"Roy" wrote in message
oups.com...
made some last night, using baking powder. But they came out more
yellowish than those that I buy...and didn't have the right taste
Dusty the alkaline reaction of the baking powder with the flour
components produced that yellowish tinge....
Hmmm, interesting. I've made other things with BP and don't recall them
ever looking yellow tinged. My biscuits, for instance, are perfectly
flour-white. And, FWIW; use almost the same formula as the tortilla recipe
that I was using.

Just out of curiosity, that being the case, why don't commercially prepared
tortillas do that as well? Cuz of all of the other "stabilizers" and things
they also add?

At any rate, thanks for the tip. Maybe using Hal's no-BP recipe will take
care of that. If not, there's always my soon-to-be-ready for prime-time SD
tortilla recipe...(:-o)!


Thanks again, Roy,
Dusty

Roy

Hmmm, interesting. I've made other things with BP and don't recall them
ever looking yellow tinged. My biscuits, for instance, are perfectly
flour-white. And, FWIW; use almost the same formula as the tortilla recipe
that I was using.

indeed not all I could have not baked cakes without them.....Some
baking powders that have slight excess sodium bicarbonate to phosphate
ratio tend to exhibit that...it makes the white cake crumb a bit
creamy to yellowish....Even some scones I made with such kind of baking
powder exhibits that creamy yellowish shade.
That is due to alkaline pH
..In cakes to counteract that we add a bit of cream of tartar to
slightly offset the alkalinity and maintain the whiteness...I don't
know if that will work with tortillas.....
But tortillas has baking powder range of 1-1.5 % based on flour, if
you use more that might be the case of affecting dough color as the
tortilla dough is not that acidic .
You also said that it does not taste right meaning its likely you added
more baking powder which contributed to the off taste. And off color.

Just out of curiosity, that being the case, why don't commercially prepared
ortillas do that as well? Cuz of all of the other "stabilizers" and things
they also add?
They are added for a purpose ...Basing from myr reference and examining
its functionality..its no different from the ingredients declaration
of industrial bread I am used tog.
And that is how they do it in large xcale...
Generally institutional wheat tortilla formulations have these
ingredient range( from Technical book written by flat bread authority
Jalal Qarooni(1996) titled "Flat bread technology" ISBN0-412-08111-3
where it displays the ingredient list.but did not explain its function.
Flour 100%
Water 50-54%
Fat 6-14%
Salt 1.3-2%
Baking powder 1-1.5%

Regarding stabilizers they add guar or cellusoe gum to improve
texture;and hydration consistency that varies from flour to flour.
to make sheeting easier they add sodium bisulfite, to relax the
gluten.
Now to counteract the stress of the sheeting and recover gluten
strenght they add SSL(sodum stearoyl lactylate) to make it retain its
shape and stability.
To prolong shelf life they add acidulant and its salts
Sodium/calcium propionate( preservative 0.2% or potassium
sorbate/sorbic acid 0.3%
Now Dusty , does the ingredients I mentioned t sound like what you read
from your LAUNDRY LIST?G.
It is just unfortunate that I prefer the Spanish version of tortillas
.........and frittatas g

BTW.. a sourdough tortilla is more akin to a sourdough raised pita
bread than the mexican influenced delica
Roy

Brian Mailman wrote:
Mike Avery wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

I'd think with sourdough, one would achieve something more like a
pocketless pita.


The pocket in the pita...


...hides the flagon with the dragon...

Ah - another lover of classic cinema!

Dave

Roy wrote:
BTW.. a sourdough tortilla is more akin to a sourdough raised pita
bread than the mexican influenced delica

I heard that somewhere before.... actually, now that I'm thinking about
it, Israeli Boy Scouts are taught to make a flatbread from rolled out
flour and water that's a kind of pocketless pita called a 'taboun' (also
the name of the oven used, although they use grill covers or even
shovels, I'm told).

While I can't find a recipe for it (everyone I've ever asked looks at me
like I've asked for a recipe for "salad" it seems to be that common)
here's a description of it:

http://www.minfo.gov.ps/view_point/e.../03-03-04b.htm

A picture of it being made:

http://www.glue.umd.edu/~mnino/palestine.html

and a recipe using it, the dish described above:

http://www.jmcc.org/ptw/2000/Feb/recipe.htm

B/

"Brian Mailman" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote:
BTW.. a sourdough tortilla is more akin to a sourdough raised pita
bread than the mexican influenced delica

I heard that somewhere before.... actually, now that I'm thinking about
it, Israeli Boy Scouts are taught to make a flatbread from rolled out
flour and water that's a kind of pocketless pita called a 'taboun' (also
the name of the oven used, although they use grill covers or even shovels,
I'm told).

While I can't find a recipe for it (everyone I've ever asked looks at me
like I've asked for a recipe for "salad" it seems to be that common)
here's a description of it:

http://www.minfo.gov.ps/view_point/e.../03-03-04b.htm

A picture of it being made:

http://www.glue.umd.edu/~mnino/palestine.html

and a recipe using it, the dish described above:

http://www.jmcc.org/ptw/2000/Feb/recipe.htm
Yeah. All of these links are certainly interesting, and everything sounds
warm and homey. But NOWHERE have I been able to find a recipe for those
taboun. Doing a Google search on ' "taboun bread" recipe ' yields only
_TWO_ entries; one of which is your link above...the other is using
it...big sigh!

At any rate, the foods they described sound absolutely yummy! I'd love to
wander that countryside and sample some of that fare...


Later all,
Dusty


B/

Dusty Bleher wrote:

"Brian Mailman" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote:
BTW.. a sourdough tortilla is more akin to a sourdough raised pita
bread than the mexican influenced delica

I heard that somewhere before.... actually, now that I'm thinking about
it, Israeli Boy Scouts are taught to make a flatbread from rolled out
flour and water that's a kind of pocketless pita called a 'taboun'...

While I can't find a recipe for it ...

Yeah. ... But NOWHERE have I been able to find a recipe for those
taboun. Doing a Google search on ' "taboun bread" recipe ' yields only
_TWO_ entries; one of which is your link above...the other is using
it...big sigh!

Think I said that... as well as all variations on the orthography since
it's not a Latin alphabet, and I own a mailing list with close to 2,000
members and a couple hundred Israelis and none of them have ever come up
with an exact recipe so I'm not just using google--it's like I said,
everyone knows, there's no need for a recipe. You just do it.

The point is... this is what a sourdough "tortilla" would be, I believe.
Just make a dough, let it sit for a couple hours, roll it out thinly
and "bake" it on a hot surface. Lavosh may be similar.

B/

"Dusty Bleher" wrote in message
...
"Brian Mailman" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote:
BTW.. a sourdough tortilla is more akin to a sourdough raised pita
bread than the mexican influenced delica

I heard that somewhere before.... actually, now that I'm thinking about
it, Israeli Boy Scouts are taught to make a flatbread from rolled out
flour and water that's a kind of pocketless pita called a 'taboun' (also
the name of the oven used, although they use grill covers or even
shovels,
I'm told).


In Maggie Glezer's book "A Blessing of Bread" in the recipe for salouf which
is yemenite flatbread she says: ... similar to an uptopped pizza ... Ora
Amzel demonstrated the shaping technique using virtually the same recipe as
the yeasted pita dough (page 240) but she had stretched the breads rather
than rolling them to make larger, thinner bread with no pocket. The bread
was traditionally baked on the wall of a taboon ...

The baking method she uses is to preheat the oven with the stone in at 550
for an hour. When ready to bake the dough, turn the oven to broil, hand
stretch the dough, toss it onto the stone and broil/bake for 2 minutes until
it bubbles up and looks golden brown in spots. Do not over cook or what you
will get is a cracker not a bread ... while the first one is cooking stretch
the next one. There is also an implication that these stale rapidly and
should be made just prior to serving. It also appears that you can cut or
tear them to serving size and freeze and then reheat without defrosting
prior to serving ..

It would appear that "taboon" refers to the oven and not the breads that are
made in it. There is also a reference in the book to regular pitas being
made in a taboon ...



Ellen

"Brian Mailman" wrote in message
...
....
Yeah. ... But NOWHERE have I been able to find a recipe for those
taboun. Doing a Google search on ' "taboun bread" recipe ' yields only
_TWO_ entries; one of which is your link above...the other is using
it...big sigh!

Think I said that... as well as all variations on the orthography since
Yes. Got the nuance (the first time, even). Understood what you were
saying. But I guess I wuz hopin' that maybe you were just holding out on me
cuz, as you said, it wuz so common...(:-o)!

it's not a Latin alphabet, and I own a mailing list with close to 2,000
members and a couple hundred Israelis and none of them have ever come up
with an exact recipe so I'm not just using google--it's like I said,
everyone knows, there's no need for a recipe. You just do it.
While I believe you, Brian, I'm just hard pressed to grasp that so many
folks make is so easily and often that a recipe isn't needed. That being
the case, can anybody relay it to me? Any hint? Clue? Anything besides
hand-waving and innuendo?

The point is... this is what a sourdough "tortilla" would be, I believe.
Just make a dough, let it sit for a couple hours, roll it out thinly and
"bake" it on a hot surface. Lavosh may be similar.
Yeah. Been through the Lavosh recipes...they either use sugar and/or
yeast...so they're out. I think the SD tortilla path is still the way to
go. And, if not, it's been fun experimenting with the various recipes...


B/

On Saturday, July 9, 2005, at 10:31 AM, Brian Mailman wrote:

Think I said that... as well as all variations on the orthography since
it's not a Latin alphabet, and I own a mailing list with close to 2,000
members and a couple hundred Israelis and none of them have ever come
up
with an exact recipe so I'm not just using google--it's like I said,
everyone knows, there's no need for a recipe. You just do it.

The point is... this is what a sourdough "tortilla" would be, I
believe.
Just make a dough, let it sit for a couple hours, roll it out thinly
and "bake" it on a hot surface. Lavosh may be similar.


Whenever the weather gets hot out here in Wisconsin (it actually does),
I switch over to flatbread. There's nothing special about it. I just
make a wetter dough, 70-72% hydration or so. I still retard it
overnight in the refrigerator, but then roll it quite thin, 1/4" to
3/8" inch, when it warms. Leave the perimeter edges a little thicker so
they don't brown out. I bake on black steel half sheet in 500 F oven
for about 6 or 8 minutes. Use the bottom most position. You need the
maximum radiant energy from the
floor to pop the dough rounds.

The rolling is best done on a silicon mat with a bit of flour to buffer
things. AP flour and scant salt works better since the dough is more
extensible.

An aside... I understand this is a tortilla post, but for what it's
worth, the bread really works well with taboule, hummus, and yogurt
things. We particularly like it for falafels.

Ellen wrote:

It would appear that "taboon" refers to the oven and not the breads that are
made in it.

Depends which culture is doing the referring, I imagine.

B/

Dusty Bleher wrote:

Brian Mailman wrote:

it's not a Latin alphabet, and I own a mailing list with close to 2,000
members and a couple hundred Israelis and none of them have ever come up
with an exact recipe so I'm not just using google--it's like I said,
everyone knows, there's no need for a recipe. You just do it.

While I believe you, Brian, I'm just hard pressed to grasp that so many
folks make is so easily and often that a recipe isn't needed.

I was going to go on about Israeli Salad, but here's one from our own
cultu I haven't seen an *exact* recipe for PB&J sandwiches.

I think Diana Kennedy had to observe *many* tortilla-making sessions in
*many* places from *many* people before she published the recipe in her
book; I believe she observed the commonalities, collated them, then made
an educated guess as to quantities.

The point is... this is what a sourdough "tortilla" would be, I believe.
Just make a dough, let it sit for a couple hours, roll it out thinly and
"bake" it on a hot surface. Lavosh may be similar.

Yeah. Been through the Lavosh recipes...they either use sugar and/or
yeast...so they're out.

Then don't use sugar and convert from commercial yeast to sourdough.

B/

Will wrote:

On Saturday, July 9, 2005, at 10:31 AM, Brian Mailman wrote:


(snip)

I've asked you before either to send by private email OR post
publically, but I don't need the duplicate messages. If you continue,
I'll have to killfile you in my private email and then anything you wish
to send that really is private I won't ever see... Thanks.

B/

Hal Laurent wrote:


The flour tortilla recipe from Diana Kennedy's "The Cuisines of Mexico"
calls for:

1 pound of all-purpose flour
1/4 pound lard or shortening
2 teaspoons salt
1 cup hot water

This is for 24 6-inch tortillas.



Another sighting: the 1997 edition of The Joy of Cooking has a recipe for
flour tortillas with the same ingredients (I didn't check to see if the
proportions are the same).



Since it seems that tortillas are an unleavened bread, there would not
have ever been a sourdough tortilla.

Mike

"Mike Avery" wrote in message
news:mailman.2.1121011599.60465.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...

Since it seems that tortillas are an unleavened bread, there would not
have ever been a sourdough tortilla.

Mike

Actually Mike,

Not all Tortillas are unleavened. Some recipes call for baking powder which
is considered as a chemical leavening agent. GRIN

But for all practical purposes (BFAPP) you are right. We eat a lot of them
during Pesach. Without the baking powder of course.

Gordon

Brian Mailman wrote:

I've asked you before either to send by private email OR post
publically, but I don't need the duplicate messages. If you continue,
I'll have to killfile you in my private email and then anything you wish
to send that really is private I won't ever see... Thanks.


Just so everyone understands what happened here. Brian's ISP
automatically puts his personal addy in the "reply to" line with the
RFS group. I thought I had mistakenly hit the "reply all" button on my
machine instead of "reply". In which case I could say "Golly Brian I am
sorry, I goofed." Because I do hit the "reply all" sometimes and don't
catch myself.

But that was not the case here.

One solution (better than killfile threats and easier than changing
ISP's) is to use a hotmail, gmail or yahoo mail account for list
correspondence if you have this addy situation with your ISP.

Will