I just ran across a sourdough recipe that called for unchlorinated
water for starter. Now, I've been making bread reasonably successfully
for a decade or two with tap water, and it never occurred to me that
tap water chlorination might be an issue in yeast development. (My
water is thoroughly urban, but doesn't have any chlorinated taste or
smell.)

So, is this concern for real? Just a sanity check. Dechlorination is
easy (just let a tub sit for a day), but I ain't gonna bother if no one
has seen a problem with the stuff. On the other hand, I'll run the
extra mile to make my starter happy if someone has ever noticed that it
makes a difference.

Well, OK, it's right there in the sourdough FAQ. Didn't see it. But
c'mon, is this for real?

Doug Lassiter wrote:
I just ran across a sourdough recipe that called for unchlorinated
water for starter. Now, I've been making bread reasonably successfully
for a decade or two with tap water, and it never occurred to me that
tap water chlorination might be an issue in yeast development. (My
water is thoroughly urban, but doesn't have any chlorinated taste or
smell.)

So, is this concern for real? Just a sanity check. Dechlorination is
easy (just let a tub sit for a day), but I ain't gonna bother if no one
has seen a problem with the stuff. On the other hand, I'll run the
extra mile to make my starter happy if someone has ever noticed that it
makes a difference.

I don't think every urban water system uses the same level of
chlorination. When I lived in Florida, it was so strong you could smell
it and taste it. Here in Atlanta, there is no noticeable trace of it in
the taste of water. And I have made excellent starter with tap water. I
would say if you if you don't taste it or smell it, don't worry about
it.

Doug Lassiter wrote:
has seen a problem with the stuff. On the other hand, I'll run the
extra mile to make my starter happy if someone has ever noticed that it
makes a difference.

I had no luck making a starter until I used non-chlorinated water.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to send" wrote in
message ...

I had no luck making a starter until I used non-chlorinated water.

Your tap water Melinda, can you smell or taste chlorine?

hutchndi

"Doug Lassiter" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just ran across a sourdough recipe that called for unchlorinated
water for starter. Now, I've been making bread reasonably successfully
for a decade or two with tap water, and it never occurred to me that
tap water chlorination might be an issue in yeast development. (My
water is thoroughly urban, but doesn't have any chlorinated taste or
smell.)

So, is this concern for real? Just a sanity check. Dechlorination is
easy (just let a tub sit for a day), but I ain't gonna bother if no one
has seen a problem with the stuff. On the other hand, I'll run the
extra mile to make my starter happy if someone has ever noticed that it
makes a difference.


Where I live the chlorination level varies -- I suspect when the county
*cough* has a little ooopsie then they ramp up the chlorine. There are times
when the smell is so strong it can literally knock you out when you turn the
water on. When we are having 'one of those days/weeks' I will fill a jug of
water and let it sit 24 hours before I use it for bread, coffee and also to
water the plants. Seems to work OK. When I can't smell the chlorine then I
usually use it from the tap. Of course the first few times this happened I
called the water department and they denied all knowledge but promised to
send someone out in a few days or a week to check on it -- uh huh --
miraculously it always recovers right before said water dept dude shows up
:-)

So while this is not very scientific, it seems to work. The one time I did
use the water for bread making during a "hi! I am your water and I am
chlorinated" phase, the bread was disappointing. So who knows ....


Ellen

On 1 Jan 2006, at 13:46, Ellen wrote:

Where I live the chlorination level varies -- I suspect when the
county
*cough* has a little ooopsie then they ramp up the chlorine. There
are times
when the smell is so strong it can literally knock you out when you
turn the
water on. When we are having 'one of those days/weeks' I will fill
a jug of
water and let it sit 24 hours before I use it for bread, coffee and
also to
water the plants. Seems to work OK. When I can't smell the chlorine
then I
usually use it from the tap. Of course the first few times this
happened I
called the water department and they denied all knowledge but
promised to
send someone out in a few days or a week to check on it -- uh huh --
miraculously it always recovers right before said water dept dude
shows up
:-)

So while this is not very scientific, it seems to work. The one
time I did
use the water for bread making during a "hi! I am your water and I am
chlorinated" phase, the bread was disappointing. So who knows ....


Ellen

If you don't want to wait 24 hours you can boil the water you need
for baking and let it cool. Not ideal I know but it saves a lot of
hours.

TG

"TG" wrote in message
news:mailman.1136137682.1232.rec.food.sourdough@ww w.mountainbitwarrior.com...


If you don't want to wait 24 hours you can boil the water you need
for baking and let it cool. Not ideal I know but it saves a lot of
hours.


Nod, nod good point. When we get into the "chlorinated" phases I routinely
keep a jug sitting there with "breathing"water ;-) What is a real nuisance
is heating the water and then standing around waiting til it cools down to
80 deg or whatever I need for the bread. I would feel more friendly towards
the water dept if they just admitted what they were doing.

Ellen

Yes, that all makes sense. I guess the original recipe calls out
nonchlorinated water just ot remind folks that tap water that reeks of
chlorine is no better for yeast than it is for, um, coliform. Not a
blanket statement about chlorination and breadmaking. On the one hand,
you might assume that a little chlorine would eventually disperse, but
once it's in a sponge it's probably not going far. A jug of water will
breathe well, but sponge will not.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:55:30 -0800, Doug Lassiter wrote:

Well, OK, it's right there in the sourdough FAQ. Didn't see it. But c'mon,
is this for real?

I have a starter made with tap water and another made with bottled mineral
water. I cannot notice any difference in their characteristics. The tap
water is weakly chlorinated, medium hard in its mineral content and there
is no obvious smell.

JB

"danube" wrote

I have a starter made with tap water and another made with bottled mineral
water. I cannot notice any difference in their characteristics.



So many people make this statement. So many people from so many different
states, citys and countys with different watersheds requiring different
levels of chlorine to purify the water. My own county's tap water doesnt
smell of chlorine (though I have heard they add at least some), and I use
it just fine, the little guys seem plenty energetic, but a few countys south
I know you can smell chlorine the second you turn the faucet handle, I can
only imagine what that might do for a starter. I think if I could smell it I
would at least let it disapate, that seems to work for everybody.

hutchndi

Well, at home, in San Jose, the tap water kills my starter. Here (at the
moment) in Everett, Washington, the tap water seems to work fine...(and it's
cold and tastes great as well!).

If your water has chloramines (sp?--I'm on the road at the moment, and my
"spel chekur" ain't) letting it sit out won't help. They don't dissipate!

As with most things sourdough related...YMMV...

Dusty


"Doug Lassiter" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just ran across a sourdough recipe that called for unchlorinated
water for starter. Now, I've been making bread reasonably successfully
for a decade or two with tap water, and it never occurred to me that
tap water chlorination might be an issue in yeast development. (My
water is thoroughly urban, but doesn't have any chlorinated taste or
smell.)

So, is this concern for real? Just a sanity check. Dechlorination is
easy (just let a tub sit for a day), but I ain't gonna bother if no one
has seen a problem with the stuff. On the other hand, I'll run the
extra mile to make my starter happy if someone has ever noticed that it
makes a difference.

Well, that is REALLY interesting, and evidently quite correct. Our
water (Central Texas) is chloramine treated (I never knew this ...),
and here's what our utility says about them ...

----------

"Chloramines are weaker disinfectants than chlorine, but are more
stable, thus extending disinfectant benefits throughout a water
utility's distribution system. They are not used as the primary
disinfectant for your water. Chloramines are used for maintaining a
disinfectant residual in the distribution system so that disinfected
drinking water is kept safe. Chloramine can also provide the following
benefits:

* Since chloramines are not as reactive as chlorine with organic
material in water, they produce substantially lower concentrations of
disinfection byproducts in the distribution system. Some disinfection
byproducts, such as the trihalomethanes (THMs) and haloacetic acids
(HAAs), may have adverse health effects at high levels. These
disinfection byproducts are closely regulated by EPA. EPA recently
reduced the allowable Maximum Contaminant Levels for total THMs to 80
ug/L and now limit HAAs to 60 ug/L. The use of chlorine and chloramines
is also regulated by the EPA. We have Maximum Residual Disinfectant
Levels of 4.0 mg/L for both these disinfectants. However, our concern
is not from their toxicity, but to assure adequate control of the
disinfection byproducts.
* Because the chloramine residual is more stable and longer lasting
than free chlorine, it provides better protection against bacterial
regrowth in systems with large storage tanks and dead-end water mains.
* Chloramine, like chlorine, is effective in controlling biofilm,
which is a slime coating in the pipe caused by bacteria. Controlling
biofilms also tends to reduce coliform bacteria concentrations and
biofilm-induced corrosion of pipes.
* Because chloramine does not tend to react with organic compounds,
many systems will experience less incidence of taste and odor
complaints when using chloramine.

Other concerns with chloramines in drinking water

Chloramines, like chlorine, are toxic to fish and amphibians at levels
used for drinking water. Unlike chlorine, chloramines do not rapidly
dissipate on standing. Neither do they dissipate by boiling. Fish
owners must neutralize or remove chloramines from water used in
aquariums or ponds. Treatment products are readily available at
aquarium supply stores. Chloramines react with certain types of rubber
hoses and gaskets, such as those on washing machines and hot water
heaters. Black or greasy particles may appear as these materials
degrade. Replacement materials are commonly available at hardware and
plumber supply stores."

-------

So ... I guess I'm not going to be able to assess this unless I try
some starter with bottled water for comparison. Sheesh. Now, I'm not
looking for trouble here as my bread turns out OK as it is, but one has
to wonder. A little googling now reveals that that the homebrew
community (our colleagues in yeast) is pretty wary of chloramine in tap
water.

hutchndi wrote:

I had no luck making a starter until I used non-chlorinated water.

Your tap water Melinda, can you smell or taste chlorine?

Most of the year I can to some degree or another.

I use an under-the-cabinet water filter that is "supposed" to reduce
chlorine, chloramines, etc. I don't know how good of a job it does but I
have never had problems with my starter using the water from this unit. Our
regular tap water here in southeast Missouri does not smell of chlorine
either.

Denny

--
I can be reached by sending to "my posting name" at that free, Microsoft,
electronic mail service.
"Doug Lassiter" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well, that is REALLY interesting, and evidently quite correct. Our
water (Central Texas) is chloramine treated (I never knew this ...),
and here's what our utility says about them ...