"graham" wrote in message
news:f5DOi.3888$th2.3714@pd7urf3no...

"Dee Dee" wrote in message
...

"graham" wrote in message
news:PTwOi.3652$Da.3185@pd7urf1no...

"Barry Harmon" wrote in message
6.158...
"Arek Niski" wrote in
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They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60%
dough
is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.

The drive mechanism is a belt drive. The sales pitch says it doesn't
fail. I don't know if that's real or not. I've been around a lot of
machinery for a long time and I've seen belts stretch, slip, fray,
split, etc.

Just two random thoughts.

I have one and the capacity is large. I've never gone to the extreme
but in kneading 2-3kg batches, the motor barely gets warm and shows no
sign of strain while operating.
My only complaint is the design of the standard issue plastic bowl. The
dough creeps up the central pillar and gets into it. The SS bowl
doesn't have that and uses a different paddle system. The SS bowl is on
my list to buy after I have bought enough 2004 Bordeaux{:-)
Graham


Why 2004 and not 2005?
Or were you just jesting?
Dee Dee
The 2004s have only been released recently. The 2005s will not be
available until next fall and their prices will be out of sight.
Graham
I've noticed that they are selling (Pre-arrival) Bordeaux 2005 on several
sites. It shows actual bottles on hand and for how much is for sale.
The vintage year for 2004 is in the 82-88 points range, whereas 2005 is in
the 95-98 point range.
I would wait. Save your money.

Are you posting to the wine newsgroup, I see a Graham on there ever so
often. I'm the dumb one that is accused of drinking Charles Shaw when I say
I don't like something, or asking a question that they can get off on
pontificating. Good group, tho.
Dee Dee

"Dee Dee" wrote in message
...

"graham" wrote in message
news:f5DOi.3888$th2.3714@pd7urf3no...

"Dee Dee" wrote in message
...

"graham" wrote in message
news:PTwOi.3652$Da.3185@pd7urf1no...

"Barry Harmon" wrote in message
6.158...
"Arek Niski" wrote in
news:yfiOi.2076$th2.370@pd7urf3no:



They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60%
dough
is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.

The drive mechanism is a belt drive. The sales pitch says it doesn't
fail. I don't know if that's real or not. I've been around a lot of
machinery for a long time and I've seen belts stretch, slip, fray,
split, etc.

Just two random thoughts.

I have one and the capacity is large. I've never gone to the extreme
but in kneading 2-3kg batches, the motor barely gets warm and shows no
sign of strain while operating.
My only complaint is the design of the standard issue plastic bowl.
The dough creeps up the central pillar and gets into it. The SS bowl
doesn't have that and uses a different paddle system. The SS bowl is
on my list to buy after I have bought enough 2004 Bordeaux{:-)
Graham


Why 2004 and not 2005?
Or were you just jesting?
Dee Dee
The 2004s have only been released recently. The 2005s will not be
available until next fall and their prices will be out of sight.
Graham
I've noticed that they are selling (Pre-arrival) Bordeaux 2005 on several
sites. It shows actual bottles on hand and for how much is for sale.

Probably what they have ordered or have been allocated.

The vintage year for 2004 is in the 82-88 points range, whereas 2005 is in
the 95-98 point range.

There are lots of wines in the 90s for 2004. It was a decent year but is
overshadowed by 2005 which some are saying is the best for 50 years (or
similar hyperbole).

I would wait. Save your money.

It's a bit late for that{:-)


Are you posting to the wine newsgroup, I see a Graham on there ever so
often. I'm the dumb one that is accused of drinking Charles Shaw when I
say I don't like something, or asking a question that they can get off on
pontificating. Good group, tho.

Yes, I post occasionally but am a bit intimidated by the regular clique.
Their apparent drinking and eating habits must mean that they have severe
weight problems. They also seem to have a lot of disposable income.
However, they can be very helpful.
Graham

in article PTwOi.3652$Da.3185@pd7urf1no, graham at wrote on
07/10/08 14:00:

They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60% dough
is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.

If the bowl were filled to the brim with dough it would be about 12 pounds
but totally impractical. About 3.8 pounds of dough is a practical amount
for a 6 quart bowl.

B

Bill wrote:
If the bowl were filled to the brim with dough it would be about 12 pounds
but totally impractical. About 3.8 pounds of dough is a practical amount
for a 6 quart bowl.

IMO, it very much depends on the mix/knead mechanism and hydration. My
Magic Mill bowl holds 7 l and I can mix over 4000 g of regular bread
dough (40/60 rye/white mix). If I use more or close to 4000 g, it's
pushing it in regards to overflow and I have to be careful how I load
the flour. But it's possible.

I think you may derive your numbers and practical amount estimates from
a KA type planetary mixer.

Your practical amount of 3.8 lbs is 1.73 kg and that's about 1/2 of my
regular loads of 3.2 - 3.5 kg which are practical with the Magic Mill I
have.

With higher hydration and coarse flour dough (Pumpernickel), I mixed
over 5000 g dough which was not dramatic in any way - that's 11 lbs and
I think, I can push it 1 lb more so....

Also, I am not sure, how they measure bowl size - I filled in 7 l of
water and it was full to the brim. Maybe it's a 6 l bowl - 1 l beer
stones have a mark at 1 l and can hold about 1" more.

Sam

Hi Arek,

Try the UPS store. We can get an address across the river for $5 per
delivery. Then we just have to pop over and pick it up.

Debbie

Is it PO Box or "regular" address.Many of US web stores will not send
anything to the PO Boxes. And there is also payment problem. What I have red
is that automatic check for address will not work on Canadian credit cards
on the US side.

"Mike Avery" wrote in message
news:mailman.4.1191878060.79045.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
According to the KitchenAid web site, the Pro 600 is rated as having a
"flour power" of 14 cups. However, if you look carefully at the site,
you'll find that is for white flour. If you use whole grain flour, you
will have to cut that rating in half.

This is correct. I downloaded a manual for KA Pro 600. It explicitly says
one can use only 8 cups of whole flour and I do not use any white flour. So
it looks like KA is out.


As Samartha said, the current generation of KitchenAid mixers have an
unenviable reputation. If given one, I would sell it on eBay at once.
And I am a happy KA45SS owner, but I bought mine in 1978.

Having used a Bosch Universal, I don't recommend them either. It was
flimsily made, especially the bowl and the beaters. I felt it heated
dough to much. I sold mine on eBay. That said, I know many people are
happy with them. I just wasn't one of them.

Some people described a problem with a lid poping out bacause of the bowl
deformation under the stress from mixing havy dough. I checked some demo
movie how this mixer works. A host advised not to measure flour. Just keep
adding it and at the right proportion dough will start to form properly.
What then happens when somone wants to make wet dough (like for ciabata) or
stiff one (for free form fermentation)? Does it mean no proper kneading
action on this mixer? What I took for granted with my 2LBs bread machine
mixer that no matter how slack or stiff dough I made it could always get me
to the point I could finish dough by hand with an ease.

I recently bought an Electrolux DLX mixer, formerly sold as a Magic Mill.
I find it a delight to use, and recommend it highly. However, it may not
fall in your $400 limit. Personally, I'd spend the extra money. A friend
of mine who also owns a DLX wanted a second mixer and decided to get a
Bosch to save money. Two days later, her Bosch was on eBay and she was
ordering a second DLX.

Would the DLX be beneficial for kneading 100% dark rye bread as well? Little
pricey tho'.

Good luck,
Mike


--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith
A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
Elvis isn't dead he's waiting for COMPSURF to finish!

"Mike Avery" wrote in message
news:mailman.5.1191879145.79045.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
Mike Avery wrote:

I recently bought an Electrolux DLX mixer, formerly sold as a Magic Mill.
I find it a delight to use, and recommend it highly. However, it may not
fall in your $400 limit. Personally, I'd spend the extra money. A
friend of mine who also owns a DLX wanted a second mixer and decided to
get a Bosch to save money. Two days later, her Bosch was on eBay and she
was ordering a second DLX.

Since there has been discussion of mixer capacity, I'll throw this in.
The DLX was just upgraded to have a 700 watt motor. This is the model I
have. I have used it to make batches of 18 bagels, which is about 2,300
grams of VERY tough dough. The mixer did not complain. I routinely mix
sourdough starter in it - up to 6,000 grams at a time. However, the
starter is a very easy thing to mix, since it is more of a batter than a
dough.

I've made up to 4,000 grams of white sandwich bread (around 65% hydration)
at a time, with no problems.

Just to play devil's advocate here, have you considered not using a mixer?
I usually don't use my mixers, except to make starters, or when I am doing
test bakes. Instead I use a stretch and fold technique I have found to be
very easy. I have scaled the technique to do as few as 1 loaf or as many
as 26 1.5lb loaves of bread at a time with no real problems. At the upper
end, that is about 20,020 grams of dough before baking. I describe the
technique at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/stretchandfold.html

It works with wet or dry doughs, with white flour or whole wheat. I don't
recommend it for doughs with high concentrations of rye flour - say about
30% or so.

I do not make any bread with less than 50% rye. I oryginaly am a Northen
European and any bread with less than half rye won't satisfy my taste buds




Have fun,
Mike

--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith
Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Grandpa's
Out with
Junior's date
Old technique
With brand new bait
Burma-Shave

"Barry Harmon" wrote in message
6.158...
"Arek Niski" wrote in
news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:

Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
one.



I was just in Macy's. They had stacks of the KA Pro 600 on sale for
US$399.99. Are there Macy's stores out there?

Barry

Yes, very close to a Target store (at the same mall). Thanks.

"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...

"Barry Harmon" wrote in message
6.158...
"Arek Niski" wrote in
news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:

Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
one.



I was just in Macy's. They had stacks of the KA Pro 600 on sale for
US$399.99. Are there Macy's stores out there?

Barry

There are a whole bunch of "bed bath and beyond" stores in washington,
including this one

Vancouver Plaza Store #216
7809-B Vancouver Plaza Drive, Unit 200
Vancouver, WA 98662
(360) 882-7124
Store Hours*:
Monday-Friday: 9:00am - 9:00pm
Saturday: 9:00am - 9:00pm
Sunday: 10:00am - 7:00pm


View a map of this store. Get Point-to-Point driving directions.

I presume vancouver washington is near vancouver BC.

That is correct, about 300 miles distance.


Otherwise see
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/bedb...Search=WA&BTS=

Mike Avery wrote:


Just to play devil's advocate here, have you considered not using a
mixer? I usually don't use my mixers, except to make starters, or when
I am doing test bakes. Instead I use a stretch and fold technique I
have found to be very easy. I have scaled the technique to do as few as
1 loaf or as many as 26 1.5lb loaves of bread at a time with no real
problems. At the upper end, that is about 20,020 grams of dough before
baking. I describe the technique at
http://www.sourdoughhome.com/stretchandfold.html

Have fun,
Mike

How large of oven does it take to bake 26 x 1.5lb loaves
Do you bake all 26 at one time?
If not do the other loaves over_proof while waiting to be bake?

Joe Umstead

Mike Avery wrote:


Ahhh.... no real comparison. The Hobart was a 30 quart mixer, I think
it was an A-300, and I could do about 21 or 22 loaves at a time for
"normal" hydration dough, and there wasn't much of a loss of capacity
when I did whole grain breads. As you can imagine, it was large and
heavy. One person could not lift it, and could move it by sliding it or
using a dolly. Not a good comparison to a KitchenAid, Bosch or
Electrolux. The Hobart was a commercial grade machine, the others are
home grade machines. The Electrolux can do about 5 or 6 loaves that size.


Mike


I have a Berkel Mixer Model BX-20 which is a 20 ouart mixer which they say
can mix 15lbs. @ 66% AR. I never mix that much dought as my oven can not
hold that much. Have mix 4500 gr. and never miss a beat. Pricy throw.

Joe Umstead

Joe Umstead wrote:
How large of oven does it take to bake 26 x 1.5lb loaves
Do you bake all 26 at one time?
If not do the other loaves over_proof while waiting to be bake?

I have two ovens at my disposal. One is an ancient Wolf convection oven
(I do NOT recommend convection ovens for bread, but it's what I have)
that can hold three sheet pans, each of which can have 3 loaves on it.
I also have an ancient Southbend range/oven that can handle one more pan
of 3 loaves.

All told, I can bake 12 loaves at a time, or about 24 loaves per hour.
The half-hour of additional wait is well within the tolerance of the
breads I am making.

Best wishes,
Mike


--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
It said "Insert disk #3", but only two will fit!!

"

I presume vancouver washington is near vancouver BC.

That is correct, about 300 miles distance.




Just across the river from the People's Republic of Portland. :-)

This could get interesting. Newark NJ as a neighbor of Newark DE, Boston
MA in the Boston Mountains, Portland Me and Portland OR as neighbors, Oh
Boy!

Barry

Arek Niski wrote:
Would the DLX be beneficial for kneading 100% dark rye bread as well? Little
pricey tho'.


made it - DLX does not care what you put in the bowl - although I found
with the pumpernickle (coarse, higher hydration) - 100 % rye, the
"roller" works better than the dough hook.
Sam

Hey, check out www.Amazon.com for Kitchenaid Pro 600. There
you can get decals for your fancyass mixer to make it look like a
classic retro hot-rod.