On Oct 5, 10:54 am, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

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On Oct 3, 8:35 pm, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

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On Oct 1, 3:28 pm, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

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On Oct 1, 12:47 pm, "James Silverton"

wrote:

I've only once had very fresh bluefish. Interestingly, it was at
Montauk and the fisherman brought it to the house on his way
home. It was very good broiled. I've generally found that much
older bluefish is not to my taste unless it has been smoked when
it can be delicious. Smoked bluefish might work as nigiri but
I've never tried it.

That's interesting, James. I tried Blues smoked once and it turned
out
mushy. The same for Red Bass. Both my Brother and I took a bite of
the
smoked Blue at the same time and both of us looked directly at each
other wondering if that awful taste and texture was the same for
them.
We both ended up spitting out the one bite and trashing the
remainder.

What method of smoking did you use on yours?

I know exactly what you are talking about. Last year I brought home
a small bluefish (accidentally caught while fluke fishing!) and I
mistakingly
used wet brining. That's how they brine Aji in Japan for dried fish.
The result after coming out of the smoker was a very mushy fish.
Clearly I had miscalculated the high water content of the fish
itself.
I made a metal note to myself that next time I would dry brine the
fish
then
air dry first before putting in the smoker. I still remember the
mental
note, I just
haven't gone fishing this summer.

I've never done any "brining" of any type. What exactly are you doing
with the brining and why, how does it work and how is it done?

For dry brining I use a mixture of salt and sugar.
Sometimes I'll use brown sugar. I sometimes add
herbs and spices, sometimes fresh cracked black
pepper all depending on how I feel that day.
For a whole fish I wrap it in aluminum foil and smother
with the mixture. One day in the fridge and the salt will
have displaced the water in the fish. Then I wash it all off
and air dry to form a pelicle. Then into the smoker.
I use trout, mackerel, butterfish for whole smoked.
For non-whole fish I limit the brining time since the salt is
absorbed much faster through the flesh as compared to skin. Wet brining
is
soaking the fish in a water amd salt mixture for several hours then
drying.
Either way, I was under the impression that this process was basic to
smoking any kind of fish.
Musashi

Thank you so much for your description of brining. I've never done it
in my life.

What is a "pelicle"? When you air dry it, you do this in an open
container in your house, or how?

A pelicle is the dry hardened crust or "shell" that forms over the fish
after it's been brined
and air dryed. Originally I thought it was merely "dried tissue" but someone
told me
that it had something to do with a change in the protein structure.
The pelicle traps the remaining moisture and oils in the fish during the
smoking process.

That's very interesting. Do you use regular table salt? I found a very
good article about smoking fish at:
http://www.3men.com/allabout.htm

I understand how a pellicle is created and exactly what it is. I was
thinking it was a crust of salt, but it's really just a "skin" that is
formed because of the salt.

When I air dry the brined fish, I do it in the kitchen and I use a very
small fan to keep air moving
over it. Not "on it" but "over it".

I got the impression from that article that even with a brine bath,
the air drying is needed and that a pellicle would form on the fish.
Am I going in the wrong direction here?

The way I smoke fish is to gut them while very fresh, wash the insides
out nice and clean, and simply put them on the smoker tray. I use
hicory or cherry wood and very low heat for an entire day.

Yes I use cherry, hickoy or apple. Usually about 8 hours in the smoker.

The fish tend to be a slight bit dry, but very, very tastey. I guess it's
more of a dried, smoked fish the way I do it.
I'm looking forward to trying your method.

May I ask you, do you find your finished product in need of salt?

Yes, however, I'm one of those people who love salt. I put it on
almost everything. A few years ago, a doctor told me after witnessing
my use of salt that I used as much in one meal as he did in a week. I
just love it.

Also what species of fish do you use?

My favorite fish to smoke in the whole world is "Whiting", or Southern
Kingfish. It's size and type of meat is so perfect for smoking that it
turns out perfect each time and has a flavor that is truly awesome.

This is the same fish that I now use as sushi neta also. It's really
good. Now I'm going to try the brining method of smoking and that in
turn may be good as neta. Have you used any of your smoked fish as
neta?

"John Doe" wrote in message
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On Oct 5, 10:54 am, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

ps.com...

On Oct 3, 8:35 pm, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Oct 1, 3:28 pm, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Oct 1, 12:47 pm, "James Silverton"

wrote:

I've only once had very fresh bluefish. Interestingly, it was
at
Montauk and the fisherman brought it to the house on his way
home. It was very good broiled. I've generally found that much
older bluefish is not to my taste unless it has been smoked
when
it can be delicious. Smoked bluefish might work as nigiri but
I've never tried it.

That's interesting, James. I tried Blues smoked once and it
turned
out
mushy. The same for Red Bass. Both my Brother and I took a bite
of
the
smoked Blue at the same time and both of us looked directly at
each
other wondering if that awful taste and texture was the same
for
them.
We both ended up spitting out the one bite and trashing the
remainder.

What method of smoking did you use on yours?

I know exactly what you are talking about. Last year I brought
home
a small bluefish (accidentally caught while fluke fishing!) and I
mistakingly
used wet brining. That's how they brine Aji in Japan for dried
fish.
The result after coming out of the smoker was a very mushy fish.
Clearly I had miscalculated the high water content of the fish
itself.
I made a metal note to myself that next time I would dry brine
the
fish
then
air dry first before putting in the smoker. I still remember the
mental
note, I just
haven't gone fishing this summer.

I've never done any "brining" of any type. What exactly are you
doing
with the brining and why, how does it work and how is it done?

For dry brining I use a mixture of salt and sugar.
Sometimes I'll use brown sugar. I sometimes add
herbs and spices, sometimes fresh cracked black
pepper all depending on how I feel that day.
For a whole fish I wrap it in aluminum foil and smother
with the mixture. One day in the fridge and the salt will
have displaced the water in the fish. Then I wash it all off
and air dry to form a pelicle. Then into the smoker.
I use trout, mackerel, butterfish for whole smoked.
For non-whole fish I limit the brining time since the salt is
absorbed much faster through the flesh as compared to skin. Wet
brining
is
soaking the fish in a water amd salt mixture for several hours then
drying.
Either way, I was under the impression that this process was basic to
smoking any kind of fish.
Musashi

Thank you so much for your description of brining. I've never done it
in my life.

What is a "pelicle"? When you air dry it, you do this in an open
container in your house, or how?

A pelicle is the dry hardened crust or "shell" that forms over the fish
after it's been brined
and air dryed. Originally I thought it was merely "dried tissue" but
someone
told me
that it had something to do with a change in the protein structure.
The pelicle traps the remaining moisture and oils in the fish during the
smoking process.

That's very interesting. Do you use regular table salt? I found a very
good article about smoking fish at:
http://www.3men.com/allabout.htm


I use Sea Salt most of the time.
Sometimes I'll use Kosher Salt in which case
the quantity goes up a bit.

I understand how a pellicle is created and exactly what it is. I was
thinking it was a crust of salt, but it's really just a "skin" that is
formed because of the salt.

When I air dry the brined fish, I do it in the kitchen and I use a very
small fan to keep air moving
over it. Not "on it" but "over it".

I got the impression from that article that even with a brine bath,
the air drying is needed and that a pellicle would form on the fish.
Am I going in the wrong direction here?


I think you are right.

The way I smoke fish is to gut them while very fresh, wash the insides
out nice and clean, and simply put them on the smoker tray. I use
hicory or cherry wood and very low heat for an entire day.

Yes I use cherry, hickoy or apple. Usually about 8 hours in the smoker.

The fish tend to be a slight bit dry, but very, very tastey. I guess
it's
more of a dried, smoked fish the way I do it.
I'm looking forward to trying your method.

May I ask you, do you find your finished product in need of salt?

Yes, however, I'm one of those people who love salt. I put it on
almost everything. A few years ago, a doctor told me after witnessing
my use of salt that I used as much in one meal as he did in a week. I
just love it.


After brining you may find no need to "add" abny salt to
your finished smoked product.

Also what species of fish do you use?

My favorite fish to smoke in the whole world is "Whiting", or Southern
Kingfish. It's size and type of meat is so perfect for smoking that it
turns out perfect each time and has a flavor that is truly awesome.

This is the same fish that I now use as sushi neta also. It's really
good. Now I'm going to try the brining method of smoking and that in
turn may be good as neta. Have you used any of your smoked fish as
neta?

I have no experience with Southern Kingfish at all since it's not caught
locally
and it's not sold here either.
I have never used any fish I smoked as sushi neta and that, going back, has
to
do with the amount of salt I use. If I intended to use it for sushi I would
use far less
or perhaps no salt at all.
I am not aware of any smoked fish being used as sushi neta in Japan,
although
cold-smoked salmon does appear sometimes as nigiri.
However, I've had oshi-zushi (pressed sushi) using grilled mackerel and from
the taste I am certain
that smoked mackerel woud make excellent neta. If it won't sit on a nigiri
well, I'd
put it into a maki.
M

On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 17:36:54 -0400, "Musashi"
wrote:


"John Doe" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 5, 10:54 am, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

ps.com...

On Oct 3, 8:35 pm, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Oct 1, 3:28 pm, "Musashi" wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Oct 1, 12:47 pm, "James Silverton"

wrote:

I've only once had very fresh bluefish. Interestingly, it was
at
Montauk and the fisherman brought it to the house on his way
home. It was very good broiled. I've generally found that much
older bluefish is not to my taste unless it has been smoked
when
it can be delicious. Smoked bluefish might work as nigiri but
I've never tried it.

That's interesting, James. I tried Blues smoked once and it
turned
out
mushy. The same for Red Bass. Both my Brother and I took a bite
of
the
smoked Blue at the same time and both of us looked directly at
each
other wondering if that awful taste and texture was the same
for
them.
We both ended up spitting out the one bite and trashing the
remainder.

What method of smoking did you use on yours?

I know exactly what you are talking about. Last year I brought
home
a small bluefish (accidentally caught while fluke fishing!) and I
mistakingly
used wet brining. That's how they brine Aji in Japan for dried
fish.
The result after coming out of the smoker was a very mushy fish.
Clearly I had miscalculated the high water content of the fish
itself.
I made a metal note to myself that next time I would dry brine
the
fish
then
air dry first before putting in the smoker. I still remember the
mental
note, I just
haven't gone fishing this summer.

I've never done any "brining" of any type. What exactly are you
doing
with the brining and why, how does it work and how is it done?

For dry brining I use a mixture of salt and sugar.
Sometimes I'll use brown sugar. I sometimes add
herbs and spices, sometimes fresh cracked black
pepper all depending on how I feel that day.
For a whole fish I wrap it in aluminum foil and smother
with the mixture. One day in the fridge and the salt will
have displaced the water in the fish. Then I wash it all off
and air dry to form a pelicle. Then into the smoker.
I use trout, mackerel, butterfish for whole smoked.
For non-whole fish I limit the brining time since the salt is
absorbed much faster through the flesh as compared to skin. Wet
brining
is
soaking the fish in a water amd salt mixture for several hours then
drying.
Either way, I was under the impression that this process was basic to
smoking any kind of fish.
Musashi

Thank you so much for your description of brining. I've never done it
in my life.

What is a "pelicle"? When you air dry it, you do this in an open
container in your house, or how?

A pelicle is the dry hardened crust or "shell" that forms over the fish
after it's been brined
and air dryed. Originally I thought it was merely "dried tissue" but
someone
told me
that it had something to do with a change in the protein structure.
The pelicle traps the remaining moisture and oils in the fish during the
smoking process.

That's very interesting. Do you use regular table salt? I found a very
good article about smoking fish at:
http://www.3men.com/allabout.htm


I use Sea Salt most of the time.
Sometimes I'll use Kosher Salt in which case
the quantity goes up a bit.

I understand how a pellicle is created and exactly what it is. I was
thinking it was a crust of salt, but it's really just a "skin" that is
formed because of the salt.

When I air dry the brined fish, I do it in the kitchen and I use a very
small fan to keep air moving
over it. Not "on it" but "over it".

I got the impression from that article that even with a brine bath,
the air drying is needed and that a pellicle would form on the fish.
Am I going in the wrong direction here?


I think you are right.

The way I smoke fish is to gut them while very fresh, wash the insides
out nice and clean, and simply put them on the smoker tray. I use
hicory or cherry wood and very low heat for an entire day.

Yes I use cherry, hickoy or apple. Usually about 8 hours in the smoker.

The fish tend to be a slight bit dry, but very, very tastey. I guess
it's
more of a dried, smoked fish the way I do it.
I'm looking forward to trying your method.

May I ask you, do you find your finished product in need of salt?

Yes, however, I'm one of those people who love salt. I put it on
almost everything. A few years ago, a doctor told me after witnessing
my use of salt that I used as much in one meal as he did in a week. I
just love it.


After brining you may find no need to "add" abny salt to
your finished smoked product.

Also what species of fish do you use?

My favorite fish to smoke in the whole world is "Whiting", or Southern
Kingfish. It's size and type of meat is so perfect for smoking that it
turns out perfect each time and has a flavor that is truly awesome.

This is the same fish that I now use as sushi neta also. It's really
good. Now I'm going to try the brining method of smoking and that in
turn may be good as neta. Have you used any of your smoked fish as
neta?

I have no experience with Southern Kingfish at all since it's not caught
locally
and it's not sold here either.
I have never used any fish I smoked as sushi neta and that, going back, has
to
do with the amount of salt I use. If I intended to use it for sushi I would
use far less
or perhaps no salt at all.
I am not aware of any smoked fish being used as sushi neta in Japan,
although
cold-smoked salmon does appear sometimes as nigiri.
However, I've had oshi-zushi (pressed sushi) using grilled mackerel and from
the taste I am certain
that smoked mackerel woud make excellent neta. If it won't sit on a nigiri
well, I'd
put it into a maki.
M

The smoked Whiting has a very delicate taste and the flesh is firm for
slicing while still holding moisture in the fish.

It must only be a line and hook fish. I never see any on the sea going
boats. After 30 years of eating it, I never get tired of it. It's good
in all the ways a fish can be cooked, or not.

Thank you for all the information you've given me. I'll be trying
brining on the next batch of fish in my smoker.