Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?

(And yes, I know I can buy a tried and true starter. I just wanted to
do a little experimenting
Thanks
Chris
topherbeckerremoveme AT hotmailremoveme

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?

(And yes, I know I can buy a tried and true starter. I just wanted to
do a little experimenting
Thanks
Chris
topherbeckerremoveme AT hotmailremoveme

"Chris Becker" wrote in message
om...

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?


Why don't you try to give it a few more days? I've made a number of starters
using a similar method. Most times it can take more than four days to get a
starter going.

Thanks,
-Mike

"Chris Becker" wrote in message
om...

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?


Why don't you try to give it a few more days? I've made a number of starters
using a similar method. Most times it can take more than four days to get a
starter going.

Thanks,
-Mike

On 1 Nov 2004 07:55:12 -0800, (Chris Becker) wrote:

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?

It's been a while since I started mine from scratch, but I would wait
longer to start feeding. There's plenty of "food" there until the
critters get going. Basically, just stir it up once or twice a day
until it starts to expand noticeably, then do some feeding

I might wonder too about the water you're using -- is it treated city
water? In that case, getting some distilled water might be worth
trying.

My $0.02,

Dave T

On 1 Nov 2004 07:55:12 -0800, (Chris Becker) wrote:

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?

It's been a while since I started mine from scratch, but I would wait
longer to start feeding. There's plenty of "food" there until the
critters get going. Basically, just stir it up once or twice a day
until it starts to expand noticeably, then do some feeding

I might wonder too about the water you're using -- is it treated city
water? In that case, getting some distilled water might be worth
trying.

My $0.02,

Dave T

Chris Becker wrote:
Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?

(And yes, I know I can buy a tried and true starter. I just wanted to
do a little experimenting
Thanks
Chris


A rye, whole wheat or cracked wheat will have more natural "bugs" to get
things going...once going simply feed with white flour. Any homebrewed
starter I've tried was going strong within a week but still requires weeks
or months to finally settle down to a consistent predicable
culture.....Soggy

Chris Becker wrote:
Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?

(And yes, I know I can buy a tried and true starter. I just wanted to
do a little experimenting
Thanks
Chris


A rye, whole wheat or cracked wheat will have more natural "bugs" to get
things going...once going simply feed with white flour. Any homebrewed
starter I've tried was going strong within a week but still requires weeks
or months to finally settle down to a consistent predicable
culture.....Soggy

Hi Chris,

You wrote:

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water?

If you look back through my posts from a few months ago you'll see some
answers to my questions which may help you. I followed the instructions
in the FAQ (use rye flour for the 1st 3-4 days, refresh daily, then
switch to plain flour) and got lucky to produce a starter which has
worked quite well. I've since obtained a starter from someone on this
list (thanks Ulrike) and I was pleasantly surprised to find that mine is
not too different in its level of activity. I recently got some from
Carl's friends and it is quite impressive in its activity level. While I
am very fond of my starter, I must confess that it's been in the fridge
ever since then :-)

I've been trying to do so for about 4 days now.

It took well over a week for me. At that point the starter would raise
bread but the resulting loaf had a funny taste and smell. I took
Kenneth's advice and started 12 hourly refreshments and after about 4-5
days the funny smell vanished. My first few loaves were extremely sour
but that too has settled down after a while to produce nicely flavoured
loaves.

Hope this helps,

james
(reverse each part of my email address to contact me directly)

Hi Chris,

You wrote:

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water?

If you look back through my posts from a few months ago you'll see some
answers to my questions which may help you. I followed the instructions
in the FAQ (use rye flour for the 1st 3-4 days, refresh daily, then
switch to plain flour) and got lucky to produce a starter which has
worked quite well. I've since obtained a starter from someone on this
list (thanks Ulrike) and I was pleasantly surprised to find that mine is
not too different in its level of activity. I recently got some from
Carl's friends and it is quite impressive in its activity level. While I
am very fond of my starter, I must confess that it's been in the fridge
ever since then :-)

I've been trying to do so for about 4 days now.

It took well over a week for me. At that point the starter would raise
bread but the resulting loaf had a funny taste and smell. I took
Kenneth's advice and started 12 hourly refreshments and after about 4-5
days the funny smell vanished. My first few loaves were extremely sour
but that too has settled down after a while to produce nicely flavoured
loaves.

Hope this helps,

james
(reverse each part of my email address to contact me directly)

Hi Chris,

You wrote:

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water?

If you look back through my posts from a few months ago you'll see some
answers to my questions which may help you. I followed the instructions
in the FAQ (use rye flour for the 1st 3-4 days, refresh daily, then
switch to plain flour) and got lucky to produce a starter which has
worked quite well. I've since obtained a starter from someone on this
list (thanks Ulrike) and I was pleasantly surprised to find that mine is
not too different in its level of activity. I recently got some from
Carl's friends and it is quite impressive in its activity level. While I
am very fond of my starter, I must confess that it's been in the fridge
ever since then :-)

I've been trying to do so for about 4 days now.

It took well over a week for me. At that point the starter would raise
bread but the resulting loaf had a funny taste and smell. I took
Kenneth's advice and started 12 hourly refreshments and after about 4-5
days the funny smell vanished. My first few loaves were extremely sour
but that too has settled down after a while to produce nicely flavoured
loaves.

Hope this helps,

james
(reverse each part of my email address to contact me directly)

DaveT wrote in message . ..
On 1 Nov 2004 07:55:12 -0800, (Chris Becker) wrote:

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?

It's been a while since I started mine from scratch, but I would wait
longer to start feeding. There's plenty of "food" there until the
critters get going. Basically, just stir it up once or twice a day
until it starts to expand noticeably, then do some feeding

So I experienced much greater activity after the last feeding. Now I
get a nice foam on top of the mix. Couple more questions though.
1)is the foam normal? It's sort of a light brownish/blackish foam.
very light in color though.
2)should the consistency turn quite soupy? almost like water? It's
much thicker when I first feed it.
3)smell. I think it's okay, but my wife is not so sure. She says it
smells like cheese. I would agree. It also smells like alcohol and
vinegar. I've read on earlier posts it is okay if it smells
'interesting'. It definitely smells 'interesting' but I'm not sure
I'd want to taste it (and I am pretty adventurous when it comes to
food). Sometimes it smells a bit like throwup but not quit as strong.
Anyhow, the smell is much more mild after the last feeding so we'll
see what happens after tonites feed.


I might wonder too about the water you're using -- is it treated city
water? In that case, getting some distilled water might be worth
trying.

I'm using distilled/bottled water

My $0.02,

Dave T


If anyone lives in the DC area, I'd love to look at and smell your
healthy starter. (Never said that before That will give me an
idea of what I am shooting for.
Thanks in advance
-c

Hi Chris,

Please see my comments inline below...




On 2 Nov 2004 16:21:38 -0800, (Chris Becker) wrote:

DaveT wrote in message . ..
On 1 Nov 2004 07:55:12 -0800, (Chris Becker) wrote:

Is it possible to make a starter with just flour (KA) and water? I've
been trying to do so for about 4 days now. I mixed 50g each of water
and flour. Let it sit for about 24 hours. Dump some out and feed
again with 50g water 50g flour. I do get activity although I wouldn't
say I get a doubling in size of starter between feedings. Am I
wasting my time or will I eventually get something I can use to make
some bread rise?

It's been a while since I started mine from scratch, but I would wait
longer to start feeding. There's plenty of "food" there until the
critters get going. Basically, just stir it up once or twice a day
until it starts to expand noticeably, then do some feeding

So I experienced much greater activity after the last feeding. Now I
get a nice foam on top of the mix. Couple more questions though.
1)is the foam normal? It's sort of a light brownish/blackish foam.
very light in color though.

Foaming is normal. What is "light" black...?


2)should the consistency turn quite soupy? almost like water? It's
much thicker when I first feed it.

It is normal for the starter to get "thinner" in consistency. That is
because as the critters eat the available nutrients they produce
acids. These degrade the gluten. That is the rubbery protein that
enables dough to "hold" the trapped gasses, and thus, rise.


3)smell. I think it's okay, but my wife is not so sure. She says it
smells like cheese. I would agree. It also smells like alcohol and
vinegar. I've read on earlier posts it is okay if it smells
'interesting'. It definitely smells 'interesting' but I'm not sure
I'd want to taste it (and I am pretty adventurous when it comes to
food). Sometimes it smells a bit like throwup but not quit as strong.
Anyhow, the smell is much more mild after the last feeding so we'll
see what happens after tonites feed.


Don't be overly concerned about the smell (or taste for that matter)
of the starter. If it makes good bread, it is a good starter.




I might wonder too about the water you're using -- is it treated city
water? In that case, getting some distilled water might be worth
trying.

I'm using distilled/bottled water

My $0.02,

Dave T


If anyone lives in the DC area, I'd love to look at and smell your
healthy starter. (Never said that before That will give me an
idea of what I am shooting for.
Thanks in advance
-c


Have fun with it, and when it expands significantly after feeding,
bake something with it.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote in message . ..

Foaming is normal. What is "light" black...?

Ha! That sounds funny doesn't it? I meant a light grey.



2)should the consistency turn quite soupy? almost like water? It's
much thicker when I first feed it.

It is normal for the starter to get "thinner" in consistency. That is
because as the critters eat the available nutrients they produce
acids. These degrade the gluten. That is the rubbery protein that
enables dough to "hold" the trapped gasses, and thus, rise.

Okay, this makes sense. After about 9 hours after feeding last nite,
the mix had doubled but when I stirred it, it had a bit of a doughy
consistency (very weak dough). When I get home from work today, I
fully expect to have soup again which follows what you are saying,
i.e. that the acid is breaking down the gluten.



3)smell. I think it's okay, but my wife is not so sure. She says it
smells like cheese. I would agree. It also smells like alcohol and
vinegar. I've read on earlier posts it is okay if it smells
'interesting'. It definitely smells 'interesting' but I'm not sure
I'd want to taste it (and I am pretty adventurous when it comes to
food). Sometimes it smells a bit like throwup but not quit as strong.
Anyhow, the smell is much more mild after the last feeding so we'll
see what happens after tonites feed.


Don't be overly concerned about the smell (or taste for that matter)
of the starter. If it makes good bread, it is a good starter.

I'll be baking 'something' this weekend so we'll see what happens.
Maybe my bread will taste like cheese. Is there any concern about
getting sick?

Thanks
Chris

Kenneth wrote in message . ..

Foaming is normal. What is "light" black...?

Ha! That sounds funny doesn't it? I meant a light grey.



2)should the consistency turn quite soupy? almost like water? It's
much thicker when I first feed it.

It is normal for the starter to get "thinner" in consistency. That is
because as the critters eat the available nutrients they produce
acids. These degrade the gluten. That is the rubbery protein that
enables dough to "hold" the trapped gasses, and thus, rise.

Okay, this makes sense. After about 9 hours after feeding last nite,
the mix had doubled but when I stirred it, it had a bit of a doughy
consistency (very weak dough). When I get home from work today, I
fully expect to have soup again which follows what you are saying,
i.e. that the acid is breaking down the gluten.



3)smell. I think it's okay, but my wife is not so sure. She says it
smells like cheese. I would agree. It also smells like alcohol and
vinegar. I've read on earlier posts it is okay if it smells
'interesting'. It definitely smells 'interesting' but I'm not sure
I'd want to taste it (and I am pretty adventurous when it comes to
food). Sometimes it smells a bit like throwup but not quit as strong.
Anyhow, the smell is much more mild after the last feeding so we'll
see what happens after tonites feed.


Don't be overly concerned about the smell (or taste for that matter)
of the starter. If it makes good bread, it is a good starter.

I'll be baking 'something' this weekend so we'll see what happens.
Maybe my bread will taste like cheese. Is there any concern about
getting sick?

Thanks
Chris