined tea brewing iron pot came second. No
number of detailed facts are going to change my
mind. I would never allow myself to be swayed
by the facts.
Michael

In Chinatown you can find boxes of Xiamen Wuyi Rock Tea Lao Tsung Shui
Hsien $4/30g. That is the high grade versus their Xiamen Sea Dyke Shu
Xian $4/125g which is a little less rocky. I've never seen an YiWu
narcissus.

Jim

PS I just saw that Snapple EGCG green tea commercial again. In the
background are rock tea trees in the crevices of the cliffs. You'd
need a monkey to get at those or an inverted cherry picker. I only buy
Chinese teas from sites that can send me the characters. The last
vendor sent them in an Excel spreadsheet which I don't have installed.
I told him how to dump his spreadsheet in an HTM file and send me that
which worked. I'm going to try their version of a wild bitter tea
called TianShan LuShui. This is my first foray into a shopping cart
versus Ebay auctions but they do take PayPal.

Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Shui Xian! My large cache that I bought in China 2 years ago is all gone and
I cannot find acceptable price for good stuff here... Were you lucky enough
to fins a good vendor?
Is it Yi Wu Shui Xian? ... Is it? Is It? Is it?

Sasha.

"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
....fire in the hole...
Michael [Heavy Roasted Shui Xian Yummy Yum]

On 25 Sep 2006 06:00:36 -0700, Space Cowboy wrote:

The last vendor sent them in an Excel spreadsheet which I don't have
installed.

If you don't want to give business to Microsoft (which I can understand),
consider installing OpenOffice 2.0. This will give you Calc, their Excel
replacement.

Just to test, I threw some random Cyrillic characters into an Excel
spreadsheet (I don't have Chinese installed), and then opened the file in
Calc. It showed exactly what it was supposed to show.

And, since it's free, you don't have to regret spending a lot of money on a
piece of software you rarely use.

Now, if it's a drive-space issue, i.e. you're running out of it, this won't
help.
--
Derek

"Any event, once it has occurred, can be made to appear inevitable by a
competent historian." -- Lee Simonson

Michael Plant wrote:
In the traditional Japanese tea ceremony an iron
kettle is deployed over a charcoal fire. What is the
Japanese word for this kettle? And what exactly is
the English translation for the Japanese word,
tetsubin? Water heating kettle came first, glaze
lined tea brewing iron pot came second. No
number of detailed facts are going to change my
mind. I would never allow myself to be swayed
by the facts.
Michael

Note: Some modern tetsubin are made of alloys which claim to not rust,
I forgot to mention that before.

kama - kettle

shinnari kama - "true shape" based on the pot belly of the Tanuki (a
raccoon-dog) and the original kama, tea kettle, is seen to have this
same shape.

Tetsubin/kama can be made for use on one or both types of heat sources,
generally ro can be used for both heat sources while many furo are
furo-only.

furo - portable hearth/heat source (summer)

ro - hearth (winter)

kama and tetsubin are not interchangable to me personally, but are to
just about everyone else. I call the decorative non-used cast iron tea
kettles tetsubin, while I refer to the real deal old kettles and those
used in tea ceremony kama.

- Dominic