I think I like the basic definition of baguette as a long thin loaf with
slashes and a crunchy crust. That works for me.

The wiki says it came with the idea of steam in the 1920's and a time
limit on work hours, also no mention of what kind of yeast leavens it,
but the links provided 'do' include lots of talk of a pre-ferment stage
or souring the dough and how to include it.

They also use molds for shaping them.... I don't...yet anyway.

I tried using 'viince's' mix of .5% commercial yeast in my mix today and
it worked out really well. My first rise took 1.5 hours and the second,
in the loaf stage about an hour. I 'did' knead this batch for about 8
minutes until it felt right. (won't fold anymore and pushes back eh)

I got my oven up to 500 and put a pan of boiling water in the bottom for
the first 15 minutes. The loaves took about 30 minutes I think, but I
forgot to look, I just took them out when they looked done and tapped
hollow.

I don't think I need to modify this recipe for next time, but we will
see what my 'market' has to say about it when they get home at midnight
or so.

The photos are in the featured album he
http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

Mike

Mike:
The photos are in the featured album hehttp://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

The look much better than the last photos you posted. The higher temp
helped.

Lucy

Trix wrote:
Mike:
The photos are in the featured album hehttp://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

The look much better than the last photos you posted. The higher temp
helped.

Lucy

The outer skin is also much nicer in a kneaded loaf vs the no-knead the
others all were. It is an 'easy' recipe, but I do like the kneaded better.

As 'viince' says, looks do count, even in perceived taste. My ugly
loafs are getting farther between at least. LOL.

Mike

As 'viince' says, looks do count, even in perceived taste. My ugly
loafs are getting farther between at least. LOL.

Mike

Look this is what I was doing a while ago
http://picasaweb.google.com/cacaprou...64879790735378
And this is what I do now: http://picasaweb.google.com/cacaprou...05091019908514

practice makes perfect, so keep it real!

Have you tried baking a loaf in a pot? Because that's the way I get
the best crust if baking home. Or in deep tray with kitchen foil on
top as Andy does with real good results. (http://myplot.org/oven/
images/ov/ov77.jpg)

viince wrote:
As 'viince' says, looks do count, even in perceived taste. My ugly
loafs are getting farther between at least. LOL.

Mike

Look this is what I was doing a while ago
http://picasaweb.google.com/cacaprou...64879790735378
And this is what I do now: http://picasaweb.google.com/cacaprou...05091019908514

practice makes perfect, so keep it real!

Have you tried baking a loaf in a pot? Because that's the way I get
the best crust if baking home. Or in deep tray with kitchen foil on
top as Andy does with real good results. (http://myplot.org/oven/
images/ov/ov77.jpg)

I cut into my round loaf this morning, so I added one more photo of it's
crumb. http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

The little shot, .5%, of yeast sure makes a softer loaf and keeps the
sourdough taste and crust texture intact. This loaf was baked at 425
for 15 minutes, then 375 for another 25 minutes. I didn't want to use
the 'new to me' high heat on all the bread...

Do you bake your round loaves as hot as the French Sticks or flutes? I
like the crust results of the high heat, but worry about the centers.

I have used Pyrex baking dishes to hold the shape of a couple rye loaves
and I do use conventional bread loaf tins for white bread mostly, but on
occasion SD. I use a hot cast iron pan for cornbread. A dark pan does
enhance the crust texture and colour, the glass (Pyrex) ones keep the
crust a lot lighter.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

So, vince,

Can you achieve similar results as the second photo at home? That is
what I'd like to get to...if it is possible...I haven't yet tried
covering with foil...I don't have a pot long enough...I could try my
roasting pan....and make a shorter, stouter loaf. I have used the NY
no-knead type method baking in a smaller Le Creuset pot for a round
loaf. How much would I need to seal the foil to the pan or would it
work (and still keep enough steam in) on the cookie/baking low sided
pan on which I've been currently using to bake loaves?

Do you keep the temp in the the higher range the whole baking time (at
home)?

Lucy

The photos are in the featured album hehttp://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

Mike

I agree with Vince, your loaves are looking much nicer especially the
crust, the inside maybe I would like for more volume and variety of
bubble size but anyway ...


This stuff has 4 grams per 30 or 13.33% protein and is enriched with
thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, iron, folic acid (folate). Woah, that was
a mouthful, eh.


wow, shows you how easily the different national standards of flour
can cause confusion, your 'all-purpose' flour would be in bracket of
strongest bread flour available in UK and off the scale in France. So
you could try adding some less strong flour, assuming you can actually
get this, for baguette. If you did this will mean your hydration will
need to be adjusted down, main effect in my experience will be you get
a deeper and more crunchy crust (when fresh).

for Lucy

I had been having a problem finding the right knife to use to make the
slashes so, I ordered a victorinox tomato knife (as you
suggested)...it has a split tip...did you cut that tip off, or did
yours not have that kind of tip?

here is Vince's knife

http://www.myplot.org/oven/gallery.p...e=6&project=13 behind the
wheel

and after that is pics of little comparison of our flutes that me and
Vince did on Saturday. Both loaves 360g dough, 280g baked. As we know
mine is 100% SD, 14% rotten dough and for this one 20% wheat fed
starter, Vince's has 0.5% yeast and 20% rye fed starter. Mine is T65
which is a slightly off white bread flour + 7% light rye, Vince's is
T65 + 30% T85 which more to a brown flour - so is darker crumb.
Proofing is very different since mine was 16 hours and Vince's 6 or 7
(?). I have to say I preferred the crust on mine, volume of mine was
also higher but I don't think Vince's was quite typical, normally does
have more volume than here - maybe because his starter had gone a bit
berserk - running around the bakery floor - overnight. If anything I
think Vince's had slightly more SD flavour but significantly for me
his crumb was noticeably softer than mine. For me this is important
because softer, less gelatinised crumb wall means crumb is more
capable of absorbing liquid. For me a baguette should be capable of
mopping up gravy, sauces etc so its important it has at least some big
holes to capture sauce like a spoon but also that the crumb can
absorb and take on flavour of sauce a bit. I did I think notice that
Vince's was fair bit less salty than mine, his recipe 2% salt, mine is
2.25% but real difference maybe greater and this I think maybe one
factor why my crumb was not so soft and this will be next tweak to
recipe I make - though I do like bread to the more salty side (and
unsalted butter). There is also the question that I can't get my
domestic oven over 200C so this leads to my crumb being harder, drier
by the time crust is done how I want compared to with a hotter oven.

yours
atty

Andy, I went ahead and ordered a knife that looks just like Vince's
since they aren't very expensive. He had already posted a picture of
his knife on the Video thread (using Google groups). I was intrigued
by the mud oven concept and may order that book about how to build and
earth oven. My oven gets up to 290.55c which is what I use to bake my
SD pizza.

I see you and vince were baking those loaves in his bakery. Both your
loaves looked good. Thanks for the description of what each of you
did.

The color of the crumb of mine tends to look a bit more like vinces
because I use my rye SD starter most of the time. When my SD is
hydrated enough to produce large holes in the crumb it has that
gelatinous quality to it...not soft...I am not sure how to change that
outcome. I have under salted many more times than over salted my
dough. I've been using a combination of Celtic sea salt (grey) and
Himalayan red mountain sea salt. The 5% yeast is probably what makes
for the softer product.



Lucy

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT), Trix
wrote:

I've been using a combination of Celtic sea salt (grey) and
Himalayan red mountain sea salt.

Hi Lucy,

I have a question about what you have written above, but
offer it with some slight caution.

It is in no way a criticism...

And, though your comment above stimulated my response, it is
certainly not directed only to you.

I simply fail to understand the attraction of "sea salt."

That is because all salt (used for culinary purposes) is
"sea salt."

That's where it comes from.

As far as I am aware, the only difference between "sea salt"
and the salt mined from under the earth is the era when its
water was removed leaving the crystals.

Beyond that, the oceans have been used as sewers for
millennia...

Why would one avoid the vastly cleaner, and far less costly,
mined salt in favor of its "sea salt" cousin?

Again, this is not intended as a criticism, I am genuinely
curious.

Sincere thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Mar 17, 6:52 pm, Kenneth wrote:

Why would one avoid the vastly cleaner, and far less costly,
mined salt in favor of its "sea salt" cousin?

Kenneth,

Why does a bottle of nouveaux sell for the same as a Fleurie? :-)

OT:

why celtic sea salt and not regular refined table salt.

I prefer using products that are less refined and without lots of
added stuff. I think the mineral content is better or more useful
than that of refined salt. Just google the benefits...we all make our
own decisions about these things. I read labels...for example, I try
to avoid partially hydrogenated oil...when you read labels you see
that it is in lots of products in the grocery stores...at least it is
in the U.S.. I am sure I get plenty of regular table salt when I eat
at restaurants. When I have a choice at home I choose to use the more
naturals salts. I used kosher salt for many years before switching to
the salts I currently use.

"Traditional table salt has been treated with various chemicals and
refined, removing and destroying any natural minerals and nutrients it
once contained. Bleaching and anti-caking agents are added mainly for
the purpose of creating a cleaner looking, free-flowing crystal, but
in actuality the result is something rather toxic."

"The salt that you find in table salt and most processed foods is
sodium chloride. Salt in this form has been processed at high
temperatures, which changes the molecular structure and removes vital
minerals from the salt. Table salt also contains additives, anticaking
agents, and even sugar. Excess salt consumption is associated with
high blood pressure, fluid retention, heart and kidney disease."

If you think it is a lot of bunk to try and eat more natural products
that are less refined then that is your choice. I want to avoid
pharmaceuticals as long as possible...I'd rather try to keep improving
my diet and remain active. I am slim and pretty healthy, lots of
folks are very overweight and rather unhealthy...I don't drink soft
drinks/soda, I don't frequent fast food restaurants....I have friends
that don't watch what they eat and they are on multiple meds...they
are younger than me. I prefer homemade rather that packaged or fast
foods...you get the idea...I do take some supplements too...like cod
liver oil or fish oil, B Complex, CO Q 10 Curcumin, Milk
Thistle...etc. too.... but I am not fanatical.

Maybe I am just gullible and all of it doesn't make that much
difference. Maybe I am more aware of the importance of a good diet
and exercise because of just genetics...my mom died of colon cancer at
52 as did my father though he was 86...

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:41:37 -0700 (PDT), Trix
wrote:

If you think it is a lot of bunk to try and eat more natural products
that are less refined then that is your choice.

Hi again,

I do believe that there is some "bunk" with regard to the
salt issue, but it may not be what you are mentioning.

Indeed, many "unrefined" products are better, but what is
this "refining" you believe is done with salt?

It is my understanding that they, in essence, scoop it up,
and put it in the box.

Perhaps I am wrong, but might you tell me more about why you
believe that beneficial things are removed (or refined) from
salt?

Thanks again,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

OT: Salt con't
refined salt:
http://www.cargillsalt.com/dc_salt_about_howmade.htm
http://www.refinediodisedsaltplant.com/solutions.html
(both manufacture/sells refined salt)

http://www.healthfree.com/celtic_sea_salt.html
(Note: site also sells sea salt)

http://www.celticseasalt.com/About_C...rand_W48C3.cfm
(Note: site sells sea salt)

Basically, I believe that there are benefits from using celtic sea
salt or himalayan pink salt over refined. I think those salts are in
a more usable, natural form, higher in minerals and the elements our
bodies should be getting from salt. I am not a biologist/
scientist...etc...so I don't have any info aside from stuff I've read
about that makes sense to me...right or wrong...I don't claim to know
it all.

Refined salt certainly is not just scooped up and put in a box.
To each his own.

It is kind of like why I prefer to use sourdough starter as opposed to
always just using commercial yeast.
It isn't just for the flavor...which I enjoy...but for other benefits
as well.

On Mar 16, 10:39*pm, Trix wrote:
So, vince,

Can you achieve similar results as the second photo at home? *

kind of: http://picasaweb.google.com/cacaprou...56036962169794

these were with a pizza stone. But I still think the best for crust is
a pot. With a tight seal the bread keeps its steam inside.
I've never tried with foil so I can't say really.

For temperature I'll bake most stuff around 250C I think that's the
perfect temperature for most bread. Probably load at 250 and drop it
to 230C later.

But it depends how much colour/crust thickness people want on their
bread. I like a hotter oven for sticks because I want thin crust and
nice colour. Lower temperature for Big loaves where I want thick crust.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:51:57 -0700 (PDT), Trix
wrote:

OT: Salt con't
refined salt:
http://www.cargillsalt.com/dc_salt_about_howmade.htm
http://www.refinediodisedsaltplant.com/solutions.html
(both manufacture/sells refined salt)

Hi Lucy,

I did not read all the links that you provided, but I did
read the first two with care...

You might want to read them again.

It appears to me that they each describe the process of
removing water from the salt.

Is that what is of concern?

Thanks again,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."