"Mike Romain" wrote in message ng.com...

[ ... ]

I will have to try a long rise like that next time just to see what I
get, it looks interesting.

The long rise does not work for everybody. Usually the rise poops
out before the sourdough flavors fully develop. Then folks go around
mumbling about overproofedness, whatever that may mean, probably
that the loaf quit holding gas.

Dick Adams wrote:
"Mike Romain" wrote in message ng.com...

[ ... ]

I will have to try a long rise like that next time just to see what I
get, it looks interesting.

The long rise does not work for everybody. Usually the rise poops
out before the sourdough flavors fully develop. Then folks go around
mumbling about overproofedness, whatever that may mean, probably
that the loaf quit holding gas.


Might I ask what the ingredients are and how much kneading if any it got?

I have my 'mother' batch out going for a warm up/wake up grow to make a
bud for more bread tomorrow and would like to try something new.

Mike

"Mike Romain" wrote in message ng.com...

Might I ask what the ingredients are and how much kneading if any it got?

I may have mentioned previously
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...ctions_Rev.doc
During these cold months, when part of the rise is overnight at setback
temperature, the rises are longer than shown.

I have my 'mother' batch out going for a warm up/wake up grow to make a
bud for more bread tomorrow and would like to try something new.

If you make it partly your way, and a little bit my way, you will not get the
results I do. I can guarantee that. One thing to notice is that I am using
bromated flour. In the east we do not get such lovely flour as can be got in
the plains states. My experience with the flours I can get locally is that no
other bread flour works as well as GM All Trumps(50111), including Sir
Lancelot.

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:

I may have mentioned previously
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...ctions_Rev.doc


Thanks, I will try that long rise method later this week. My 'market'
asked for white bread this batch when they got home last night.

I am in Canada so we have different brands of flours up here than you
do. Bromated flour has been illegal since 1994 up here. I use Five
Roses Brand unbleached 'all purpose' flour with a 13.3% protein count.
From what I have read and from what has been posted here, that is
'strong' flour or higher gluten flour than a common 'all purpose' flour.
Five Roses state about their 'all purpose' flour: This flour is also
known as bread flour.

I have also read that the addition of potassium bromate is added to
flour to increase the 'gluten effect' or to strengthen the dough to
allow higher rises.

It will be interesting to see how well the five roses holds up to the
long grow. It certainly will allow a 5x increase when I do long grows
with the starter alone, so...

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

But, heck, I guess that nOObies with a lot of dumb luck can get away with
a lot of stuff that would not ever work for me.

Speaking of which, yesterday I had some potato water and potato pieces
after boiling 5 russets (skin on, if that matters). NOOb curiosity
plus a hunger for something sour prompted me to experiment. I hit the
potato water (plus pieces) with an immersion blender, added 200g of my
rye starter (I fed it the prior day with 50g ea water and rye, so I
guess that counts as 100g of starter), two teaspoons of sugar (I never
do this, but I wanted to give my boys every chance possible to
prosper), and set it by the oven light for 18 hours or so. It was
bubbly as heck this morning, so I made my dough with KA bread flour
and water, let the mixer dough hook have some fun, then let it rise. I
did the usual rise-punch-rise, though the second rise took place
during Easter dinner at my parents, so it was a little over-risen. I
used the cast iron pot method, but in my haste forgot to slash so I
had a little blow out.
The bread turned out better than I expected. Sour and chewy, the way I
like it. Here's a photo (sorry for the quality - I used my cell
phone):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattandvicki/2356840502/
Matt

Matt Fitz wrote:
[..]
The bread turned out better than I expected. Sour and chewy, the way I
like it. Here's a photo (sorry for the quality - I used my cell
phone):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattandvicki/2356840502/

Crust looks pale - if it's not the camera, would indicate
over-fermenting: no more sugar left for browning.
Sour taste could also be an indication.

What is in potato water? Starches and sugars - and in flour? Not sure
if the critters care at all where it's coming from.

Sam

In article
mailman.3.1206330384.4061.rec.food.sourdough@www. mountainbitwarrior.com
, says...


What is in potato water? Starches and sugars - and in flour? Not sure
if the critters care at all where it's coming from.

Many people feel potato water gives yeasted wheat bread extra texture
and taste. Never tried it with yeast or sourdough, so I can't comment
on the theory. I have made breads with instant potato flakes, mashed
potatoes, and baked potatoes. (No bread contained all of those.)

I thought they were OK, but not stellar. Some customers went wild over
them though.... and my basic theory is the customer is always right, at
least until he's out of ear shot.

Mike

Hi Mike,

It doesn't take much to make us choose what someone else wants us too,
even less to get us explain why we made the best choice. : -) We think
we're so independent. lol.

Jim



On 24 Mar, 04:15, Mike Avery wrote:
...
I thought they were OK, but not stellar. *Some customers went wild over
them though.... and my basic theory is the customer is always right, at
least until he's out of ear shot.

Mike

Crust looks pale - if it's not the camera, would indicate
over-fermenting: no more sugar left for browning.
Sour taste could also be an indication.


I think lighting is making it very pale. I have LED lights under my
cabinets - very white light. But the crust is a little paler than
normal because I waited too long to take the lid off the pot during
baking, and the blow out probably made it a bit more moist in there.
And I'm not ruling out a little over-fermenting, but I really like the
way it tastes.

What is in potato water? Starches and sugars - and in flour? Not sure
if the critters care at all where it's coming from.

Next time I'll omit the sugar and see if the results hold.

Matt

Dick Adams wrote:
"Mike Romain" wrote in message ng.com...

Might I ask what the ingredients are and how much kneading if any it got?

I may have mentioned previously
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...ctions_Rev.doc
During these cold months, when part of the rise is overnight at setback
temperature, the rises are longer than shown.

So I decided to go for those instructions to the point of hand mixing
and kneading instead of a mixer.

My first attempt was going OK until I got impatient and well, I
pasteurized the sucker. :-(

So when I figured out I had white soup instead of dough last night, I
just whipped up some conventional yeast Apple Cinnamon buns and a
'butter top' loaf to have ready for when my wife got off work at
midnight. They turned out nice. 3 photos he
http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

I am now in hour 16 of a remake of Dick's instructions and so far they
have worked out as advertised. I am getting a nice 3X grow at the rate
estimated by Dick.

I did find the last mix didn't take all of the called for 6 cups of
flour, but it kneaded up really nice so I didn't want to force the last
1/2 cup in. I hope it will hold the rise, I will see. I stirred it wet
until the spoon wouldn't cut through it anymore, then hand finished it.
That was a bit of a workout, but hey I can use it.

I can see the theory behind the feeding amounts so the critters don't
run out of food and long timing and hope it works for me and my homemade
starter.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

Well, I don't know where to start. To say I am impressed by Dick Adams'
Billowy Sourdough Loaves © Instructions would be a great understatement.

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...ctions_Rev.doc

I must take my hat off and bow to the Master!

That has to be 'The' best bread I have ever baked.

It worked out pretty much exact as advertised for timing the grows by a
3X volume so my bread went into the cold oven at hour 23-24.

I got the 5X loaf grow with about a .25 volume oven bounce still after a
6 hour last rise. Impressive.

The crumb is well, 'Billowy' would be a good word with a real nice sour
bite to it. Super soft! Totally sour! I have never even come close
using only the 3 basic ingredients before.

This stuff is so soft my new and very sharp bread knife still won't cut
through it easy today, 12 hours cold! I use this knife for the raw
dough slashes, so you know how sharp it is...

I used Five Roses brand unbleached 'all purpose' or 'bread' flour with
it's 13.3% protein count and 'boiled and set-a-while open' (24+ hours)
tap water and table salt.

My only mixer is my right arm instead of a machine mixer so I made the
mix wet (3.5 cups flour) to start and stirred it aggressively with a
wooden spoon until the gluten came up and the spoon wouldn't stir it
anymore. (or my arm wouldn't) likely 5 minutes. I then mixed in enough
flour to keep it balled up and 'softly' hand kneaded in the last of the
flour. I 'was' a little light on the flour, I didn't work in the last
1/2 to 3/4 cup so expected a loaf that might spread a bit.

I got around too much spread by putting a 9" spring-form pan rim,
greased and dusted with cornmeal, around the big loaf and a cover on
that to prevent drying during the long rise. I removed this before baking.

My smaller loaf held it's oval quite fine though so I don't know that I
'needed' the rim containment.

My pans are greased and dusted with cornmeal.

I might make different shapes next time, but I got exactly what I aimed
for this time.

I also made too much of this starter with the intent of a SD Pizza.
Once again, I take my hat off to Dick, the crust is just something else.
So light and airy and sour. Yes, the 'sour' comes through 'very'
well. Even my wife, when she got off work at 11 and had a just had a
'nibble', got into it 'and' went back for more , and she doesn't
normally eat Pizza.

I have put up the photos he http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

Thanks again Dick, for a grumpy old fart, you 'sure' do make good bread.
;-) (grin)

Mike


What have you folks baked lately?

Mike

On Mar 28, 11:39 am, Mike Romain wrote:

Thanks again Dick, for a grumpy old fart, you 'sure' do make good bread.

Does this mean that you have finally graduated from "Joy of Cooking"?

If so... Dick's patience was worth it. :-)

Will wrote:
On Mar 28, 11:39 am, Mike Romain wrote:

Thanks again Dick, for a grumpy old fart, you 'sure' do make good bread.

Does this mean that you have finally graduated from "Joy of Cooking"?

If so... Dick's patience was worth it. :-)


LOL! Naw, I still used their pizza dough recipe... Basically just
adding 2 tbsp of oil to the final mix. I am open for trying a new one,
anyone?

As far as bread goes though... Yup, there sure are better recipes out there.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

G'day Mike & all;

"Mike Romain" wrote in message
g.com...
....
LOL! Naw, I still used their pizza dough recipe... Basically just adding
2 tbsp of oil to the final mix. I am open for trying a new one, anyone?
Here's the one I use, enjoy!
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...eads/Pizza.htm

FWIW; I too have made Dickey's bread. It is indeed a light, fluffy loaf,
and a joy to make. I made a copy of his recipe...just in case...(:-o)!
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...rdough/BSD.htm

I'd make it more often, but I'm a fan of the heartier, darker 'farm' or
'country style' breads like this one:
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br.../provender.htm. So I
don't get to make Dickey's bread all that often.


L8r all,
Dusty


As far as bread goes though... Yup, there sure are better recipes out
there.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com

Dusty da baker wrote:

I'd make it more often, but I'm a fan of the heartier, darker 'farm' or
'country style' breads like this one:
http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br.../provender.htm. So I
don't get to make Dickey's bread all that often.

Thanks for the recipes. I will try some.

I am a real fan of the light and fluffy crusty loaf so will likely make
this type more than the others. My 'market' likes variety and the heavy
loaf so I will still make the heavier loaves as well as plain white
bread with commercial yeast.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com