Hello, Everyone--

I was recently turned on to this group by a friend and fellow
sourdough afficionado. What a great collection of posts! I've been
baking bread for a few years but only recently decided to give
sourdough a shot. I really love big European peasant loaves made with
whole wheat and/or rye and I wanted to see if I could try something
similar. I recently produced my first loaf of true sourdough, but not
without incident--a conflagration in my oven. If anyone could offer
some insight I'd greatly appreciate it.

Armed with Peter Reinhart's THE BREADBAKER'S APPRENTICE I followed his
instructions for making a Poilâne style miche. I'd already had a
homemade liquid starter of half-rye/half white going--following
Jeffrey Hamelman's instructions in his book BREAD--so I just plunged
into the recipe.

Everything seemed to go swimmingly. I made the firm starter per
Reinhart's instructions. It rose to double its size in a few hours
(Yay! It actually works!). I stored it overnight in the fridge, then
pulled it out the next morning, cut it into pieces and kneaded the
pieces into a mixture of King Arthur WW and King Arthur AP (the recipe
calls for high-extraction WW, but suggests if you don't have that,
just go with half WW, half white.

This recipe makes a big piece of dough, almost five pounds. I kneaded
it until it passed the windowpane test, then put it into a clear glass
bowl for the bulk fermentation. Over the next four hours its volume
increased to between slightly less than double. At about two hourse I
gave it a fold to degas the dough and increase its strength, a
technique I picked up from Hamelman.

After it finished rising I formed it into a rough ball, let it rest
for about ten minutes, then finished working it into a big boule. I
don't have a banneton large enough to accommodate a loaf that size, so
I let it proof in a large glass bowl lined with an oiled linen towel
sprinkled with rice flour. I live in Massachusetts and our attic is
fridge temperature, so I let the loaf retard overnight in the attic.

The next morning I let the dough rest at room temperature for several
hours while I preheated the oven to 500 degrees. I use a Hearthkit
ceramic insert--think pizza stone on steroids, with sides--in the top
third of my oven.

About ten minutes before baking I unmolded the loaf onto a peel and
scored it like the same loaf depicted on the cover of Reinhart's book.
Then into the oven onto the hot surface of the Hearthkit, along with a
couple of cups of hot water into a sheet pan in the bottom of the
oven. I also used a spray bottle to mist the sides and walls of the
oven.

Within two minutes the loaf burst into flames.

First of all, there was incredible over spring, accompanied by the
immediate formation of large blisters atop the loaf's skin. The
blisters rose VERY FAST (under thirty seconds), and then wham--burst
into flame. The blisters covered about half of the loaf.

I immediately opened the oven door and tried scraping the blisters off
the top of the loaf (hey, there were a couple of days of work at stake
here and I wasn't going to let a little thing like a kitchen fire kill
my loaf). The top of the loaf was black, but I figured I didn't have
anything to lose by continuing to let the loaf bake, so I just
finished the loaf according to R's instructions--lowering the
temperature to 450 for 25 minutes, then decreasing to 425 for the last
40 minutes. The loaf was delicious (although who can be objective
about this sort of thing), certainly for a first attempt--and aside
from the surface-of-the-moon affect on a portion of the crust, looked
quite good ("Just call it 'rustica,'" my wife said.) I'm not quite
sure how to describe the crumb--lots of small variable holes with a
few larger one thrown in once in awhile--not at all dense.

I'd like to try again, but minus the pyrotechnics. Does anyone have
any thoughts?

The only thing that occurs to me is that because I proofed it in a
glass bowl, which obviously can't breathe, instead of a banneton, the
raw loaf had a larger than usual dose of ethanol fumes trapped in the
dough.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Ken Rivard

I suppose it's obvious, but remove the "spam" from my address to
reply. Thanks.

Ken Rivard

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:51:51 -0500, Ken Rivard
wrote:

Hello, Everyone--

I was recently turned on to this group by a friend and fellow
sourdough afficionado. What a great collection of posts! I've been
baking bread for a few years but only recently decided to give
sourdough a shot. I really love big European peasant loaves made with
whole wheat and/or rye and I wanted to see if I could try something
similar. I recently produced my first loaf of true sourdough, but not
without incident--a conflagration in my oven. If anyone could offer
some insight I'd greatly appreciate it.

Armed with Peter Reinhart's THE BREADBAKER'S APPRENTICE I followed his
instructions for making a Poilâne style miche. I'd already had a
homemade liquid starter of half-rye/half white going--following
Jeffrey Hamelman's instructions in his book BREAD--so I just plunged
into the recipe.

Everything seemed to go swimmingly. I made the firm starter per
Reinhart's instructions. It rose to double its size in a few hours
(Yay! It actually works!). I stored it overnight in the fridge, then
pulled it out the next morning, cut it into pieces and kneaded the
pieces into a mixture of King Arthur WW and King Arthur AP (the recipe
calls for high-extraction WW, but suggests if you don't have that,
just go with half WW, half white.

This recipe makes a big piece of dough, almost five pounds. I kneaded
it until it passed the windowpane test, then put it into a clear glass
bowl for the bulk fermentation. Over the next four hours its volume
increased to between slightly less than double. At about two hourse I
gave it a fold to degas the dough and increase its strength, a
technique I picked up from Hamelman.

After it finished rising I formed it into a rough ball, let it rest
for about ten minutes, then finished working it into a big boule. I
don't have a banneton large enough to accommodate a loaf that size, so
I let it proof in a large glass bowl lined with an oiled linen towel
sprinkled with rice flour. I live in Massachusetts and our attic is
fridge temperature, so I let the loaf retard overnight in the attic.

The next morning I let the dough rest at room temperature for several
hours while I preheated the oven to 500 degrees. I use a Hearthkit
ceramic insert--think pizza stone on steroids, with sides--in the top
third of my oven.

About ten minutes before baking I unmolded the loaf onto a peel and
scored it like the same loaf depicted on the cover of Reinhart's book.
Then into the oven onto the hot surface of the Hearthkit, along with a
couple of cups of hot water into a sheet pan in the bottom of the
oven. I also used a spray bottle to mist the sides and walls of the
oven.

Within two minutes the loaf burst into flames.

First of all, there was incredible over spring, accompanied by the
immediate formation of large blisters atop the loaf's skin. The
blisters rose VERY FAST (under thirty seconds), and then wham--burst
into flame. The blisters covered about half of the loaf.

I immediately opened the oven door and tried scraping the blisters off
the top of the loaf (hey, there were a couple of days of work at stake
here and I wasn't going to let a little thing like a kitchen fire kill
my loaf). The top of the loaf was black, but I figured I didn't have
anything to lose by continuing to let the loaf bake, so I just
finished the loaf according to R's instructions--lowering the
temperature to 450 for 25 minutes, then decreasing to 425 for the last
40 minutes. The loaf was delicious (although who can be objective
about this sort of thing), certainly for a first attempt--and aside
from the surface-of-the-moon affect on a portion of the crust, looked
quite good ("Just call it 'rustica,'" my wife said.) I'm not quite
sure how to describe the crumb--lots of small variable holes with a
few larger one thrown in once in awhile--not at all dense.

I'd like to try again, but minus the pyrotechnics. Does anyone have
any thoughts?

The only thing that occurs to me is that because I proofed it in a
glass bowl, which obviously can't breathe, instead of a banneton, the
raw loaf had a larger than usual dose of ethanol fumes trapped in the
dough.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Ken Rivard

Wow! Now that's a story I've not heard before...(:-o)! My
condolences on your misfortune, Ken, and glad to hear you're okay
and your house isn't a pile of cinders...

I've baked a loaf or two, and can't imagine what could have caused
that. Fuel+Ignition-source (Heat)+Oxygen = FIRE. Oxygen is easy.
Unless you live in a bottle, you'll have that. Bread dough _will_
burn, but it isn't that good a fuel at the typical hydration used in
dough--certainly not in a few seconds. That leaves heat. Did you
use an oven-thermometer to check the temperature inside the oven?

Or, is your starter so good and active that it made a high level of
flammables, such as alcohol? Did your "nose" give you any clues?

All the best my friend,
Dusty


"Ken Rivard" wrote in message
...
Hello, Everyone--

I was recently turned on to this group by a friend and fellow
sourdough afficionado. What a great collection of posts! I've
been
baking bread for a few years but only recently decided to give
sourdough a shot. I really love big European peasant loaves made
with
whole wheat and/or rye and I wanted to see if I could try
something
similar. I recently produced my first loaf of true sourdough, but
not
without incident--a conflagration in my oven. If anyone could
offer
some insight I'd greatly appreciate it.
....

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 10:55:50 -0800, "Dusty Bleher"
wrote:

The Hearthkit has a thermometer which slides between one of the side
pieces and the base--and it read 500 degrees. The oven was set for
550, because I knew I'd lose some heat when I put the loaf in the
oven, and opened the door for steaming.

There's always a faint alcohol smell to my starters, especially when
they're really foaming up, so my theory is still flammable gas in the
loaf until I can figure out something better. I'm ordering a large
banneton pronto just to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the sympathy.

Ken

Wow! Now that's a story I've not heard before...(:-o)! My
condolences on your misfortune, Ken, and glad to hear you're okay
and your house isn't a pile of cinders...

I've baked a loaf or two, and can't imagine what could have caused
that. Fuel+Ignition-source (Heat)+Oxygen = FIRE. Oxygen is easy.
Unless you live in a bottle, you'll have that. Bread dough _will_
burn, but it isn't that good a fuel at the typical hydration used in
dough--certainly not in a few seconds. That leaves heat. Did you
use an oven-thermometer to check the temperature inside the oven?

Or, is your starter so good and active that it made a high level of
flammables, such as alcohol? Did your "nose" give you any clues?

All the best my friend,
Dusty


"Ken Rivard" wrote in message
.. .
Hello, Everyone--

I was recently turned on to this group by a friend and fellow
sourdough afficionado. What a great collection of posts! I've
been
baking bread for a few years but only recently decided to give
sourdough a shot. I really love big European peasant loaves made
with
whole wheat and/or rye and I wanted to see if I could try
something
similar. I recently produced my first loaf of true sourdough, but
not
without incident--a conflagration in my oven. If anyone could
offer
some insight I'd greatly appreciate it.
...

ames? COOL. Can this be accomplished on a regular basis? I am
in the process of setting up a live feed DOUGHCAM on a website, and that
would certainly be more interesting (to some) than a seemingly inanimate
lump of dough in my banneton.

hutchndi


"Ken Rivard" wrote in message
...
Hello, Everyone--

The
blisters rose VERY FAST (under thirty seconds), and then wham--burst
into flame.

Ken Rivard wrote:

...Within two minutes the loaf burst into flames...

...I'd like to try again, but minus the pyrotechnics. Does anyone have
any thoughts?



Have you done anything that might irritate the Bread Faeries or create
bad Karma in your kitchen?

Regards,

Charles

Tell you what, next time I'll see if I can get a video clip...


On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:19:45 -0500, "hutchndi"
wrote:

ames? COOL. Can this be accomplished on a regular basis? I am
in the process of setting up a live feed DOUGHCAM on a website, and that
would certainly be more interesting (to some) than a seemingly inanimate
lump of dough in my banneton.

hutchndi


"Ken Rivard" wrote in message
.. .
Hello, Everyone--

The
blisters rose VERY FAST (under thirty seconds), and then wham--burst
into flame.

Ah-ha... the implacable bread faeries... supposed to leave a
sprinkling of spelt flour on the counter at night, am I?

Ken

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 20:01:24 GMT, Charles Perry
wrote:

Ken Rivard wrote:

...Within two minutes the loaf burst into flames...

...I'd like to try again, but minus the pyrotechnics. Does anyone have
any thoughts?



Have you done anything that might irritate the Bread Faeries or create
bad Karma in your kitchen?

Regards,

Charles

Okay, so here are some pix of the aftermath--first the unbaked loaf,
then the scorched loaf with blisters scraped off, then the crumb.

Ken Rivard

Ken Rivard wrote:

Okay, so here are some pix of the aftermath--first the unbaked loaf,
then the scorched loaf with blisters scraped off, then the crumb.

??

You need to post the pics to the web or to one of the binaries
groups...and give a link. rfs isn't a binary group and for most news
readers the pics will be removed by the news server someone uses.

For more info on posting pics in non-binary groups, check out
news.newusers.questions. Here's a hyperlink to over the
news:news.newusers.questions

B/

Thanks. I didn't realize that and wondered why I couldn't post the
pics.

Ken

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:42:47 -0800, Brian Mailman
wrote:

Ken Rivard wrote:

Okay, so here are some pix of the aftermath--first the unbaked loaf,
then the scorched loaf with blisters scraped off, then the crumb.

??

You need to post the pics to the web or to one of the binaries
groups...and give a link. rfs isn't a binary group and for most news
readers the pics will be removed by the news server someone uses.

For more info on posting pics in non-binary groups, check out
news.newusers.questions. Here's a hyperlink to over the
news:news.newusers.questions

B/

Ken Rivard wrote:
Okay, so here are some pix of the aftermath--first the unbaked loaf,
then the scorched loaf with blisters scraped off, then the crumb.

Ken Rivard

Well, so now you know that you can't post pictures to a non-binary
newsgroup!

My thought on the flaming loaf is that it sounds like a serious case of
blistering crust. With large, very thin walled bubbles, the tissue of
crust might well reach the flashpoint in a 550F oven.

Dave

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 04:54:35 GMT, Dave Bell
wrote:

Ken Rivard wrote:
Okay, so here are some pix of the aftermath--first the unbaked loaf,
then the scorched loaf with blisters scraped off, then the crumb.

Ken Rivard

Well, so now you know that you can't post pictures to a non-binary
newsgroup!

My thought on the flaming loaf is that it sounds like a serious case of
blistering crust. With large, very thin walled bubbles, the tissue of
crust might well reach the flashpoint in a 550F oven.

Dave

Hi all,

With apologies in advance, I think we can agree that Ken is
a "flaming genius" g

That out of the way, the ignition point of ethyl alcohol is
793F. I have no idea the flash point of such very thin
layers of dough, but (though I could be wrong), would expect
it to be quite a bit higher. I say that because, for
example, parchment paper does not flash when heated to 600F
in my oven.

At least for me, the mystery remains...

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Well, so now you know that you can't post pictures to a non-binary
newsgroup!

....learning the hard way. If you do want to see the pics, go to
alt.binaries.food.

My thought on the flaming loaf is that it sounds like a serious case of
blistering crust. With large, very thin walled bubbles, the tissue of
crust might well reach the flashpoint in a 550F oven.

What I can't figure out is why this hasn't happened with any of my
other large non-sourdough loaves, the ones I make with just a yeasted
poolish or preferment, for example.

I've ordered a large banneton, which I'll use to proof my next large
sourdough loaf, just to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for your input.

Ken

That out of the way, the ignition point of ethyl alcohol is
793F. I have no idea the flash point of such very thin
layers of dough, but (though I could be wrong), would expect
it to be quite a bit higher. I say that because, for
example, parchment paper does not flash when heated to 600F
in my oven.

I seems possible to me that perhaps the temperature within the top
couple of inches of the oven roof might be higher than the rest of the
oven, but that's just speculation on my part.

I'll let you know what happens after I repeat the loaf, using a
banneton during proofing.

Thanks for the comments.

Ken