"Gordon Hayes" wrote in message
. ..
....
Back to the beans.

They are like dough. The flavor will develop and mature if you give
them
time. A two or three day cool soak before cooking works wonders.

Okay. I'm soaking 'em, Will. So, which is it? Two days or three?
What's
the diff? Also, do they cook any different (read: faster)?
2-days, 3-days? Well, the hot temperatures we've been experiencing this
last week or so kinda set the schedule for me. After just a bit more than
24-hours sitting in my kitchen, I noticed that the beans had started to
begin to bubble and ferment. I didn't want to take a chance of letting
something this low-acid "work", so I rinsed the soak water and cooked 'em
with my regular recipe.

Looks like I'm gonna hafta wait for some cooler weather to try this again.
In the mean time, I've got lots of beans...(:-o)!

....
Faster cooking was probably one of the main reasons our ancestors soaked
their beans before cooking. It soes allow them to cook in a shorter time.
Therefore, less firewood.
Well, at least in this somewhat abbreviated soak test, the cooking time did
seem to be shortened by about 20-min. Not bad for 1-day of soaking.

But another benefit of soaking the beans is that the phytic acid is
disipated (sp?). This means that the nutrients in the beans are more
readily
Can't speak to that. All I know is that the bubbling was startin' ta give
me that feelin' that I should be doin' something...(:-o)!

Dusty
San Jose

The Village Baker that
porridge-based methods are the oldest. These are direct rather than
cyclic; no doubt the organisms involved will probably be similar to
sourdough, but so is brewer's yeast.
By modern standards
I don't think that brewers yeast is similar to the wild yeasts in
sourdough
Yes they are classified under the prefix saccharomyces...but its more
than that....
...if you look at a text in yeast technology..they have their unique
differences....
Brewers yeast if its top fermenting ( for ale production) is called
saccharmyces cereviseae( related to modern baker's yeast); while the
bottom fermenting( lager manufacture) is the saccharomyces uvarum.(
that is not suited to baking use as its very slow).
Meanwhile the popular yeast present in sourdough is saccharomyces
exiguus ....
Another difference,,, they exhibit their own fermentative
peculiarity....
The brewers yeast are omnivorous with respect to the carbohydrates they
utilize ( it can ferment a wide range of sugars ranging from hexoses to
pentoses, monosaccharides to disaccharides. On the other hand the S.
exiiguus cannot even digest maltose which is widely used by the
aforementioned beverage yeast.
Another point of difference...brewers yeast require a selective culture
while true sourdough yeasts throughout the world can encompass in
addition to S exiguus, a number of other yeasts aside from S.
cereviseae such as candida,, hansenula debaryomyces ,,pichia and
toruluspura species
These other yeast are considered spoilage yeasts or microbial
contaminants in brewing process
On the other hand
The beer of ancient times may be not as good ( contains plenty of
microbial contaminants) as they still don't have the microbiological
knowledge and skill that modern brewery man had.
I think that is sensible to relate sourdough yeast to ancient
brewers yeast I suppose that they first alcoholic beverage might be the
hooch that results from sourdough preparation.( the forerunner of
beer).
And not from intentional preparation of such alcoholic beverage; rather
an outgrowth from such baking method.
Therefore I can conclude with certainty that bread comes ahead of
alcoholic beverages.

By the way, weren't alcoholic beverages drunk for health reasons? Even
today, drinking water is dangerous in much of the world

Prehistoric people don't have the understanding of health
consciousness .
IMO whenever they are thirsty they drank anything they believe can
slake their thirst. (Immediately). That is one of the major reasons (I
suppose) that they have short life span.due to quaffing pathogen
contaminated beverages( .i.e any available water in ponds, lakes,
streams and possibly including some home brewsgrin.
Roy

Roy wrote:

Therefore I can conclude with certainty that bread comes ahead of
alcoholic beverages.

Though I don't follow your logic to the point of "certainty" anyway,
this was not the point in question. It was whether non-sourdough
leavening comes ahead of commercial baker's yeast. 2000 BC versus 19th
century would suggest that it does.

Greg

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It was whether non-sourdough
leavening comes ahead of commercial baker's yeast. 2000 BC versus 19th
century would suggest that it does.

Indeed.... sourdough leavening comes ahead of bakers yeast ( which is a
modern invention) the outgrowth of the brewing industry.

BTW..
I am not sure what you mean by non sourdough leavenig.... it is by
physical or chemical means ?
If its still related to fermenation then its still microbial in origin
and we can relate that to sourdough.
Roy

SD tortillas are great. But maybe I'm missunderstanding tortilla, I add
sourdough just for extra flavour when I have some spare.

180g of water
300g flour + more for mixing and rolling
7g salt
14g oil ( optional)

(optional 100g starter if usning starte add a tad less water. 165g or
so.)

I'm sure you know the rest.

Jim

Dusty Bleher wrote:
G'day all;

I'm pretty sure that tortillas weren't invented less than a hundred years
ago, and I'm pretty sure that they didn't start out being made with baking
powder.

So-o-o I'm presuming that they were originally made with sourdough somewhere
in the preceding years. I've hunted all around, and can't find anything to
support that assertion. Anybody ever done a SD tortilla? If so, care to
share the recipe? Otherwise I'm gonna hafta start from scratch and invent
one...(:-o)!


TIA,
Dusty

Me too.

Dead easy.

Jim

I've seen loads of recipes for sourdough starters using bakers yeast.
That doesn't mean they're right. But what do I know.

Jim

OK, I'll add a bit more, set the dough aside after mixing for about
half an hour. shape into golf ball sized pieces. Heat a pan medium hot.
You'll have to gues I set my dial to six o'clock. lol. Roll firts out
about 5 mil thick, so you can just see through them, then put on the
heat. Roll the next keeping an eye on the pan, If you don't have the
pan hot enough it'll not puff up. You'll have to guess. lol. turn when
browned a bit. If the pan's hot enough they'll puff up like a puffer
fish in about 30 to 40 seconds. Don't roll out too many at once as
they'll stick together or to the work top. It's good to be on the hop
anyway. lol. Cook on each side till done. You might need to wipe the
pan with some paper to get the burnt flour out half way throug.

Good luck.

Jim

Yes, beer was safer than water in many places, especially on ship
voyages. If you check the trivia facts written by the Pilgrims on the
Mayflower, you will find that one of the main considerations for landing
at Plymoth Rock was that they had run out of beer and had to use WATER.
In other places, watered down wine was prefered to unknown water. Even
today in many major cities (yes even Mexico even if politically
incorrect to say so) it is safer to NOT drink from the public water
supply.

Charles


Greg wrote in news:ncTCe.1489$Qi4.233381
@news20.bellglobal.com:

....

By the way, weren't alcoholic beverages drunk for health reasons? Even
today, drinking water is dangerous in much of the world.

Greg

Roy wrote:

I am not sure what you mean by non sourdough leavenig.... it is by
physical or chemical means ?
If its still related to fermenation then its still microbial in origin
and we can relate that to sourdough.

The two examples already mentioned are porridge (scalded flour) and lees
of beer/wine. Of course they are RELATED to sourdough, but isn't using
lees of beer even more closely related to today's commercial yeast?

Greg

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