Howdy..

So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture.

So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics:

Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg


It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes.

Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg


Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much.

After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg


Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record.

Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg

The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want.

I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F.

http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg

Help?

Thanks....

"droopus" > wrote in message
...
Howdy..

So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are
results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture.

So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics:

Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F.
http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg


It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours
at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax
seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen
Aid for about 6 minutes.

Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg


Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much.

After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg


Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the
record.

Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg

The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly
not the result I want.

I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for
it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water,
flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough
proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F.

http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg

Help?

Thanks....
------------------------------------------
Judging from the pictures, your dough looks lumpy and I doubt it would have
passed the window pane test. To me, it seems that you didn't knead it enough
for the gluten to have developed properly.
Graham

On Wed, 4 Sep 2013 21:54:41 -0700 (PDT), droopus >
wrote:

>Howdy..
>
>So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture.
>
>So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics:
>
>Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg
>
>
>It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes.
>
>Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg
>
>
>Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much.
>
>After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg
>
>
>Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record.
>
>Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg
>
>The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want.
>
>I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F.
>
>http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg
>
>Help?
>
>Thanks....


Quick reply - not enough gluten development, overproofed, undershaped.
Any and all of these could contribute to it- a small error in each of
these could lead to a cascade of events and collapse.

Boron

In article >,
droopus > wrote:

> Howdy..
>
> So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results
> using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture.
>
> So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics:
>
> Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F.
> http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg
>
>
> It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at
> 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2
> tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for
> about 6 minutes.
>
> Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg
>
>
> Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much.
>
> After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg
>
>
> Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the
> record.
>
> Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg
>
> The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly
> not the result I want.
>
> I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for
> it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour,
> salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and
> then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F.
>
> http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg
>
> Help?
>
> Thanks....

Assuming the same process has worked in the past, what's changed? Most
likely culprit would be your water: chlorination, pH, and hardness all
can have some effect on your bread. As an experiment, you could try the
same recipe using bottled water, just to eliminate the possibility of
your municipal waterworks messing you up.

One problem is that it isn't possible to determine the percent hydration
from the information you provided, since we don't know the hydration or
weight of your cup of culture. It's convenient, for me, to keep my
culture at 100 percent hydration, and to weigh culture, flour, and water
when I'm making bread so that I can get exactly the hydration I'm aiming
for - I'm not expert enough to observe/handle dough and tell what it
needs more of, except in the most extreme cases.

On Wed, 4 Sep 2013 21:54:41 -0700 (PDT), droopus >
wrote:

>Howdy..
>
>So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture.
>
>So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics:
>
>Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg
>
>
>It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes.
>
>Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg
>
>
>Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much.
>
>After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg
>
>
>Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record.
>
>Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg
>
>The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want.
>
>I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F.
>
>http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg
>
>Help?
>
>Thanks....

Maybe the flour has a lower gluten content. I sometimes have
this problem across different batches of the same brand flour. (I live
in another country, so brand names would not help you).
Dough looks under-kneaded, and maybe a bit dry. Kneading is
not very important if dough has a high hydration-level.
Sourdough eats up the gluten. If you have already lowered the
gluten percentile by adding oats etc, any over-proofing is going to
lead to failure.
Do the finger test. Prod the dough. If it springs back
quickly, wait, if it doesn't spring back at all, it's over the hill.
Somewhere in between is good.
PS Nice pics
HTH

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 9:54:41 PM UTC-7, droopus wrote:
> Howdy..
>
>
>
> So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture.
>
>
>
> So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics:
>
>
>
> Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
> It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes.
>
>
>
> Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
> Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much.
>
>
>
> After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
> Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record.
>
>
>
> Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg
>
>
>
> The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want.
>
>
>
> I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F.
>
>
>
> http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg
>
>
>
> Help?
>
>
>
> Thanks....

Your long proof is WAY too warm. If you are going to do an overnight proof it wants to be below 50°F. Read Hamelman's guidance in "Bread"