I am interested in opening a little sushi bar (just sushi, nothing
else) in a summer community that does not have one. How difficult is
this compared to a full restaurant? Anyone with any experience???

Thanks in advance

On 2007-03-18 18:50:51 -0700, said:

I am interested in opening a little sushi bar (just sushi, nothing
else) in a summer community that does not have one. How difficult is
this compared to a full restaurant? Anyone with any experience???

Finding a good sushi chef is about 95% of the process. And that is a
very difficult task now-a-days. They are very much in demand, and
regardless of talent they can be very expensive indeed.

Purchasing in places that specialize in fresh seafood can be very
tricky. If you buy too much you throw it a way in a couple of days as
inedible. Which can be very expensive. Or you serve it to your
clientele, which can be very damaging to business.

I personally find it heartening in a fairly busy place to find they
have no uni or shellfish on a Wednesday night and are quick to point
out they'll have it tomorrow. It tells me that they sold out, and they
don't over-extend their purchasing. In this way I can feel fairly
comfortable that what fish they *do* have is quite fresh.

But others see this another way and think that if they order a number
of items and the restaurant doesn't have them, that the place is
lack-luster and imcompetent. Such perceptions, too, can be
clientele-shaping for the worse.
--
///---

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:24:22 -0700, Gerry
wrote:

On 2007-03-18 18:50:51 -0700, said:

I am interested in opening a little sushi bar (just sushi, nothing
else) in a summer community that does not have one. How difficult is
this compared to a full restaurant? Anyone with any experience???

Finding a good sushi chef is about 95% of the process. And that is a
very difficult task now-a-days. They are very much in demand, and
regardless of talent they can be very expensive indeed.

Purchasing in places that specialize in fresh seafood can be very
tricky. If you buy too much you throw it a way in a couple of days as
inedible. Which can be very expensive. Or you serve it to your
clientele, which can be very damaging to business.

I personally find it heartening in a fairly busy place to find they
have no uni or shellfish on a Wednesday night and are quick to point
out they'll have it tomorrow. It tells me that they sold out, and they
don't over-extend their purchasing. In this way I can feel fairly
comfortable that what fish they *do* have is quite fresh.

But others see this another way and think that if they order a number
of items and the restaurant doesn't have them, that the place is
lack-luster and imcompetent. Such perceptions, too, can be
clientele-shaping for the worse.

this leads to another point - taking into account the demographics of
this summer community to get an idea of the average palate; IMO it's
better to tell an informed customer that there's very little demand
for a particular item vs. buying it and watching it spoil because no
one will order it - unless you can palm it off in an order of
moriawase.

if you can't be certain of the clientele this sounds like a dicey
proposition.

if you end up selling mainly tekka maki & california rolls

"i can spell. i just can't type."

barry wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:24:22 -0700, Gerry
wrote:


On 2007-03-18 18:50:51 -0700, said:


I am interested in opening a little sushi bar (just sushi, nothing
else) in a summer community that does not have one. How difficult is
this compared to a full restaurant? Anyone with any experience???

Finding a good sushi chef is about 95% of the process. And that is a
very difficult task now-a-days. They are very much in demand, and
regardless of talent they can be very expensive indeed.

Purchasing in places that specialize in fresh seafood can be very
tricky. If you buy too much you throw it a way in a couple of days as
inedible. Which can be very expensive. Or you serve it to your
clientele, which can be very damaging to business.

I personally find it heartening in a fairly busy place to find they
have no uni or shellfish on a Wednesday night and are quick to point
out they'll have it tomorrow. It tells me that they sold out, and they
don't over-extend their purchasing. In this way I can feel fairly
comfortable that what fish they *do* have is quite fresh.

But others see this another way and think that if they order a number
of items and the restaurant doesn't have them, that the place is
lack-luster and imcompetent. Such perceptions, too, can be
clientele-shaping for the worse.


this leads to another point - taking into account the demographics of
this summer community to get an idea of the average palate; IMO it's
better to tell an informed customer that there's very little demand
for a particular item vs. buying it and watching it spoil because no
one will order it - unless you can palm it off in an order of
moriawase.

I've had a few sushi chefs tell me that before. When one said this
about saba, I had to kind of laugh and back away. Actually, I had an
ok meal there, but never went back. Any place that won't order saba
because it doesn't sell is not on my return visit list.

--
Dan

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:14:54 -0400, Dan Logcher
wrote:

barry wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:24:22 -0700, Gerry
wrote:


On 2007-03-18 18:50:51 -0700, said:


I am interested in opening a little sushi bar (just sushi, nothing
else) in a summer community that does not have one. How difficult is
this compared to a full restaurant? Anyone with any experience???

Finding a good sushi chef is about 95% of the process. And that is a
very difficult task now-a-days. They are very much in demand, and
regardless of talent they can be very expensive indeed.

Purchasing in places that specialize in fresh seafood can be very
tricky. If you buy too much you throw it a way in a couple of days as
inedible. Which can be very expensive. Or you serve it to your
clientele, which can be very damaging to business.

I personally find it heartening in a fairly busy place to find they
have no uni or shellfish on a Wednesday night and are quick to point
out they'll have it tomorrow. It tells me that they sold out, and they
don't over-extend their purchasing. In this way I can feel fairly
comfortable that what fish they *do* have is quite fresh.

But others see this another way and think that if they order a number
of items and the restaurant doesn't have them, that the place is
lack-luster and imcompetent. Such perceptions, too, can be
clientele-shaping for the worse.


this leads to another point - taking into account the demographics of
this summer community to get an idea of the average palate; IMO it's
better to tell an informed customer that there's very little demand
for a particular item vs. buying it and watching it spoil because no
one will order it - unless you can palm it off in an order of
moriawase.

I've had a few sushi chefs tell me that before. When one said this
about saba, I had to kind of laugh and back away. Actually, I had an
ok meal there, but never went back. Any place that won't order saba
because it doesn't sell is not on my return visit list.

that's certainly your perogative, but the fact that any specific item
may not sell well could be more a reflection of the relative
ignorance/ untrained palates of the clientele than it is of the
quality of the establishment. but it does seem somewhat odd that
something like saba doesn't move well. then again, i don't care for
saba except when i order batera made osaka style.

again, IMO the demographics of the customer base are as significant a
factor as the quality of the fish & skill of the chef. what sells well
will reflect the customer target demographic - which may be a factor
in one's personal choice in establishments. sushi is defintely
something where one size does not fit all.







"i can spell. i just can't type."

barry wrote:

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:14:54 -0400, Dan Logcher
wrote:


barry wrote:

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:24:22 -0700, Gerry
wrote:



On 2007-03-18 18:50:51 -0700, said:



I am interested in opening a little sushi bar (just sushi, nothing
else) in a summer community that does not have one. How difficult is
this compared to a full restaurant? Anyone with any experience???

Finding a good sushi chef is about 95% of the process. And that is a
very difficult task now-a-days. They are very much in demand, and
regardless of talent they can be very expensive indeed.

Purchasing in places that specialize in fresh seafood can be very
tricky. If you buy too much you throw it a way in a couple of days as
inedible. Which can be very expensive. Or you serve it to your
clientele, which can be very damaging to business.

I personally find it heartening in a fairly busy place to find they
have no uni or shellfish on a Wednesday night and are quick to point
out they'll have it tomorrow. It tells me that they sold out, and they
don't over-extend their purchasing. In this way I can feel fairly
comfortable that what fish they *do* have is quite fresh.

But others see this another way and think that if they order a number
of items and the restaurant doesn't have them, that the place is
lack-luster and imcompetent. Such perceptions, too, can be
clientele-shaping for the worse.


this leads to another point - taking into account the demographics of
this summer community to get an idea of the average palate; IMO it's
better to tell an informed customer that there's very little demand
for a particular item vs. buying it and watching it spoil because no
one will order it - unless you can palm it off in an order of
moriawase.

I've had a few sushi chefs tell me that before. When one said this
about saba, I had to kind of laugh and back away. Actually, I had an
ok meal there, but never went back. Any place that won't order saba
because it doesn't sell is not on my return visit list.


that's certainly your perogative, but the fact that any specific item
may not sell well could be more a reflection of the relative
ignorance/ untrained palates of the clientele than it is of the
quality of the establishment. but it does seem somewhat odd that
something like saba doesn't move well. then again, i don't care for
saba except when i order batera made osaka style.

But to me, that says they don't draw the type of people that will
eat the item I eat. In my opinion, this means the place is less
than satisfactory in quality and selection. My insticts are usually
correct.

again, IMO the demographics of the customer base are as significant a
factor as the quality of the fish & skill of the chef. what sells well
will reflect the customer target demographic - which may be a factor
in one's personal choice in establishments. sushi is defintely
something where one size does not fit all.

I look for quality and selection in a sushi bar.

--
Dan

On 2007-03-19 18:43:43 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

I've had a few sushi chefs tell me that before. When one said this
about saba, I had to kind of laugh and back away. Actually, I had an
ok meal there, but never went back. Any place that won't order saba
because it doesn't sell is not on my return visit list.

that's certainly your perogative, but the fact that any specific item
may not sell well could be more a reflection of the relative
ignorance/ untrained palates of the clientele than it is of the
quality of the establishment.

Right you are!

...but it does seem somewhat odd that
something like saba doesn't move well. then again, i don't care for
saba except when i order batera made osaka style.

I've heard most marginal sushi joints tell me that "experts like me"
like saba but most "Americans" don't like it. Too strong. Hirame? Too
mild. In any case this is the constant mantra of tourist joints.

But to me, that says they don't draw the type of people that will
eat the item I eat. In my opinion, this means the place is less
than satisfactory in quality and selection. My insticts are usually
correct.

That's my take: if their clientele doesn't like saba (read neophyte
gringos that like rolls rolls rolls drenched in wasabi) we are not the
same clientele. I'll never get a surprise, I'll only get fair fish,
little if any toro or uni and so forth.

Saba is the best test I have for many things in sushi bars.
--
///---

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:42:06 -0700, Gerry
wrote:

On 2007-03-19 18:43:43 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

I've had a few sushi chefs tell me that before. When one said this
about saba, I had to kind of laugh and back away. Actually, I had an
ok meal there, but never went back. Any place that won't order saba
because it doesn't sell is not on my return visit list.

that's certainly your perogative, but the fact that any specific item
may not sell well could be more a reflection of the relative
ignorance/ untrained palates of the clientele than it is of the
quality of the establishment.

Right you are!

...but it does seem somewhat odd that
something like saba doesn't move well. then again, i don't care for
saba except when i order batera made osaka style.

I've heard most marginal sushi joints tell me that "experts like me"
like saba but most "Americans" don't like it. Too strong. Hirame? Too
mild. In any case this is the constant mantra of tourist joints.

hmm. now that i think about it, i don't see saba ordeed all that often
unless they're japanese.

But to me, that says they don't draw the type of people that will
eat the item I eat. In my opinion, this means the place is less
than satisfactory in quality and selection. My insticts are usually
correct.

That's my take: if their clientele doesn't like saba (read neophyte
gringos that like rolls rolls rolls drenched in wasabi) we are not the
same clientele. I'll never get a surprise, I'll only get fair fish,
little if any toro or uni and so forth.

you live down in OC, don't you? i'm in pasadena. there are a few
decent places in the SGV, but in this area, i generally expect the:
"not enough people order it" response when i ask about most esoteric
sushi orders.

IMO this reflects the fact that most of the ethnic japanese
originallysettled primarily downtown(little tokyo), around gardena in
the south bay, and in the valley. (there's a small enclave in monterey
park, but they're only 15 minutes away from little tokyo.)

there is a place only 10 minutes away (Z) where the chef now regularly
makes his own kohada (in season), as well as his own anago, has
kanpachi more often than not when possible, and makes a decent batera.
but he didn't serve these things regularly five years ago - it took
time to develop a sufficiently large customer base. maybe only a
minority of his customers appreciate that he serves his wihitefish
(hirame, tai, etc.) with yuzu & sea salt, or his habit of adding a
dash of yuzo gosho to the uni, etc. but i love it!

Saba is the best test I have for many things in sushi bars.

my top three litmus tests tend to be engawa, batera & kohada - and it
tends to work both ways - i've noticed chefs serve other customers
items they advised against for me.

tamago is also a pretty good indicator, but by that time you're
already done with your meal!
-------------------------
have you ever been to sushi sushi in beverly hills? shigei can be
quite mercurial but if you get on his good side it makes a difference.


"i can spell. i just can't type."

Gerry wrote:
On 2007-03-19 18:43:43 -0700, Dan Logcher
said:

I've had a few sushi chefs tell me that before. When one said this
about saba, I had to kind of laugh and back away. Actually, I had an
ok meal there, but never went back. Any place that won't order saba
because it doesn't sell is not on my return visit list.


that's certainly your perogative, but the fact that any specific item
may not sell well could be more a reflection of the relative
ignorance/ untrained palates of the clientele than it is of the
quality of the establishment.


Right you are!

You're mis-quoting. This was barry's reply, not mine.

...but it does seem somewhat odd that
something like saba doesn't move well. then again, i don't care for
saba except when i order batera made osaka style.


I've heard most marginal sushi joints tell me that "experts like me"
like saba but most "Americans" don't like it. Too strong. Hirame? Too
mild. In any case this is the constant mantra of tourist joints.

Saba is such a regular item at most all sushi bars in the Boston area,
so when I don't see it that means something is not right about the place.
If they tell me most people don't order it, to me it means they cater to
the lowest common denominator.

But to me, that says they don't draw the type of people that will
eat the item I eat. In my opinion, this means the place is less
than satisfactory in quality and selection. My insticts are usually
correct.

That's my take: if their clientele doesn't like saba (read neophyte
gringos that like rolls rolls rolls drenched in wasabi) we are not the
same clientele. I'll never get a surprise, I'll only get fair fish,
little if any toro or uni and so forth.

Yeah, that's how I feel. The only thing worse than no saba is way
over marinated saba. Its such a let down when I take a bit and have
to chew like crazy, suffering the strong vinegar taste.


Saba is the best test I have for many things in sushi bars.

That's how I feel. I eat tamago when it comes with a moriawase,
but I don't order it by itself. It may be a good test of a chef,
but its less interesting than a good piece of saba.

I only wish chefs around here would prepare their own kohada.

--
Dan

On 2007-03-19 21:32:22 -0700, barry said:

I've heard most marginal sushi joints tell me that "experts like me"
like saba but most "Americans" don't like it. Too strong. Hirame? Too
mild. In any case this is the constant mantra of tourist joints.

hmm. now that i think about it, i don't see saba ordeed all that often
unless they're japanese.

I never watched, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think of mirugai as
something that few non-Japanese care for. But hell I don't know:
everybody I see in sushi bars are gringos that are trilling the glories
of this roll or that one. I don't know if they are new to the cuisine,
or just novelty-locked.

you live down in OC, don't you? i'm in pasadena. there are a few
decent places in the SGV, but in this area, i generally expect the:
"not enough people order it" response when i ask about most esoteric
sushi orders.

So you gotta find the people. All of the shops I go to have a sizeable
proportion of Japanese.

IMO this reflects the fact that most of the ethnic japanese
originallysettled primarily downtown(little tokyo),

Always worth the periodic trip...

...around gardena...

Even better.

...in the south bay, and in the valley. (there's a small enclave in
monterey park, but they're only 15 minutes away from little tokyo.)

there is a place only 10 minutes away (Z) where the chef now regularly
makes his own kohada (in season), as well as his own anago, has
kanpachi more often than not when possible, and makes a decent batera.
but he didn't serve these things regularly five years ago - it took
time to develop a sufficiently large customer base. maybe only a
minority of his customers appreciate that he serves his wihitefish
(hirame, tai, etc.) with yuzu & sea salt, or his habit of adding a
dash of yuzo gosho to the uni, etc. but i love it!

Sounds great. And yes I agree, a good sushi chef can educate and guide
his clientele. That's what happened to me. But it's true I had to be
open to it. Overall I think Americans are less nervous about expanding
their tastes. But in the end many won't like ankimo or uni ever, just
like they'll never like anchovies, licorice or pate. If you have these
sorts of limitations, I believe, you tend to use limitation itself as
an overlay to your dining experience. Wherever I go I respond to the
question "Want to try this?" with "Yes', not "I don't know--what is
it?" I don't like everything, but it's a rarity that I find anything
offensive. So far: natto, cod jizz (whatever that's called). Not much
more than that.

Saba is the best test I have for many things in sushi bars.

my top three litmus tests tend to be engawa, batera & kohada - and it
tends to work both ways - i've noticed chefs serve other customers
items they advised against for me.

Yeah, like white tuna. Kohada is only a test in this respect: Holy
moly--they got kohada!

tamago is also a pretty good indicator, but by that time you're
already done with your meal!
-------------------------
have you ever been to sushi sushi in beverly hills? shigei can be
quite mercurial but if you get on his good side it makes a difference.

I haven't, no. But I must say, just being told that the chef is cold
"until he gets to know you", tempermental, or that a chef is a
tyrant--it doesn't matter what they serve, I don't have that kind of
patience. I once had a chef I really liked, but about 1 out of 4 times
he wouldn't talk to us and was generally a drag. Once he wasn't in for
a week. The other chef said, somewhat embarrassed, that he was out
because he was depressed.

I use to do a lot more exploring of sushi joints. We'd eaten at about
90% of them in OC a few years ago. It was a big hobby. But the more you
know, the less interest you have in guinea-pigging for anybody that
owns a knife. I don't do that any more.

Now it seems all our exploring is it in middle-eastern, Korean and
Vietnamese restaurants. My Japanese haunts are few and consistent. I
only have about 3 joints I even go to. In a way it's sort of a drag,
but in another, it's cool. I feel like I did all the "learning" part
already and now there's only the enjoyment part. The later is more
difficult to procure than the former.

I'm not longer blinking, stunned or curious, at everything going on all
around me. I'm relaxing and chatting with my wife. Who could guess! :-)
--
///---

On 2007-03-20 08:07:06 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

Right you are!

You're mis-quoting. This was barry's reply, not mine.

Yeah, I was responding to various parts of the dialogue as it unrolled.

...but it does seem somewhat odd that
something like saba doesn't move well. then again, i don't care for
saba except when i order batera made osaka style.

I've heard most marginal sushi joints tell me that "experts like me"
like saba but most "Americans" don't like it. Too strong. Hirame? Too
mild. In any case this is the constant mantra of tourist joints.

Saba is such a regular item at most all sushi bars in the Boston area,
so when I don't see it that means something is not right about the place.
If they tell me most people don't order it, to me it means they cater to
the lowest common denominator.

Precisely so. But then, Dallas isn't Boston, for instance. It's true
that it is a rarity that I find a place saba--so much so that if I
don't find it, it is a real attention-grabber. On the other hand at
the packed-to-the-gills places, say, in Huntington Beach I can be sure
it's going to be mediocre.

But to me, that says they don't draw the type of people that will
eat the item I eat. In my opinion, this means the place is less
than satisfactory in quality and selection. My insticts are usually
correct.

That's my take: if their clientele doesn't like saba (read neophyte
gringos that like rolls rolls rolls drenched in wasabi) we are not the
same clientele. I'll never get a surprise, I'll only get fair fish,
little if any toro or uni and so forth.

Yeah, that's how I feel. The only thing worse than no saba is way
over marinated saba. Its such a let down when I take a bit and have
to chew like crazy, suffering the strong vinegar taste.

Saba is the best test I have for many things in sushi bars.

That's how I feel. I eat tamago when it comes with a moriawase,
but I don't order it by itself. It may be a good test of a chef,
but its less interesting than a good piece of saba.

I only wish chefs around here would prepare their own kohada.

I just wish they had it more frequently. Or sayori. Only twice in
these parts with that. But as I say elsewhere, I'm no longer using a
drift net trying to try every last joint in the county.
--
///---

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:01:48 -0700, Gerry
wrote:

On 2007-03-19 21:32:22 -0700, barry said:

I've heard most marginal sushi joints tell me that "experts like me"
like saba but most "Americans" don't like it. Too strong. Hirame? Too
mild. In any case this is the constant mantra of tourist joints.

hmm. now that i think about it, i don't see saba ordeed all that often
unless they're japanese.

I never watched, but it wouldn't surprise me. I think of mirugai as
something that few non-Japanese care for. But hell I don't know:
everybody I see in sushi bars are gringos that are trilling the glories
of this roll or that one. I don't know if they are new to the cuisine,
or just novelty-locked.

you live down in OC, don't you? i'm in pasadena. there are a few
decent places in the SGV, but in this area, i generally expect the:
"not enough people order it" response when i ask about most esoteric
sushi orders.

So you gotta find the people. All of the shops I go to have a sizeable
proportion of Japanese.

i've become somewhat SGV-centric given the nastiness of rush hour
nowadays combined with the price of gas.

actually, i do very little exploration anymore - i prefer to visit the
asian way; that is, to go with another person who is already an
established customer with a more refined palate who can vouch for me
and put me into A-list category ASAP.

IMO this reflects the fact that most of the ethnic japanese
originallysettled primarily downtown(little tokyo),

Always worth the periodic trip...

...around gardena...

Even better.

...in the south bay, and in the valley. (there's a small enclave in
monterey park, but they're only 15 minutes away from little tokyo.)

there is a place only 10 minutes away (Z) where the chef now regularly
makes his own kohada (in season), as well as his own anago, has
kanpachi more often than not when possible, and makes a decent batera.
but he didn't serve these things regularly five years ago - it took
time to develop a sufficiently large customer base. maybe only a
minority of his customers appreciate that he serves his wihitefish
(hirame, tai, etc.) with yuzu & sea salt, or his habit of adding a
dash of yuzo gosho to the uni, etc. but i love it!

Sounds great. And yes I agree, a good sushi chef can educate and guide
his clientele. That's what happened to me. But it's true I had to be
open to it. Overall I think Americans are less nervous about expanding
their tastes. But in the end many won't like ankimo or uni ever, just
like they'll never like anchovies, licorice or pate. If you have these
sorts of limitations, I believe, you tend to use limitation itself as
an overlay to your dining experience. Wherever I go I respond to the
question "Want to try this?" with "Yes', not "I don't know--what is
it?" I don't like everything, but it's a rarity that I find anything
offensive. So far: natto, cod jizz (whatever that's called). Not much
more than that.

natto's about the only thing i don't care for, but it's palatable with
hot mustard - which is the only way even some japanese will eat it.

do you mean mentaiko? i sometimes get some from mitsuwa, mix it
w/mayonnaise & spread it over white rice & mix it all up with shredded
nori - kinda like a poor man's onigiri. but i've also seen it cooked
and served as a maki filling.

Saba is the best test I have for many things in sushi bars.

my top three litmus tests tend to be engawa, batera & kohada - and it
tends to work both ways - i've noticed chefs serve other customers
items they advised against for me.

Yeah, like white tuna. Kohada is only a test in this respect: Holy
moly--they got kohada!

like saba, it can be purchased commercially processed; kohada is like
saba in that it's obvious when it's over marinated - you have to
marinate it long enough for the bones to be soft enough to chew, but
over marinating makes the flesh kinda mealy in texture; when a chef
tells me on his own that he makes his own kohada, he's tooting his own
horn as it takes some skill to prepare it correctly. and i play the
respect game in return and compliment him on the kohada in particular
when it's warranted, which then boosts his opinion of my palate.

tamago is also a pretty good indicator, but by that time you're
already done with your meal!
-------------------------
have you ever been to sushi sushi in beverly hills? shigei can be
quite mercurial but if you get on his good side it makes a difference.

I haven't, no. But I must say, just being told that the chef is cold
"until he gets to know you", tempermental, or that a chef is a
tyrant--it doesn't matter what they serve, I don't have that kind of
patience.

being asian myself, i understand & respect that there is a hierarchy
of insider/outsider in terms of how customers are treated. moreover,
i've found that any sushi chef who's been trained in his craft the
traditional way tends to tailor his orders to the sensibilities of
each customer - and it's a natural thing to want to be appreciated for
one's skill.

appealing to that within the cultural context is often the difference
between a decent meal and a wonderful meal. in shigei's case, after my
first visit, the hostess commented that shigei seldom jokes or carries
extended conversations with first time customers. a lot of customers
there act like the typical ugly american if you know what i mean. i
used to visit various sushi places based on the recommendation of a
friend who would come in, greeting everyone in a loud voice, etc.
whereas i'd come in trying my best to observe japanese cultural
niceties (it's obvious that i'm not ethnic japanese, btw) eventually
he noticed that after a few orders, we could order the same thing but
i'd invariably get a better cut of fish. i tried to tell him that it
was based on respecting the culture but he never bought into it.

I once had a chef I really liked, but about 1 out of 4 times
he wouldn't talk to us and was generally a drag. Once he wasn't in for
a week. The other chef said, somewhat embarrassed, that he was out
because he was depressed.

i know of one chef like that in little tokyo. great sushi, but not
enough to put up with the emotional issues.

I use to do a lot more exploring of sushi joints. We'd eaten at about
90% of them in OC a few years ago. It was a big hobby. But the more you
know, the less interest you have in guinea-pigging for anybody that
owns a knife. I don't do that any more.

as i mentioned before, i prefer to return where the chef already knows
my name - unless i can go somewhere new and get introduced properly.

Now it seems all our exploring is it in middle-eastern, Korean and
Vietnamese restaurants.

garden grove.

My Japanese haunts are few and consistent. I
only have about 3 joints I even go to. In a way it's sort of a drag,
but in another, it's cool. I feel like I did all the "learning" part
already and now there's only the enjoyment part. The later is more
difficult to procure than the former.

it's hard to explain to someone who doesn't understand that i'd rather
have no sushi than bad sushi.

I'm not longer blinking, stunned or curious, at everything going on all
around me. I'm relaxing and chatting with my wife. Who could guess! :-)
--
///---


"i can spell. i just can't type."

barry wrote:

natto's about the only thing i don't care for, but it's palatable with
hot mustard - which is the only way even some japanese will eat it.

I just had some natto with my lunch today. I mix Guldens mustard since
I don't have a large supply of the hot Japanese mustard.

do you mean mentaiko? i sometimes get some from mitsuwa, mix it
w/mayonnaise & spread it over white rice & mix it all up with shredded
nori - kinda like a poor man's onigiri. but i've also seen it cooked
and served as a maki filling.

No, he means shirako (cod milt). Its disturbingly creamy.

Yeah, like white tuna. Kohada is only a test in this respect: Holy
moly--they got kohada!

like saba, it can be purchased commercially processed; kohada is like
saba in that it's obvious when it's over marinated - you have to
marinate it long enough for the bones to be soft enough to chew, but
over marinating makes the flesh kinda mealy in texture; when a chef
tells me on his own that he makes his own kohada, he's tooting his own
horn as it takes some skill to prepare it correctly. and i play the
respect game in return and compliment him on the kohada in particular
when it's warranted, which then boosts his opinion of my palate.

The commercially processed saba is pretty bad, in my opinion. Its way
over marinated and tough. One sushi bar near my house buys the prepackaged
filets of saba. The only time I order saba from them is in a saba shiso
maki. They do have good uni though. All the kohada I've had in Boston
has been overly marinated as well. I had some great kohada at Hatsuhana
in Chicago.

it's hard to explain to someone who doesn't understand that i'd rather
have no sushi than bad sushi.

Yeah, for two reasons.. the waste of money buy bad sushi and that I then
crave good sushi more.

--
Dan

On 2007-03-20 10:32:54 -0700, barry said:

I don't like everything, but it's a rarity that I find anything
offensive. So far: natto, cod jizz (whatever that's called). Not much
more than that.

natto's about the only thing i don't care for, but it's palatable with
hot mustard - which is the only way even some japanese will eat it.

do you mean mentaiko?

No I like that stuff, that's spiced herring roe, isn't it? The cod
jizz is actually the stuff a fish jizzes put on eggs to fertilize. Jizz
proper. I think it's the organs as well. In any case it has a textural
quality I can bypass.

have you ever been to sushi sushi in beverly hills? shigei can be
quite mercurial but if you get on his good side it makes a difference.

I haven't, no. But I must say, just being told that the chef is cold
"until he gets to know you", tempermental, or that a chef is a
tyrant--it doesn't matter what they serve, I don't have that kind of
patience.

being asian myself, i understand & respect that there is a hierarchy
of insider/outsider in terms of how customers are treated. moreover,
i've found that any sushi chef who's been trained in his craft the
traditional way tends to tailor his orders to the sensibilities of
each customer - and it's a natural thing to want to be appreciated for
one's skill.

Most certainly. Not being asian, specifically not being a Japanese
person, I'm delighted to forego most of the negative cultural mechanics
and absorb all the positive ones. I'm greedy that way.

appealing to that within the cultural context is often the difference
between a decent meal and a wonderful meal. in shigei's case, after my
first visit, the hostess commented that shigei seldom jokes or carries
extended conversations with first time customers. a lot of customers
there act like the typical ugly american if you know what i mean.

I do indeed. I do my best, as quickly as possible, to make myself seen
otherwise. On the other hand I like to relax, when possible, and not
make the process of engaging the chef a chore. Not to say that I won't
hold up my end of the ceremonial bargain, I most certainly will. I
just don't want it to supercede the dining event and my engagement with
my own party.

There have been times when I took a party of 6 or so to a special shop
I liked and was endlessly worried that these folks, admittedly not the
most sophisticated, would bungle all my carefully nutured currency with
the chef. They didn't. But I'm pretty reluctant to take the
newly-initiated to a sushi joint I care about. It's just too much
trouble and I don't get to concentrate on my own pleasure.

i used to visit various sushi places based on the recommendation of a
friend who would come in, greeting everyone in a loud voice, etc.
whereas i'd come in trying my best to observe japanese cultural
niceties (it's obvious that i'm not ethnic japanese, btw) eventually
he noticed that after a few orders, we could order the same thing but
i'd invariably get a better cut of fish. i tried to tell him that it
was based on respecting the culture but he never bought into it.

I've tried to explain the niceties of this process to others. And
frankly I enjoy them more than I can say. But they are quick to cut me
off with a "Hey, I'm paying the bill--he works for ME, I don't work for
him. I don't kiss any 'waiter's' ass." And so forth.

And as I'm sure you know, it's not just about getting
more/better/different/interesting food out of a chef (though that's a
valuable aspect), it's about playing the entire game correctly. You
get a refined and highly focused experience with food and ambience.
Many don't, but then apparently they are coming to get "full" at a good
"value".

I mentioned that we had such amazing dining recommendations from a tiny
very upscale bar in Morioka (they *walked* us to one with an umbrella!)
that before leaving we gave them a small box of See's candies. These we
had taken to Japan for such occasions. Back home somebody said, "What
the hell for? Your martini was already 10 bucks and you had a 10 dollar
table charge!" Incidentally when we gave it to them, they then
presented a pre-prepped and ribboned gift to us. This is what you get
when you're mutually appreciative and engaged.

Incidentally the Japanese can make cocktails. In the US they just pour
stuff in a glass.

I once had a chef I really liked, but about 1 out of 4 times
he wouldn't talk to us and was generally a drag. Once he wasn't in for
a week. The other chef said, somewhat embarrassed, that he was out
because he was depressed.

i know of one chef like that in little tokyo. great sushi, but not
enough to put up with the emotional issues.

Actually 1 out of 4 was just within range of acceptability, since the
food was always amazing. Fortunately I went with a friend so didn't
have to pivot on his interactive abilities each time.

I use to do a lot more exploring of sushi joints. We'd eaten at about
90% of them in OC a few years ago. It was a big hobby. But the more you
know, the less interest you have in guinea-pigging for anybody that
owns a knife. I don't do that any more.

as i mentioned before, i prefer to return where the chef already knows
my name - unless i can go somewhere new and get introduced properly.

Now it seems all our exploring is it in middle-eastern, Korean and
Vietnamese restaurants.

garden grove.

Anaheim, Garden Grove and Westminster respectively. I'm in Santa Ana.

My Japanese haunts are few and consistent. I
only have about 3 joints I even go to. In a way it's sort of a drag,
but in another, it's cool. I feel like I did all the "learning" part
already and now there's only the enjoyment part. The later is more
difficult to procure than the former.

it's hard to explain to someone who doesn't understand that i'd rather
have no sushi than bad sushi.

It's hard to explain it all to anybody who doesn't already get it. I
love the people who tell me about a great sushi bar: "Jeez the pieces
are gigantic!"
--
///---

On 2007-03-20 11:04:36 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

do you mean mentaiko? i sometimes get some from mitsuwa, mix it
w/mayonnaise & spread it over white rice & mix it all up with shredded
nori - kinda like a poor man's onigiri. but i've also seen it cooked
and served as a maki filling.

No, he means shirako (cod milt). Its disturbingly creamy.

That's the stuff, and described correctly. It's not the taste, it's the
degree to which the stuff gets "married" to your tongue and palate.
It's a little to "busy" for me... :-)
--
///---