After last week's posting, my first ever sourdough loaf with Carl's
starter, I asked for advice about increasing the sour taste of a loaf.
The advice was to allow the starter to grow in a cooler climate, and
to let the loaf rise two or three times on the counter rather than in
a warm oven.

Last Sunday, I put 1/2 cup of starter in a quart mason jar along with
a cup of water and flour...and into the refrigerator it went. On
Monday evening I had to shake the jar to dislodge the bubbles,
otherwise it would have overflowed the jar. Did the same on Tuesday
evening. On Wednesday evening, there was a hooch layer (about 1/2
inch), so I left the jar on the counter over night after feeding it
with another cup of flour and a cup of water. On Thursday morning, the
foaming was once again evident, so after a good shaking it went back
into the refrigerator. On Thursday night and Friday night the foaming
had filled the jar and after a good shaking, it went back into the
refrigerator. Then, Saturday morning I saw a hooch layer (about 3/4
inch), and dumped the whole batch into a 4 qt ceramic bowl, added
another cup or water and cup of flour. (I wanted the starter to be
wide awake for a Sunday of baking.) Well, it just sat there after a
tiny bit of bubbling over a few hours. On Sunday, there was no
evidence of life...no bubbles, just a layer of hooch on top of a flour/
water mix.

I thought that I'd killed it. As an experiment, I took a tablespoon
each of the 'dead' starter, water and flour and put that into a small
glass jar that had been boiled in water. Since this was the same
ratios that I'd been feeding the starter, I didn't expect much to
happen. However, those ratios were approximately what I'd used a week
or so before when reviving Carl's dried starter and I was hoping for
the best. Nothing happened after 12 hours...

As a second experiment, I mixed a tablespoon of starter with a cup of
water and a cup of flour in that original mason jar. After 3 hours the
starter filled the jar with bubbles and needed a good shake to avoid
overflowing.

As a rookie microbiologist :-), I conclude that the byproducts of
feeding a starter (lactic acid, ethanol ?, and other stuff) inhibited
the starter from growing after the last feeding on Saturday.

Next weekend, I'll take a half cup of starter and mix it with a cup of
water and a cup of flour...that should produce an active starter.

Do any of the experienced bakers have any other advice about reviving
the starter or comments for this humble rookie ?

Oh, I mixed a loaf of bread using the 'dead' starter and a package of
yeast, mixed in some sesame seeds and made some really great
breadsticks...so it wasn't a total loss.

Doug

wrote:
After last week's posting, my first ever sourdough loaf with Carl's
starter, I asked for advice about increasing the sour taste of a loaf.
The advice was to allow the starter to grow in a cooler climate, and
to let the loaf rise two or three times on the counter rather than in
a warm oven.

I think you let it get too sour.

I just gave my starter 48 hours of 12 hour feeds as an experiment on the
counter and it was 'real' sour. It did 'take' for a warm 'wake up' grow
no problem and grew bread, but it was a pretty heavy loaf. Any more
fermenting and it likely would have gone flat like yours did. I have
done that before also.

When you have hooch on top, the starter is starving, that isn't a good
thing. I likely use less than 1 tbsp of starter and 4 level tbsp flour
and two tbsp of water for my storage sponge. Lots of food for the
amount of starter.

I give mine a feed, then put it in the fridge for a week or so, then
take it out, give it a wake up feed and use it. Usually that isn't long
enough to have hooch, mine needs a couple weeks for that.

If I want a sour loaf, I go for a warm wake up grow, then a 12-14 hour
grow overnight, then give it a wake up in a warm oven and make bread.
The overnight feed makes my starter nice and tangy. Sometimes I do two
long feeds for more sour, but I find the more sour the loaf, the heavier
the bread usually.

I want to see if I can develop a 6 hour last rise like Dick does for a
sour loaf. His direction sheet looks easy to follow.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

wrote:
[..]

As a rookie microbiologist :-),
You are doing great by ignoring the generation time (doubling of
organisms) of 1 - 2.5 hours by sourdough critters and feeding accordingly.

There is plenty of advice around how to do the same and still get some
decent bread going. It all works - sourdough is very forgiving.

Sam

Hi Doug,

there's no need to take your starter to Lapland, a break in the fridge
or a cold cupboard usually does well enough. : -)

But seriously, as Sam pointed out your sourdough critters will double
in number in 1 hour at optimum temps, this time increases steeply away
from that temp. If you are interested there's some data in the FAQ. I
averaged out the rates here (time til double).

8 C 18.0 hr
15 C 6.0 hr
21 C 2.6 hr
30 C 1.3 hr

So what does it mean that your critters double in number in a few
hours. It means basicially that in a few hours they'll need twice the
amount of food that they needed at the start, in a few hours more
they'll need four times the amount and so on.

Like Sam said the vast majority of advice (also from rookies who read
a web page and think they know enough to write their own) will tell
you to feed in that manner that you have. As you can see from all the
hooch and lack of activity you starved your starter almost to death.

Jim

On 23 Mar, 19:47, wrote:
After last week's posting, my first ever sourdough loaf with Carl's
starter, I asked for advice about increasing the sour taste of a loaf.
The advice was to allow the starter to grow in a cooler climate,...


Do any of the experienced bakers have any other advice about reviving
the starter or comments for this humble rookie ?

Oh, I mixed a loaf of bread using the 'dead' starter and a package of
yeast, mixed in some sesame seeds and made some really great
breadsticks...so it wasn't a total loss.

Doug