On 9/19/04 12:38 PM, "Dick Adams" wrote:


"williamwaller" wrote in message
news:mailman.0.1095609415.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

My @#$%^&* camera is on the fritz. It was one of those cheap H-
P's that came with my Mac. So I cannot accommodate you. Sadly, the
big hole loaves are about to be toast this morning g.

That is understandable. Kenneth, who has been here for years,
and who has every gadget known to mankind, has never succeeded to
produce a graphic. "Bob", who was the most prodigious exploiter
ever of effusive nomenclature at r.f.s. finally produced an image
of a Schlotzky Bun wannabe, as I recall, but I can't find it
anymore. Maybe that should give us some hope, anyway.

The toast was pretty good even though the butter dripped through the big
holes and incredibly porous crumb.


Bob's wife would not let him use the scanner for bread, which was
very sad. But not so sad as a busted crappy digital camera, I
guess.


Yes, sadder than you think. Especially since now the wife wants a Nikon D70.
When I married her she had more reasonable taste. We celebrated our 1st
anniversary with a little KitchenAid; not pearls.

Moving on...I am quite anxious to see how this lamination process
works for whole grain loaves.

Well, you will probably have better luck than I would,
particularly since you have no way to create a record of your
results. The secret is to just wait a few days before attempting
to recall and describe the degree of success you achieved.
Actually, waiting several weeks is better.

But I will still post the truth! Trust me.

Maybe it is time to revisit the Schlotzky Bun. It is something
like we have been talking about. Scroll down at
http://www.schlotzskys.com/. I have been thinking about
making one bun at a time in my experiments so as not to waste
flour.

Too bad we're not neighbors, the wife would eat them...

Will

On 9/19/04 12:38 PM, "Dick Adams" wrote:


"williamwaller" wrote in message
news:mailman.0.1095609415.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

My @#$%^&* camera is on the fritz. It was one of those cheap H-
P's that came with my Mac. So I cannot accommodate you. Sadly, the
big hole loaves are about to be toast this morning g.

That is understandable. Kenneth, who has been here for years,
and who has every gadget known to mankind, has never succeeded to
produce a graphic. "Bob", who was the most prodigious exploiter
ever of effusive nomenclature at r.f.s. finally produced an image
of a Schlotzky Bun wannabe, as I recall, but I can't find it
anymore. Maybe that should give us some hope, anyway.

The toast was pretty good even though the butter dripped through the big
holes and incredibly porous crumb.


Bob's wife would not let him use the scanner for bread, which was
very sad. But not so sad as a busted crappy digital camera, I
guess.


Yes, sadder than you think. Especially since now the wife wants a Nikon D70.
When I married her she had more reasonable taste. We celebrated our 1st
anniversary with a little KitchenAid; not pearls.

Moving on...I am quite anxious to see how this lamination process
works for whole grain loaves.

Well, you will probably have better luck than I would,
particularly since you have no way to create a record of your
results. The secret is to just wait a few days before attempting
to recall and describe the degree of success you achieved.
Actually, waiting several weeks is better.

But I will still post the truth! Trust me.

Maybe it is time to revisit the Schlotzky Bun. It is something
like we have been talking about. Scroll down at
http://www.schlotzskys.com/. I have been thinking about
making one bun at a time in my experiments so as not to waste
flour.

Too bad we're not neighbors, the wife would eat them...

Will

On 9/19/04 12:38 PM, "Dick Adams" wrote:


"williamwaller" wrote in message
news:mailman.0.1095609415.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

My @#$%^&* camera is on the fritz. It was one of those cheap H-
P's that came with my Mac. So I cannot accommodate you. Sadly, the
big hole loaves are about to be toast this morning g.

That is understandable. Kenneth, who has been here for years,
and who has every gadget known to mankind, has never succeeded to
produce a graphic. "Bob", who was the most prodigious exploiter
ever of effusive nomenclature at r.f.s. finally produced an image
of a Schlotzky Bun wannabe, as I recall, but I can't find it
anymore. Maybe that should give us some hope, anyway.

The toast was pretty good even though the butter dripped through the big
holes and incredibly porous crumb.


Bob's wife would not let him use the scanner for bread, which was
very sad. But not so sad as a busted crappy digital camera, I
guess.


Yes, sadder than you think. Especially since now the wife wants a Nikon D70.
When I married her she had more reasonable taste. We celebrated our 1st
anniversary with a little KitchenAid; not pearls.

Moving on...I am quite anxious to see how this lamination process
works for whole grain loaves.

Well, you will probably have better luck than I would,
particularly since you have no way to create a record of your
results. The secret is to just wait a few days before attempting
to recall and describe the degree of success you achieved.
Actually, waiting several weeks is better.

But I will still post the truth! Trust me.

Maybe it is time to revisit the Schlotzky Bun. It is something
like we have been talking about. Scroll down at
http://www.schlotzskys.com/. I have been thinking about
making one bun at a time in my experiments so as not to waste
flour.

Too bad we're not neighbors, the wife would eat them...

Will

On 9/22/04 10:26 PM, "Dick Adams" wrote:


"williamwaller" wrote in message
news:mailman.2.1095884692.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

On 9/22/04 3:07 PM, "Dick Adams" wrote:

Woe is me! I guess it's bread at the store for me.

This is your Karma for insisting on pictures g and your generally
suspicious nature bg.

Politely asking is not insisting on. How can one avoid being suspicious
of people who say things like:
"Works like a dream. Loaves literally soared in the oven. Beautiful wide-open
crumb."
???
as in news:mailman.0.1095552750.243.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com

Well, "Joe Doe", who appeared about that time, came up with some pictures,
though seeming a bit lukewarm about them. All we have from you, however, is
exuberation, and complaints about certain cameras that come with Macintoshes.

---
DickA

Once in a while there's a real nugget to be mined on this list. This one
belongs to Roland.

Will
(exuberant minimalist)



_______________________________________________
rec.food.sourdough mailing list

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"williamwaller" wrote in message =
news:mailman.3.1095954637.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

Once in a while there's a real nugget to be mined on this list. This =
one
belongs to Roland.

I thought so too. But his photos were much to big for my screen and =
humble
dial-up connection. I took one of them and cut it down to a reasonable =
size:

http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...5percentWW/=20

(I hope he will forgive me for that.)

---
DickA

"williamwaller" wrote in message =
news:mailman.3.1095954637.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

Once in a while there's a real nugget to be mined on this list. This =
one
belongs to Roland.

I thought so too. But his photos were much to big for my screen and =
humble
dial-up connection. I took one of them and cut it down to a reasonable =
size:

http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...5percentWW/=20

(I hope he will forgive me for that.)

---
DickA

In article
,
"Dick Adams" wrote:

"williamwaller" wrote in message
news:mailman.3.1095954637.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

Once in a while there's a real nugget to be mined on this list. This one
belongs to Roland.

I thought so too. But his photos were much to big for my screen and humble
dial-up connection. I took one of them and cut it down to a reasonable size:

http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...oe25percentWW/

(I hope he will forgive me for that.)

---
DickA


To what size do you shrink pictures to be dial up friendly?

Roland

In article
,
"Dick Adams" wrote:

"williamwaller" wrote in message
news:mailman.3.1095954637.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

Once in a while there's a real nugget to be mined on this list. This one
belongs to Roland.

I thought so too. But his photos were much to big for my screen and humble
dial-up connection. I took one of them and cut it down to a reasonable size:

http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...oe25percentWW/

(I hope he will forgive me for that.)

---
DickA


To what size do you shrink pictures to be dial up friendly?

Roland

"Joe Doe" wrote in message =
...

http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...5percentWW/=20

To what size do you shrink pictures to be dial up friendly?

The top one is 640 x 480 @ 72 ppi. That does not look too bad on my
800 x 600 pixel screen. File size can also be reduced by lowering JPG
quality, which is hard to notice. Some graphics programs have utilities
that do all the stuff semiautomically. People who put out big bucks for
high-res. digital cameras, who have way-broad-band hook-ups and huge
monitor screens, may not see the advantage of reducing file size, =
however.
At http://samartha.net/SD/, you can usually display images in your =
choice of=20
screen size. Then you can decide for yourself the size at which no =
further=20
significant detail comes apparent.

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastname at bigfoot dot com

"Joe Doe" wrote in message =
...

http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...5percentWW/=20

To what size do you shrink pictures to be dial up friendly?

The top one is 640 x 480 @ 72 ppi. That does not look too bad on my
800 x 600 pixel screen. File size can also be reduced by lowering JPG
quality, which is hard to notice. Some graphics programs have utilities
that do all the stuff semiautomically. People who put out big bucks for
high-res. digital cameras, who have way-broad-band hook-ups and huge
monitor screens, may not see the advantage of reducing file size, =
however.
At http://samartha.net/SD/, you can usually display images in your =
choice of=20
screen size. Then you can decide for yourself the size at which no =
further=20
significant detail comes apparent.

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastname at bigfoot dot com

On 9/26/04 12:06 PM, "Dick Adams" wrote:


"williamwaller" wrote in message
news:mailman.5.1096214652.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

I have struggled with #4 myself as well. My gas oven retains a lot of water
vapor (is damp) during the early stages of heating. But that hasn't
translated into keeping the crust soft enough to fully develop the crumb.

My point would be: if you take the whole rise before baking, there is not
a need to keep the crust pliable.

True. But I don't proof to extreme when using the baskets because then the
invert turns to slop.

So, to revise the question: can the crumb be developed as the dough
rises on the bench, and if not, why not??

I think it needs the heat at the end to facilitate a more fully developed
(open) structure.

In other words, exactly why is it that we need a hot oven to make the
loaves holey?

Well, we are heating some gases, and vaporizing a bit of alcohol. And getting
a death blast of carbon dioxide from the "critters". But why not just
arrange
for the critters to do a bit more work as the loaf sits on the counter?

I get better loaves from a very hot start and proper slashing to facilitate
the final push. I bake this way when I proof in baskets and invert.

Well, proper slashing is quite a knack, you know!

Tell me about it... I finally got this nifty lame from TMB Baking for $5
that made me semi-competent.

And the basket flip is a marvelous antic, when mastered. I always had trouble
with both.

Do you use floured linen? Or does Mrs. Adams require the economy of dish
towels...

I also use La Cloche covered bakers, primarily when I want a long, extensive
proof, almost an over-proof situation, where the dough becomes too flaccid
to handle. Most of my heavier whole grain breads get this treatment. These
loaves work best with a covered cold start while the oven builds to 500 F.
Then I heat soak the loaves uncovered for 12-15 minutes to mature the crust.
I suppose that would translate into "taking the last part of the rise in the
oven", except the doughs are usually so mature there is little spring
potential. It is more trapping the outgassed dough moisture as an analogue
for "steam" than anything else. This works quite well (not to the point of
ebullience) but has proven far superior, and simpler, than any other
machination for generating "steam" like pans with water, spritzing the oven,
etc...

Well, it sounds like you have got the cloche bake down to a routine. Could
you post some photos of your cloche-baked loaves?

When I get another camera, be happy to.

(For some reason I thought one started with a preheated cloche, and I
trepidated at the very thought of handling such a thing. "Carlos" did some
admirable work with a flower pot:
http://home.att.net/carlospics/ArtisanalLoaf.htm.

Peter Reinhart recommends pre-heating the cloche base and top too. Despite
my immense respect for his contributions to the bread world, I thought I'd
give cold starts a trial. Just pure dumb luck I suppose. And in fact... to
repeat myself, a cold start works great with cloches. But it does go against
the grain of accepted practice. Most experienced bakers think you're nuts
for suggesting it. Commercial practice is a strong influence.

On 9/26/04 12:06 PM, "Dick Adams" wrote:


"williamwaller" wrote in message
news:mailman.5.1096214652.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

I have struggled with #4 myself as well. My gas oven retains a lot of water
vapor (is damp) during the early stages of heating. But that hasn't
translated into keeping the crust soft enough to fully develop the crumb.

My point would be: if you take the whole rise before baking, there is not
a need to keep the crust pliable.

True. But I don't proof to extreme when using the baskets because then the
invert turns to slop.

So, to revise the question: can the crumb be developed as the dough
rises on the bench, and if not, why not??

I think it needs the heat at the end to facilitate a more fully developed
(open) structure.

In other words, exactly why is it that we need a hot oven to make the
loaves holey?

Well, we are heating some gases, and vaporizing a bit of alcohol. And getting
a death blast of carbon dioxide from the "critters". But why not just
arrange
for the critters to do a bit more work as the loaf sits on the counter?

I get better loaves from a very hot start and proper slashing to facilitate
the final push. I bake this way when I proof in baskets and invert.

Well, proper slashing is quite a knack, you know!

Tell me about it... I finally got this nifty lame from TMB Baking for $5
that made me semi-competent.

And the basket flip is a marvelous antic, when mastered. I always had trouble
with both.

Do you use floured linen? Or does Mrs. Adams require the economy of dish
towels...

I also use La Cloche covered bakers, primarily when I want a long, extensive
proof, almost an over-proof situation, where the dough becomes too flaccid
to handle. Most of my heavier whole grain breads get this treatment. These
loaves work best with a covered cold start while the oven builds to 500 F.
Then I heat soak the loaves uncovered for 12-15 minutes to mature the crust.
I suppose that would translate into "taking the last part of the rise in the
oven", except the doughs are usually so mature there is little spring
potential. It is more trapping the outgassed dough moisture as an analogue
for "steam" than anything else. This works quite well (not to the point of
ebullience) but has proven far superior, and simpler, than any other
machination for generating "steam" like pans with water, spritzing the oven,
etc...

Well, it sounds like you have got the cloche bake down to a routine. Could
you post some photos of your cloche-baked loaves?

When I get another camera, be happy to.

(For some reason I thought one started with a preheated cloche, and I
trepidated at the very thought of handling such a thing. "Carlos" did some
admirable work with a flower pot:
http://home.att.net/carlospics/ArtisanalLoaf.htm.

Peter Reinhart recommends pre-heating the cloche base and top too. Despite
my immense respect for his contributions to the bread world, I thought I'd
give cold starts a trial. Just pure dumb luck I suppose. And in fact... to
repeat myself, a cold start works great with cloches. But it does go against
the grain of accepted practice. Most experienced bakers think you're nuts
for suggesting it. Commercial practice is a strong influence.

"williamwaller" wrote in message =
news:mailman.6.1096222660.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...
=20
I finally got this nifty lame from TMB Baking for $5
that made me semi-competent.

Do you use floured linen?=20

You are clearly in at a level of sophisticated technological=20
implementation I have yet to achieve.=20

Could you post some photos of your cloche-baked loaves?
=20
When I get another camera, be happy to.

Get one now, Will. We are getting very impatient!

---
DickA

"williamwaller" wrote in message =
news:mailman.6.1096222660.536.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...
=20
I finally got this nifty lame from TMB Baking for $5
that made me semi-competent.

Do you use floured linen?=20

You are clearly in at a level of sophisticated technological=20
implementation I have yet to achieve.=20

Could you post some photos of your cloche-baked loaves?
=20
When I get another camera, be happy to.

Get one now, Will. We are getting very impatient!

---
DickA

On 9/26/04 12:19 PM, "Dick Adams" wrote:


"Dick Adams" in message

misspoke to williamwaller:

"Carlos" did some admirable work with a flower pot:
http://home.att.net/carlospics/ArtisanalLoaf.htm.

Ooops!

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/ca...isanalLoaf.htm

So the faeries have given way to terra cotta!
Pretty respectable loaf shot there...





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