Sam wrote:
Brian Mailman wrote:
Sarah wrote:


Well, I just wanted to try it....but do you really think that there
would be no difference between two breads made with two different
types of starter (rye, spelt, whole wheat, etc.)?


Take your starter and feed it spelt when you're in the beginning
building stages. Voila, a spelt starter.

Take the same starter and feed it rye when you want to make rye bread.
Presto-Chango, it's a rye starter.


That's a great concept - you should get a patent on it and then maybe
approach those guys:

http://www.sauerteig.de/site/index_e...d_liste_en.htm

and tell them how they could expand their sourdough product variety
with little effort, just using different flour and - viola!

Don't think so.... the viola players aren't the most respected members
of an orchestra::
http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/jokes/viola.html

B/

In article
mailman.35.1199766061.4119.rec.food.sourdough@www .mountainbitwarrior.co
m, says...
Brian Mailman wrote:
Sarah wrote:


Take your starter and feed it spelt when you're in the beginning
building stages. Voila, a spelt starter.

Take the same starter and feed it rye when you want to make rye bread.
Presto-Chango, it's a rye starter.


That's a great concept - you should get a patent on it and then maybe
approach those guys:

http://www.sauerteig.de/site/index_e...d_liste_en.htm

and tell them how they could expand their sourdough product variety
with little effort, just using different flour and - viola!

Having had a number of starters, I find how a starter is handled, and
what it is fed, seems to make more difference in the final results than
the actual strains of yeast and bacteria in the starter.

Actually, looking at their web page, I have no way of knowing that
sauerteig.de isn't just changing the way their starter is fed and re-
packaging it.

Mike

Mike Avery wrote:
[...]
Having had a number of starters, I find how a starter is handled, and
what it is fed, seems to make more difference in the final results than
the actual strains of yeast and bacteria in the starter.

Actually, looking at their web page, I have no way of knowing that
sauerteig.de isn't just changing the way their starter is fed and re-
packaging it.


If you look at their product line from a consistency: dry, paste,
liquid, frozen - my guess is that the starters are optimized at least on
that aspect.

With the other's - which flour type or whatever they give their starters
to eat - no clue.

There was another vendor around but I could not find their web site.
They also had wheat and rye starters in different varieties and gave
recipes for each.

It would make sense that a particular starter is optimized for a certain
grain and the critters are used to it.

Interestingly, their DE web content differs a lot from EN, which has no:

http://www.sauerteig.de/site/index_d.../rezepte_d.htm

There it's Service & Rezepte - Rezepte - their pages are dynamically
served - don't have a fixed URL

and, look there - they got a spelt (DE: Dinkel) starter!

Their Boecker Reinzucht (rye) starter is confirmed stable with the same
critters growing for something like 50 years or so.

Does it all matter to my baking - pfff!


Sam

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:47:10 -0800, Brian Mailman
wrote:

and tell them how they could expand their sourdough product variety
with little effort, just using different flour and - viola!

Don't think so.... the viola players aren't the most respected members
of an orchestra::


Hi Brian,

Typo aside, the point (as I suspect you well understand) is
that taking a wheat starter, and feeding it rye to produce a
"rye starter" as you have suggested is not the simple matter
you tried to convey to the OP.

Would the critters grow successfully?

Well, probably.

Would those be the same critters that would have grown were
the starter few with rye at the outset?

That, I don't know.

Do you?

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 7 Jan, 18:43, Kenneth wrote:


Sam wrote to Sarah earlier in this thread:
..
All the best,
--
Kenneth

....

Mea Culpa. I scanned his first comment but not the rest.

Jim

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:49:23 -0500, Kenneth
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:47:10 -0800, Brian Mailman
wrote:

Would those be the same critters that would have grown were
the starter few with rye at the outset?

That, I don't know.

Do you?

All the best,

Ooops, that should have been "fed" with rye...

'Sorry,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:47:10 -0800, Brian Mailman
wrote:


and tell them how they could expand their sourdough product variety
with little effort, just using different flour and - viola!

Don't think so.... the viola players aren't the most respected members
of an orchestra::



Hi Brian,

Typo aside, the point (as I suspect you well understand) is
that taking a wheat starter, and feeding it rye to produce a
"rye starter" as you have suggested is not the simple matter
you tried to convey to the OP.

Would the critters grow successfully?

Well, probably.

Would those be the same critters that would have grown were
the starter few with rye at the outset?

That, I don't know.

Do you?

Hello Kenneth,

Let's assume, they do and the same dominant critters keep growing.

In Brian's example - going from a white (refined) flour starter and grow
it on less refined (rye/wheat/spelt...) flour will have affect on the
starter's performance and possibly ratios of organisms growing.

There are more minerals in less refined flours which increases the
buffering capacity (absorbing acid) and allows/forces the organisms to
grow differently.
The other aspect of higher ash content (more minerals) is that there are
more trace elements for the organisms available and their fermentation
"output" will be different.

One can be sure that taste of the bread will be affected. If it is
noticeable for a home baker doing it one weekend with one flour, the
next weekend with another flour and notices: "it works!" is questionable.

Also, "porting" a starter from one type of flour to another type of
flour (with everything else staying the same - temperature, hydration,
time), how long will it take to change and become stable again - 1, 2,
5, 10 or more refreshments?

So - Brian, you are right, there is no viola effect when changing the
starter flour - you just don't notice the change with what you are doing.

Sam

Kenneth wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:47:10 -0800, Brian Mailman
wrote:

and tell them how they could expand their sourdough product variety
with little effort, just using different flour and - viola!

Don't think so.... the viola players aren't the most respected members
of an orchestra::


Hi Brian,

Typo aside, the point (as I suspect you well understand) is
that taking a wheat starter, and feeding it rye to produce a
"rye starter" as you have suggested is not the simple matter
you tried to convey to the OP.

Would the critters grow successfully?

Well, I'm not one of the ones that make something complicated in order
to bamboozle the noobs--and I certainly don't have the equipment needed
to do it.

You tell me.

B/

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:41:57 -0800, Brian Mailman
wrote:

Typo aside, the point (as I suspect you well understand) is
that taking a wheat starter, and feeding it rye to produce a
"rye starter" as you have suggested is not the simple matter
you tried to convey to the OP.

Would the critters grow successfully?

Well, probably.

Would those be the same critters that would have grown were
the starter few with rye at the outset?

That, I don't know.

Do you?

Well, I'm not one of the ones that make something complicated in order
to bamboozle the noobs--and I certainly don't have the equipment needed
to do it.

You tell me.

B/

Hi Brian,

I thought that earlier in the thread you responded to
Sarah with:

"Take your starter and feed it spelt when you're in the
beginning building stages. Voila, a spelt starter.

Take the same starter and feed it rye when you want to make
rye bread. Presto-Chango, it's a rye starter.

B/"

If so, my comments apply.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:41:57 -0800, Brian Mailman
wrote:

Typo aside, the point (as I suspect you well understand) is
that taking a wheat starter, and feeding it rye to produce a
"rye starter" as you have suggested is not the simple matter
you tried to convey to the OP.

Would the critters grow successfully?

Well, probably.

Would those be the same critters that would have grown were
the starter few with rye at the outset?

That, I don't know.

Do you?

Well, I'm not one of the ones that make something complicated in order
to bamboozle the noobs--and I certainly don't have the equipment needed
to do it.

You tell me.

Hi Brian,

I thought that earlier in the thread you responded to
Sarah with:

"Take your starter and feed it spelt when you're in the
beginning building stages. Voila, a spelt starter.

Take the same starter and feed it rye when you want to make
rye bread. Presto-Chango, it's a rye starter.

Why, yes... I did.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:
Kenneth wrote:

Hi Brian,

I thought that earlier in the thread you responded to Sarah with:

"Take your starter and feed it spelt when you're in the
beginning building stages. Voila, a spelt starter.

Take the same starter and feed it rye when you want to make
rye bread. Presto-Chango, it's a rye starter.

Why, yes... I did.

B/

I use your method Brian and it works very well for me.

Mike

Mike Romain wrote:
Brian Mailman wrote:
Kenneth wrote:

Hi Brian,

I thought that earlier in the thread you responded to Sarah with:

"Take your starter and feed it spelt when you're in the
beginning building stages. Voila, a spelt starter.

Take the same starter and feed it rye when you want to make
rye bread. Presto-Chango, it's a rye starter.

Why, yes... I did.

I use your method Brian and it works very well for me.

I have few pretensions of being a professional baker.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:
Mike Romain wrote:
Brian Mailman wrote:
Kenneth wrote:

Hi Brian,

I thought that earlier in the thread you responded to Sarah with:

"Take your starter and feed it spelt when you're in the
beginning building stages. Voila, a spelt starter.

Take the same starter and feed it rye when you want to make
rye bread. Presto-Chango, it's a rye starter.

Why, yes... I did.

I use your method Brian and it works very well for me.

I have few pretensions of being a professional baker.

B/
Me either, I just like to keep my 'market' happy and that does it.

Mike
Some bread photos: http://www.mikeromain.shutterfly.com