"James Silverton" not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not wrote in message
. ..
Hello, !
You wrote on 10 Sep 2006 19:43:50 -0700:

w A lot of the octopus I've had, you'd need a hatchet to get
w through it!

It was cooked I hope! Raw octopus, even after being bashed
against rocks Greek style, bears a textural resemblance to a
truck tire!


I beg to differ. I've had raw octopus several times and the texture was
nothing like when cooked (rubbery).
Nor was it like the Rock-Beaten grilled Oktopothi of
Greece either.

M

I don't think Japanese and Chinese cooks know how to prepare octopus.
Italians do.

"How to boil octopus to make it tender":

http://italianfood.about.com/od/fres.../r/blr1070.htm

I don't think Japanese and Chinese chefs know how to prepare octopus.
Italians do.

"How to boil octopus to make it tender":

http://italianfood.about.com/od/fres.../r/blr1070.htm

wrote:

I don't think Japanese and Chinese cooks know how to prepare octopus.
Italians do.



I can't remember ever having had octopus in China or in a US Chinese
restaurant.

But, leaving aside tako sushi, the best octopus (one of my very favorite
foods) I've had has in been in Italy, in Japanese restaurants in the US,
such as Sushi Ten in Tucson, and in Mexican restaurants such as Mariscos
Chihuahua in Tucson.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

wrote in message
oups.com...
I don't think Japanese and Chinese cooks know how to prepare octopus.
Italians do.

"How to boil octopus to make it tender":

http://italianfood.about.com/od/fres.../r/blr1070.htm


While I find that article very informative and interesting, I find your
comment strange considering
how long Octopus has been eaten in Japan, and the fact that apart from
Americans of mediterranean
background, the first time many American taste octopus for the first time in
their lives is often in a sushi bar.
The the medierranean countries have a very different approach to preparing
Octopus from Japanese. I've had
Octopus in Italian, Greek, Spanish and Portuese cooking, with my personal
"most tender" octopus having
been Portugese. Literally melt in your mouth tender.
But Octopus in Japanese cuisine isn't suppose to be like that. It's supposed
to have a firm texture and
be flavorful. Raw Octopus Sashimi for obvious reasons is more tender than
any Octopus cooked anywhere in the world.
Also, with regard to your comment, I've never had octopus in Chinese
cuisine. Although I don't doubt it exists
particularly in seafood oriented areas and I would wager that it is tasty,
as is most Chinese dishes.
M

Hello, Musashi!
You wrote on Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:57:30 GMT:

??
M I beg to differ. I've had raw octopus several times and the
M texture was nothing like when cooked (rubbery).
M Nor was it like the Rock-Beaten grilled Oktopothi of
M Greece either.

It's an interesting observation but I think we need to be a
little more specific about what we talking about. There are
several type of octopus eaten even in Japanese restaurants. My
understanding is that all I have eaten has been cooked, ranging
from baby octopus gunkan style to nigiri using thin slices of
much larger cephalopods. The octopus on the nigiri is always
opaque white with purplish pink edges and I take that to mean it
has been cooked. The texture is firm but not tough.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

"James Silverton" not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not wrote in message
. ..
Hello, Musashi!
You wrote on Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:57:30 GMT:

??
M I beg to differ. I've had raw octopus several times and the
M texture was nothing like when cooked (rubbery).
M Nor was it like the Rock-Beaten grilled Oktopothi of
M Greece either.

It's an interesting observation but I think we need to be a
little more specific about what we talking about. There are
several type of octopus eaten even in Japanese restaurants. My
understanding is that all I have eaten has been cooked, ranging
from baby octopus gunkan style to nigiri using thin slices of
much larger cephalopods. The octopus on the nigiri is always
opaque white with purplish pink edges and I take that to mean it
has been cooked. The texture is firm but not tough.


Yes James, the Tako you see on nigirizushi which are slices of legs where
the outside is purple
and the inside a very snowy white is boiled. The same boiled Octopus served
"sashimi-style"
is often called Tako Wasa, simply because it is eaten with the usual soy
sauce and wasabi.
This is supposed to be firm but rich in taste, especially as you chew it.
Very small Octopus are called ii-dako and usually served marinated in a
sauce and cooked.
I have never seen this as sushi neta either in standard form or gunkan, but
maybe I have simply not been in the right place.
Often confused with small octopus are squid legs called "geso" which are a
fairly common sushi neta and
served in both standard form and in gunkan style, often using a "tsume"
sauce like on anago.
Completely raw octopus is almost always served as sashimi, it is not the
same color as cooked octopus at all.
Hatsuhana in midtown NYC has it but you have to ask for it. Some places in
Japan do use raw octopus
as sushi neta, but I have never personally experienced this.
M

Musashi wrote:

Very small Octopus are called ii-dako and usually served
marinated in a sauce and cooked.


These are, by the way, very similar to the Italian Moscardini, which are
often seen on restaurant menus in Italy, and which I like very much.
Although the octopus are probably the same, the sauce and flavor are of
course different. However the overall style of the dish is surprisingly
similar. I like both a lot.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:01:19 GMT, "Musashi"
wrote:

Also, with regard to your comment, I've never had octopus in Chinese
cuisine. Although I don't doubt it exists
particularly in seafood oriented areas and I would wager that it is tasty,
as is most Chinese dishes.
M

speaking as someone whose father is a chinese immigrant who worked as
a chef in a chinese restaurant for decades, the cooked octopus my
father has prepared is tasty and quite tender when prepared properly.
as with shellfish/mollusks etc, in general, the trick is not to
overcook it - with one possible exception being how the "abalone king"
chef from hong kong whose name momentarily escapes me developed a
method for steaming abalone for hours (with ingredients including a
whole chicken) and charged about $800 for a dinner for four the last
time he was here in southern california. unfortunately i couldn't find
3 other people willing to spring for it.



"i can spell. i just can't type."

barry wrote:

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:01:19 GMT, "Musashi"
wrote:

Also, with regard to your comment, I've never had octopus in Chinese
cuisine. Although I don't doubt it exists
particularly in seafood oriented areas and I would wager that it is
tasty, as is most Chinese dishes.
M

speaking as someone whose father is a chinese immigrant who worked as
a chef in a chinese restaurant for decades, the cooked octopus my
father has prepared is tasty and quite tender when prepared properly.


I love octopus and I love Chinese food. As I said in another message in this
thread, I've never had octopus either in China or in Chinese restaurants in
the US, but I would jump at the chance to have some if I saw it.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ken Blake wrote:
barry wrote:


On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:01:19 GMT, "Musashi"
wrote:


Also, with regard to your comment, I've never had octopus in Chinese
cuisine. Although I don't doubt it exists
particularly in seafood oriented areas and I would wager that it is
tasty, as is most Chinese dishes.
M

speaking as someone whose father is a chinese immigrant who worked as
a chef in a chinese restaurant for decades, the cooked octopus my
father has prepared is tasty and quite tender when prepared properly.



I love octopus and I love Chinese food. As I said in another message in this
thread, I've never had octopus either in China or in Chinese restaurants in
the US, but I would jump at the chance to have some if I saw it.

I don't think I've ever had Chinese cooked octopus.. weird. I've had plenty
of squid and other mullosks.

--
Dan

Hello, Dan!
You wrote on Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:39:13 -0400:

DL Ken Blake wrote:
?? barry wrote:
??
?? On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:01:19 GMT, "Musashi"
?? wrote:
??
?? Also, with regard to your comment, I've never had
?? octopus in Chinese cuisine. Although I don't doubt it
?? exists particularly in seafood oriented areas and I
?? would wager that it is tasty, as is most Chinese dishes.
?? M
??
?? speaking as someone whose father is a chinese immigrant
?? who worked as a chef in a chinese restaurant for decades,
?? the cooked octopus my father has prepared is tasty and
?? quite tender when prepared properly.
??
?? I love octopus and I love Chinese food. As I said in
?? another message in this thread, I've never had octopus
?? either in China or in Chinese restaurants in the US, but I
?? would jump at the chance to have some if I saw it.

DL I don't think I've ever had Chinese cooked octopus..
DL weird. I've had plenty of squid and other mullosks.

I have had a *very* mild Chinese curry involving baby squid with
vegetables. At least I think it was squid: about 2 inches long
and it was rather good even if an Indian would have sneered at
the lack of heat!

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

Dan Logcher wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
barry wrote:


On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:01:19 GMT, "Musashi"
wrote:


Also, with regard to your comment, I've never had octopus in
Chinese cuisine. Although I don't doubt it exists
particularly in seafood oriented areas and I would wager that it is
tasty, as is most Chinese dishes.
M

speaking as someone whose father is a chinese immigrant who worked
as a chef in a chinese restaurant for decades, the cooked octopus my
father has prepared is tasty and quite tender when prepared
properly.



I love octopus and I love Chinese food. As I said in another message
in this thread, I've never had octopus either in China or in Chinese
restaurants in the US, but I would jump at the chance to have some
if I saw it.

I don't think I've ever had Chinese cooked octopus.. weird. I've
had plenty of squid and other mullosks.


Me too. Squid is common in Chinese restaurants, at least in the US. But
octopus isn't, apparently. I don't know why. I can't imagine that the
Chinese, who eat everything, refrain from eating octopus.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ken Blake wrote:

Dan Logcher wrote:


Ken Blake wrote:

barry wrote:



On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:01:19 GMT, "Musashi"
wrote:



Also, with regard to your comment, I've never had octopus in
Chinese cuisine. Although I don't doubt it exists
particularly in seafood oriented areas and I would wager that it is
tasty, as is most Chinese dishes.
M

speaking as someone whose father is a chinese immigrant who worked
as a chef in a chinese restaurant for decades, the cooked octopus my
father has prepared is tasty and quite tender when prepared
properly.



I love octopus and I love Chinese food. As I said in another message
in this thread, I've never had octopus either in China or in Chinese
restaurants in the US, but I would jump at the chance to have some
if I saw it.

I don't think I've ever had Chinese cooked octopus.. weird. I've
had plenty of squid and other mullosks.



Me too. Squid is common in Chinese restaurants, at least in the US. But
octopus isn't, apparently. I don't know why. I can't imagine that the
Chinese, who eat everything, refrain from eating octopus.

Unless they ate them all

--
Dan

While I find that article very informative and interesting, I find your
comment strange


--- I won't argue with you about that, M, sure my comment was sort of
silly, just reflected my own very limited personal experiences such as
they are, that's all.



considering
how long Octopus has been eaten in Japan, and the fact that apart from
Americans of mediterranean
background, the first time many American taste octopus for the first time in
their lives is often in a sushi bar.



--- Octopus in sushi bars always tastes rubbery and tasteless to me,
even in the best places. Other people seem to like it, I don't.




The the medierranean countries have a very different approach to preparing
Octopus from Japanese. I've had
Octopus in Italian, Greek, Spanish and Portuese cooking, with my personal
"most tender" octopus having
been Portugese. Literally melt in your mouth tender.



--- Yup, I like Mediterranean-style slow cooked tender flavorful
spiced-up octopus.




But Octopus in Japanese cuisine isn't suppose to be like that. It's supposed
to have a firm texture and
be flavorful. Raw Octopus Sashimi for obvious reasons is more tender than
any Octopus cooked anywhere in the world.



--- But the o. in sushi bars is almost always cooked (and rubberized).
Why is that, some health reason? I don't know what it tastes like
really raw (or if I ever even had it really raw for that
matter...probably tastes like rubber! )


Also, with regard to your comment, I've never had octopus in Chinese
cuisine. Although I don't doubt it exists
particularly in seafood oriented areas and I would wager that it is tasty,
as is most Chinese dishes.


--- I've had it a couple of times, on one infamous occasion in a
rather fancy place on Long Island, NY. I remember that time because we
were gonna try to bounce the stuff on the floor!

--- You can just google up Chinese stir-fried octopus or some such and
get a lot of hits...here's one place that seems to know how to do it
right..."fork tender" it says:

http://honghuafinedining.com/hhr/Rev...Year_inuse.htm


--- ww