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Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

Ovens for proofing and bread baking?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2005, 07:30 AM
[email protected]
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Default Ovens for proofing and bread baking?

after a few years of baking all our breads at home, and now getting
into sourdough breads I've come to realize that standard ovens are
poorly equiped for such activity.

We're about to embark on a major remodel of our home and one of my
presents to myself is going to be an oven specifically for bread.

Unfortunately it seems that most ovens in this category are solely
professional. It's really difficult finding one under 20K :/ This is
definitely out of my price range in several orders of magnitude.

I have come across two oven which seem to fit but I'm curious as to
whether any of you other home-bakers have any suggestions.

The model I really want is made by Gaggenau but it's still pretty
costly. It's a positive pressure steam and convection oven with
misting capabilities. It definitely looks like the ticket. One of the
features it has that I haven't found on any other residential level
oven (which there are only two others) is that it has temperature
settings as low as 70 degrees which enabled it to be used as a proofing
oven. at 70 degrees you can also control the humidity from about 50%
to 100%, which seems like it could really do well as a starter
activator and proofing oven.

The unit is still pretty costly so I'm wondering if anyone out there
has found anything they prefer.

the gaggenau model is the ED220 and you can see it at www.gaggenau.com

-Scott

Ads
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2005, 12:03 PM
Kenneth
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 26 Feb 2005 23:30:05 -0800,
"
wrote:

OVEN SNIP


The unit is still pretty costly so I'm wondering if anyone out there
has found anything they prefer.

the gaggenau model is the ED220 and you can see it at www.gaggenau.com

-Scott


Hi Scott,

I have a pro oven in our home (and love it), but to answer
your question someone would have to have used the Gaggenau
and also something they prefer. I suspect that finding such
a person would be tough.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2005, 01:53 PM
Dick Adams
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Default


"Kenneth" =20
wrote in message ...

I have a pro oven in our home (and love it) ...


But what is it good for Kenneth? When are you
going to show us some of your loaves? Can you
make better looking loaves that Samartha, for=20
instance, shows at http://samartha.net/SD/ ?

(Or is it true, as I suspect, that Mrs. Sole will not
let you use it on account of the excessive heat
and humidity?)

--
DickA






  #4 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2005, 01:53 PM
Dick Adams
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Kenneth" =20
wrote in message ...

I have a pro oven in our home (and love it) ...


But what is it good for Kenneth? When are you
going to show us some of your loaves? Can you
make better looking loaves that Samartha, for=20
instance, shows at http://samartha.net/SD/ ?

(Or is it true, as I suspect, that Mrs. Sole will not
let you use it on account of the excessive heat
and humidity?)

--
DickA






  #5 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2005, 03:08 PM
Steve B
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote in message
oups.com...
The model I really want is made by Gaggenau but it's still pretty
costly. It's a positive pressure steam and convection oven with
misting capabilities. It definitely looks like the ticket.....


I had the opportunity to view the Gaggenau ED220 in person at a major
appliance distributor nearby (Boston). The first thing that caught my
attention was the size of the oven cavity. It was very small by North
American standards (just under one and a half cubic feet). Just large
enough for a single boule. My conclusion... nice idea, but impractical for
my bread baking purposes.

- Steve Brandt


  #6 (permalink)  
Old 27-02-2005, 08:48 PM
Mac
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 23:30:05 -0800,
wrote:

after a few years of baking all our breads at home, and now getting
into sourdough breads I've come to realize that standard ovens are
poorly equiped for such activity.

We're about to embark on a major remodel of our home and one of my
presents to myself is going to be an oven specifically for bread.

Unfortunately it seems that most ovens in this category are solely
professional. It's really difficult finding one under 20K :/ This is
definitely out of my price range in several orders of magnitude.

I have come across two oven which seem to fit but I'm curious as to
whether any of you other home-bakers have any suggestions.

The model I really want is made by Gaggenau but it's still pretty
costly. It's a positive pressure steam and convection oven with
misting capabilities. It definitely looks like the ticket. One of the
features it has that I haven't found on any other residential level
oven (which there are only two others) is that it has temperature
settings as low as 70 degrees which enabled it to be used as a proofing
oven. at 70 degrees you can also control the humidity from about 50%
to 100%, which seems like it could really do well as a starter
activator and proofing oven.

The unit is still pretty costly so I'm wondering if anyone out there
has found anything they prefer.

the gaggenau model is the ED220 and you can see it at
www.gaggenau.com

-Scott


Well, I have a Wolf oven/range. It doesn't have marked thermostat settings
below 150 F, but it still works all the way down to room temperature.
I've been thinking about adding my own marks below 150.

For example, sometimes when I am in a hurry, I let my loaves rise in the
oven. I turn the dial up slowly until I hear the switch click, then I back
off just a touch, and leave it there. If I am not in a hurry, I let the
loaves rise at room temp.

The Wolf also has a convection fan, which I always use whenever I bake
anything at all.

One thing about the Wolf (and probably any other high-BTU gas oven) is
that since it burns a lot of gas in a hurry, it also puts a lot of
humidity and exhaust gas into the kitchen. So a good exhaust fan is
mandatory. After the pre-heat phase is over, it is not so bad, and I
usually turn off the exhaust fan.

The Wolf is still a very expensive oven. If it had been up to me, I would
have bought a kitchen-aid or something, but my wife loves the red knobs on
the Wolf.

--Mac

  #7 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 04:25 PM
[email protected]
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The Wolf and the Viking are top on our list of ranges, along with an
Aga. We've been working with a kitchen designer on this, but I wasn't
aware the wolf would actually work below the 150 mark on the dials. I
had just assumed (of course you know what that makes me ) that 150
being the lowest mark on the oven meant that it was the lowest setting.

I also did manage to finally see the Gaggenau and yes, it's much too
small for anything I do.

The Wolf and Aga ranges are nice, but I think we're leaning more
towards a cooktop and using a seperate set of double ovens mounted in
the cabinets away from the cooking island.

Oh well -- I wish to hell someone made some affordable steam/misting
ovens that worked

-Scott

  #8 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 05:23 PM
Charles Perry
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



" wrote:

Oh well -- I wish to hell someone made some affordable steam/misting
ovens that worked

A while ago, a poster of some knowledge wrote of simulating a
brick oven with an electric wall mount unit. He used a kiln
shelf or home made refractory cement slab for thermal mass and
blocked the oven vent to retain steam given off by the bread.
IIRC he claimed it was better than a Cloche. At least you could
bake a batard in it. With a Cloche you are limited to one boule
at a time. Well, two if you have a double oven and two Cloche.

Ovens that inject steam are just tring to simulate the baking
environment of a brick or earthen oven where the steam is
retained from the baked goods because of limited venting. Mostly
those that have them, swear by them. Those that don't have
varied opinions. I can tell you that it is just like most
everything else. In your quest for perfect anything, the last 10
percent will cost you 90 percent of the total time, money and
effort and you will still miss the mark.

Almost always, only your dog, cat, and humans with trained
tasters will be able to tell the difference. The dog doesn't
care. 95 to 98 percent of the humans don't care. How much are
you will to spend to please yourself and your cat?

Regards,

Charles

--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 05:25 PM
Java Man
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com,
says...
after a few years of baking all our breads at home, and now getting
into sourdough breads I've come to realize that standard ovens are
poorly equiped for such activity.

We're about to embark on a major remodel of our home and one of my
presents to myself is going to be an oven specifically for bread.

Unfortunately it seems that most ovens in this category are solely
professional. It's really difficult finding one under 20K :/ This is
definitely out of my price range in several orders of magnitude.

I have come across two oven which seem to fit but I'm curious as to
whether any of you other home-bakers have any suggestions.

The model I really want is made by Gaggenau but it's still pretty
costly. It's a positive pressure steam and convection oven with
misting capabilities. It definitely looks like the ticket. One of the
features it has that I haven't found on any other residential level
oven (which there are only two others) is that it has temperature
settings as low as 70 degrees which enabled it to be used as a proofing
oven. at 70 degrees you can also control the humidity from about 50%
to 100%, which seems like it could really do well as a starter
activator and proofing oven.

The unit is still pretty costly so I'm wondering if anyone out there
has found anything they prefer.

the gaggenau model is the ED220 and you can see it at
www.gaggenau.com

We were enthused about the Gaggenau until we saw how small it is. We
ended up with a Miele, which can set and hold a proof temperature in 10F
increments. I usually use 80F. Checking with a thermometer shows that
the display in the Miele is very accurate, and it holds the proof
temperature quite well. My only complaints are that it doesn't allow
settings in 1 degree increments, and it doesn't have steam!!!

Maybe someone should invent a small device that moderates humidity in an
oven? :-)

Rick
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 07:59 PM
Dick Adams
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Charles Perry" wrote in message =
...

[ ... ]


In your quest for perfect anything, the last 10 percent will=20
cost you 90 percent of the total time, money and effort=20
and you will still miss the mark.


That is exactly why the frugal, among us, stop at 10%,
sometimes even less.

How much are you will to spend to please yourself and=20
your cat?


Obstinate cat refuses to consider eating bread. (Nevertheless
is unaware of being a carnivore. Well, we quickly dispose of
the packages bearing the ingredient lists.)

What exactly is meant by _proofing_? To prove that your
dough is OK? OK for what?

--=20
Dick Adams
(Sourdough minimalist)
firstname dot lastname at bigfoot dot com
___________________
Sourdough FAQ guide at=20
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html


  #11 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 08:56 PM
Charles Perry
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default





" wrote:

Oh well -- I wish to hell someone made some affordable steam/misting
ovens that worked

I forgot to mention the Hearthkit. It is a ceramic oven insert
that claims to mimic a stone oven. If it works, a Hearthkit in a
GE is a lot cheaper than a Wolf. I am a little leary of the thing
because of all the bread cook book authors that seemingly endorse
the contraption. However, I am still curious, as long as I could
satisfy the curiosity with somebody elses $200. Maybe someone
could buy one and report back the performance. The frugal folk
would appreciate it.

Regards

Charles
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 09:05 PM
Will
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 2/28/05 2:56 PM, "Charles Perry" wrote:

I forgot to mention the Hearthkit. It is a ceramic oven insert
that claims to mimic a stone oven. If it works, a Hearthkit in a
GE is a lot cheaper than a Wolf. I am a little leary of the thing
because of all the bread cook book authors that seemingly endorse
the contraption. However, I am still curious, as long as I could
satisfy the curiosity with somebody elses $200. Maybe someone
could buy one and report back the performance. The frugal folk
would appreciate it.


While we're calling for testers. The fibrement people (link below) say that
2 of their stones, placed top and bottom of oven, work better than a
Hearthkit. A lot less money too.

http://www.bakingstone.com/

Will

  #13 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 09:05 PM
Will
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 2/28/05 2:56 PM, "Charles Perry" wrote:

I forgot to mention the Hearthkit. It is a ceramic oven insert
that claims to mimic a stone oven. If it works, a Hearthkit in a
GE is a lot cheaper than a Wolf. I am a little leary of the thing
because of all the bread cook book authors that seemingly endorse
the contraption. However, I am still curious, as long as I could
satisfy the curiosity with somebody elses $200. Maybe someone
could buy one and report back the performance. The frugal folk
would appreciate it.


While we're calling for testers. The fibrement people (link below) say that
2 of their stones, placed top and bottom of oven, work better than a
Hearthkit. A lot less money too.

http://www.bakingstone.com/

Will

  #14 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 09:23 PM
Kenneth
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:56:39 GMT, Charles Perry
wrote:





" wrote:

Oh well -- I wish to hell someone made some affordable steam/misting
ovens that worked

I forgot to mention the Hearthkit. It is a ceramic oven insert
that claims to mimic a stone oven. If it works, a Hearthkit in a
GE is a lot cheaper than a Wolf. I am a little leary of the thing
because of all the bread cook book authors that seemingly endorse
the contraption. However, I am still curious, as long as I could
satisfy the curiosity with somebody elses $200. Maybe someone
could buy one and report back the performance. The frugal folk
would appreciate it.

Regards

Charles
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **


Hi Charles,

I am not certain that we are talking about the same brand,
but, if so, here's a (much) less costly route:

Just buy a bunch of firebricks. Stand them up in an arc that
allows for a loaf to be put in the center.

That provides the heated mass that we seek, costs only a few
bucks, and can easily be removed at any time.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 28-02-2005, 11:26 PM
Al Wegener
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm using fibrament and am very happy with it. It's a full 3/4 inch and is
big enough to hold two good-size free-formed loafs. Heat I find is very
even.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will"
To: "Rec.Food.Sourdough"
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 4:05 PM
Subject: Ovens for proofing and bread baking?


On 2/28/05 2:56 PM, "Charles Perry" wrote:

I forgot to mention the Hearthkit. It is a ceramic oven insert
that claims to mimic a stone oven. If it works, a Hearthkit in a
GE is a lot cheaper than a Wolf. I am a little leary of the thing
because of all the bread cook book authors that seemingly endorse
the contraption. However, I am still curious, as long as I could
satisfy the curiosity with somebody elses $200. Maybe someone
could buy one and report back the performance. The frugal folk
would appreciate it.


While we're calling for testers. The fibrement people (link below) say

that
2 of their stones, placed top and bottom of oven, work better than a
Hearthkit. A lot less money too.

http://www.bakingstone.com/

Will

_______________________________________________
rec.food.sourdough mailing list

http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough


 




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