I am looking for a recipe for a batard whole wheat loaf that is mainly
or completely whole wheat. Ideally the loaf will be light, airy with
a hard crust.

My starter that I use is Carl's and grows on 100% whole wheat. Any
hints, helps, or suggestions will be welcomed.

On 2006-01-19, Bob K wrote:
I am looking for a recipe for a batard whole wheat loaf that is mainly
or completely whole wheat. Ideally the loaf will be light, airy with
a hard crust.

My starter that I use is Carl's and grows on 100% whole wheat. Any
hints, helps, or suggestions will be welcomed.

I bake almost exclusively with whole grains. There are a couple of
key differences. First is hydration -- you must use more water than
with white flour. 70% is not an unreasonable starting point -- it
will create a soft but manageable dough. Even higher is also good.
Next most important is that whole grains require more work in order to
develop gluten adequately for a good rise. I find that a rest period
of 15-45 minutes after mixing but before serious kneading is extremely
helpful, both for gluten development and to allow the bran to absorb
water and make the dough more manageable. I knead 100% whole wheat
doughs for 10-15 minutes in my stand mixer (first speed 1, then 2,
then sometimes 3 according to what I feel the dough needs) after the
rest period, usually with another 5-minute rest halfway through
kneading. I have never tried stretch and fold with a 100% whole-grain
dough, but it might work. (My strategy with doughs containing 20% or
more rye is different, but 100% whole wheat can handle a lot of
kneading.) The changes in the dough when the gluten is fully
developed are pretty much just like in white dough, except you should
not expect to be able to stretch a windowpane quite as thinly before
it tears. However, you should be able to stretch it thinly enough to
let light through, and then it will look essentially like white dough
with flecks of bran suspended in it.

Another minor point is to use slightly lower oven temperatures and
longer baking time, as bran takes on awful flavors if it chars. The
bread is done at a lower internal temperature than white bread, in my
opinion -- if you bake it to 205F internal (the usual recommendation
for lean white doughs), it will be dry and coarse inside. I take it
out as soon as it reaches 175F, and count on the fact that the
temperature will continue to rise by a good 10F after it's out of the
oven. Also use plenty of steam in the oven if you want that crisp crust.

Finally, you will find that whole grain doughs love a little
enrichment. Lean doughs (flour, water, salt, starter) work, but the
texture is a little dry and coarse. A little oil (3% or so) helps a
lot with the texture. Dairy is even better -- 10% milk powder is not
too much, but even a little bit will help. Sweetener also moistens
and balances the strong wheat flavors - honey and barley malt syrup
are good choices. I usually use at least one of the above in any 100%
whole grain dough, but rarely all three (sweetener is redundant with
dairy IMO). If you do a completely lean dough, stick with a long,
cool fermentation, and use whole hard white wheat flour if you can
find it. (King Arthur produces some. I grind my own.) In fact, long
cool fermentation is very good even for enriched doughs. (The final
proof can be a bit warmer, which will increase volume a bit.)

Use very fresh flour, and store it airtight in the refrigerator or
freezer. It will last less than a month at room temperature. If you
are going to bake whole-grain often and want it to be the best it can
be, invest in a grain mill and grind it yourself, unless you live near
a mill and can buy from them directly.

The best book I've found on whole-grain baking is the Laurel's Kitchen
Bread Book, which tells you most (all?) of the above and more. All
recipes are in both volume and weight measures, and it even has a
chapter on sourdough (which she calls "desem").

If you want to include chunky grains (wheat berries, oat groats,
millet, etc.), give them a 24-hour soak in cold water before mixing
the dough, then drain them and use the soak water to mix the dough.
(Cracked grains can be used with shorter soaks -- as little as 6 hours
probably, depending on the grain.) Add the grains in only after the
gluten has developed fully -- I usually blend them in by hand to avoid
tearing the gluten too much. This is also when I add seeds
(e.g. sunflower seeds -- most seeds do not require soaking). Adding
any of this chunky stuff will weigh the dough down a bit and make it a
little denser, but still delicious.

Lastly, do not expect 100% whole grain to be quite as airy as a very
light white bread, but there is no reason for it to be brick-like.
Most whole-grain bricks are the result of too little water and too
little kneading.

Personally, I believe that whole grain and sourdough were simply meant
to go together. It's a shame that when most people (in the US, at
least) think of sourdough, they think of fluffy white bread. I have
often seen stares of confusion when I tell people that I bake whole
grain sourdough bread -- they just don't believe that such a thing
exists. (These people also usually have no clue what "sourdough"
actually means.)

--
Randall

That is great information.

I have been soaking my whole wheat overnight with a cup of starter and
water and it takes much less time to knead the final dough the next
day. I have attempted to reduce the water so I would not have to
continue to add additional flour while kneading, but I will try keeping
the dough more hydrated anyway and see if it turns out better with
extended kneading times. I have been adding bread flour to the final
dough just to make it light, but I think I will take your advice and
just knead for a much longer period of time and try only ww flour.

The only thing I find is that starter fed with ww flour it just too
sour for me. But just soaking ww flour overnight does not give the
bread as sour of a flavor. The difficult part is soaking ALL of the
flour in the recipe without having to add more flour the next day so
the dough will come together correctly. I guess I could make the
dough and refrigerate it until I am ready for it to rise and bake.

I do put powdered milk, oil, salt, and cane sugar in my dough and it
really does help with flavor.


John

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 01:34:46 GMT, Randall Nortman
wrote:

On 2006-01-19, Bob K wrote:
I am looking for a recipe for a batard whole wheat loaf that is mainly
or completely whole wheat. Ideally the loaf will be light, airy with
a hard crust.

My starter that I use is Carl's and grows on 100% whole wheat. Any
hints, helps, or suggestions will be welcomed.

I bake almost exclusively with whole grains. There are a couple of
key differences. First is hydration -- you must use more water than
with white flour. 70% is not an unreasonable starting point -- it
will create a soft but manageable dough. Even higher is also good.
Next most important is that whole grains require more work in order to
develop gluten adequately for a good rise. I find that a rest period
of 15-45 minutes after mixing but before serious kneading is extremely
helpful, both for gluten development and to allow the bran to absorb
water and make the dough more manageable. I knead 100% whole wheat
doughs for 10-15 minutes in my stand mixer (first speed 1, then 2,
then sometimes 3 according to what I feel the dough needs) after the
rest period, usually with another 5-minute rest halfway through
kneading. I have never tried stretch and fold with a 100% whole-grain
dough, but it might work. (My strategy with doughs containing 20% or
more rye is different, but 100% whole wheat can handle a lot of
kneading.) The changes in the dough when the gluten is fully
developed are pretty much just like in white dough, except you should
not expect to be able to stretch a windowpane quite as thinly before
it tears. However, you should be able to stretch it thinly enough to
let light through, and then it will look essentially like white dough
with flecks of bran suspended in it.

Another minor point is to use slightly lower oven temperatures and
longer baking time, as bran takes on awful flavors if it chars. The
bread is done at a lower internal temperature than white bread, in my
opinion -- if you bake it to 205F internal (the usual recommendation
for lean white doughs), it will be dry and coarse inside. I take it
out as soon as it reaches 175F, and count on the fact that the
temperature will continue to rise by a good 10F after it's out of the
oven. Also use plenty of steam in the oven if you want that crisp crust.

Finally, you will find that whole grain doughs love a little
enrichment. Lean doughs (flour, water, salt, starter) work, but the
texture is a little dry and coarse. A little oil (3% or so) helps a
lot with the texture. Dairy is even better -- 10% milk powder is not
too much, but even a little bit will help. Sweetener also moistens
and balances the strong wheat flavors - honey and barley malt syrup
are good choices. I usually use at least one of the above in any 100%
whole grain dough, but rarely all three (sweetener is redundant with
dairy IMO). If you do a completely lean dough, stick with a long,
cool fermentation, and use whole hard white wheat flour if you can
find it. (King Arthur produces some. I grind my own.) In fact, long
cool fermentation is very good even for enriched doughs. (The final
proof can be a bit warmer, which will increase volume a bit.)

Use very fresh flour, and store it airtight in the refrigerator or
freezer. It will last less than a month at room temperature. If you
are going to bake whole-grain often and want it to be the best it can
be, invest in a grain mill and grind it yourself, unless you live near
a mill and can buy from them directly.

The best book I've found on whole-grain baking is the Laurel's Kitchen
Bread Book, which tells you most (all?) of the above and more. All
recipes are in both volume and weight measures, and it even has a
chapter on sourdough (which she calls "desem").

If you want to include chunky grains (wheat berries, oat groats,
millet, etc.), give them a 24-hour soak in cold water before mixing
the dough, then drain them and use the soak water to mix the dough.
(Cracked grains can be used with shorter soaks -- as little as 6 hours
probably, depending on the grain.) Add the grains in only after the
gluten has developed fully -- I usually blend them in by hand to avoid
tearing the gluten too much. This is also when I add seeds
(e.g. sunflower seeds -- most seeds do not require soaking). Adding
any of this chunky stuff will weigh the dough down a bit and make it a
little denser, but still delicious.

Lastly, do not expect 100% whole grain to be quite as airy as a very
light white bread, but there is no reason for it to be brick-like.
Most whole-grain bricks are the result of too little water and too
little kneading.

Personally, I believe that whole grain and sourdough were simply meant
to go together. It's a shame that when most people (in the US, at
least) think of sourdough, they think of fluffy white bread. I have
often seen stares of confusion when I tell people that I bake whole
grain sourdough bread -- they just don't believe that such a thing
exists. (These people also usually have no clue what "sourdough"
actually means.)
Many thanks, I will be getting the book you mentioned from the library
tomorrow.

Bob,

I would recommend Laurel's bread book also. I haven't tried her sourdough's
yet. But if they do anything like her Loaf to Learn recipe, they will be
great.

Another suggestion is to try Wheat Montana whole wheat flour. It is quite
high in gluten. And it makes awesome, light loaves of 100% whole wheat
bread.

Gordon in SW IN

"Bob K" wrote in message
...
I am looking for a recipe for a batard whole wheat loaf that is mainly
or completely whole wheat. Ideally the loaf will be light, airy with
a hard crust.

My starter that I use is Carl's and grows on 100% whole wheat. Any
hints, helps, or suggestions will be welcomed.

On 2006-01-19, BigJohn wrote:
That is great information.

I have been soaking my whole wheat overnight with a cup of starter and
water and it takes much less time to knead the final dough the next
day. I have attempted to reduce the water so I would not have to
continue to add additional flour while kneading, but I will try keeping
the dough more hydrated anyway and see if it turns out better with
extended kneading times. I have been adding bread flour to the final
dough just to make it light, but I think I will take your advice and
just knead for a much longer period of time and try only ww flour.

If you're kneading by hand, try using water instead of flour to keep
the dough from sticking. Wet dough does not stick to wet hands. Just
keep a bowl of water next to your kneading area and keep dipping your
hands in it whenever the dough starts to stick. That way, you will
tend to work more water into the dough instead of more flour, and your
bread will be better for it. You might even do this by actually
withholding 1 cup of water from the recipe and putting that measured
amount in the bowl to dip your hands in. Then don't quit kneading
until all the water has been worked in, bit by bit. For maximum
stick-resistance, start by lightly oiling your dry hands all over with
vegetable oil, then wet them and start kneading.

Remember that what starts as a wet, sticky, gooey mass will turn into
something smooth, elastic, and just a bit tacky after kneading.

Also, cold dough is less sticky than warm dough. A little time in the
refrigerator before you knead will help.

The only thing I find is that starter fed with ww flour it just too
sour for me. But just soaking ww flour overnight does not give the
bread as sour of a flavor. The difficult part is soaking ALL of the
flour in the recipe without having to add more flour the next day so
the dough will come together correctly. I guess I could make the
dough and refrigerate it until I am ready for it to rise and bake.

Every starter is a little different, but it is true that whole grain
starters will tend to be more sour thanks to the extra buffering of
the bran. Try feeding the starter with cool (65-70F) water, and feed
with a very high multiplication (low inoculation) -- i.e., quintuple
the starter with every feeding. If you are using a scale for
measuring, this is easy: one part old starter, two parts flour, two
parts water. (Volume measures will be more complicated.) That turns,
for example, 10g old starter into 50g new starter. Then use it while
it is still fresh and active, before it gets too sour.


I do put powdered milk, oil, salt, and cane sugar in my dough and it
really does help with flavor.

Discussing that kind of heresy on this group is likely to get us
stoned, but the fact is that whole-wheat dough just needs a little
something, though I find that just a little oil plus proper technique
is enough. If you look in the Laurel's Kitchen book, you'll see that
she tends to use oil and sweetener (sparingly) in almost every recipe,
and in some recipes she uses quite a lot of dairy -- including things
like cottage cheese and yogurt (which are both worth trying). She
does also have a recipe for lean whole-wheat "French" bread, which is
just flour, water, salt, and yeast. I have made lean whole-wheat
doughs successfully, but I advise using whole hard white wheat (as
opposed to red wheat) in that case, and following Laurel's
recommendation of a slow, cool fermentation. Sourdough makes better
lean whole-wheat doughs than commercial yeast, definitely.

--
Randall