I was wondering if anyone has tried Kenneth's infamous poilane recipe
with "high extraction flour" like the original? The bakery site says
they use 85% extraction and about 30% spelt. I notice Glezer says you
can get something like that if you run coarse whole wheat through your
"finest sieve". (Couldn't you alternatively add germ and some of the
bran to white flour and get the same?)

On 2007-09-25, Jonathan Kandell wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has tried Kenneth's infamous poilane recipe
with "high extraction flour" like the original? The bakery site says
they use 85% extraction and about 30% spelt. I notice Glezer says you
can get something like that if you run coarse whole wheat through your
"finest sieve". (Couldn't you alternatively add germ and some of the
bran to white flour and get the same?)

I think the difference lies in the size of the bran particles, and
what parts of the endosperm you end up with. (The endosperm is where
the starches and gluten are, mostly.) Highly refined (patent) white
flour contains the innermost endosperm, but high-extraction flour
includes the parts of the endosperm that are just inside the bran
layer (and therefore impossible to fully separate from the bran using
standard milling technology -- I guess you could do it in a lab under
a microscope, one grain at a time). I would not be surprised if that
part of the endosperm was somewhat different than the inner parts.

But then, European wheat is a lot different than what's grown here --
even if you use the same strain of wheat, different growing conditions
will yield different characteristics. So, I don't think you can
completely duplicate what they have anyway. But sifting coarse whole
wheat or adding some germ and finely ground bran back into white flour
are both probably good enough approximations. There are a few mills
selling high-extraction flour here in the States -- but again, the
wheat is going to be subtly different anyway.

--
Randall

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:12:01 -0700, Jonathan Kandell
wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has tried Kenneth's infamous poilane recipe
with "high extraction flour" like the original? The bakery site says
they use 85% extraction and about 30% spelt. I notice Glezer says you
can get something like that if you run coarse whole wheat through your
"finest sieve". (Couldn't you alternatively add germ and some of the
bran to white flour and get the same?)

Hi Jonathan,

"Infamous" huh...?g

But back to your question:

I have tried the "ground whole wheat put through a fine
sieve" approach, but have not found the result to be any
better than the method I typically use.

(As an aside, I do find it interesting that so many books
are out there describing the Poilâne loaf as being made of
100% whole wheat. After years of experimenting with such an
approach on and off, I read an interview with Lionel Poilâne
in which he commented on feeling [partially] responsible for
the resurgence of French spelt farming. With that,
everything in my attempts changed for the better.)

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth,

Would you mind reposting the recipe or posting a direct link? I've tried
Googling to find it, but no luck.

Thanks!
--
Jeff

Kenneth wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:12:01 -0700, Jonathan Kandell
wrote:


I was wondering if anyone has tried Kenneth's infamous poilane recipe
with "high extraction flour" like the original? The bakery site says
they use 85% extraction and about 30% spelt. I notice Glezer says you
can get something like that if you run coarse whole wheat through your
"finest sieve". (Couldn't you alternatively add germ and some of the
bran to white flour and get the same?)


Hi Jonathan,

"Infamous" huh...?g

But back to your question:

I have tried the "ground whole wheat put through a fine
sieve" approach, but have not found the result to be any
better than the method I typically use.

(As an aside, I do find it interesting that so many books
are out there describing the Poilâne loaf as being made of
100% whole wheat. After years of experimenting with such an
approach on and off, I read an interview with Lionel Poilâne
in which he commented on feeling [partially] responsible for
the resurgence of French spelt farming. With that,
everything in my attempts changed for the better.)

All the best,

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:34:14 -0400, Jeff Miller
wrote:

Kenneth,

Would you mind reposting the recipe or posting a direct link? I've tried
Googling to find it, but no luck.

Thanks!

Howdy,

7:00PM Day 1: mix 200g Water + 120g starter + 236g Whole
Wheat. Ferment at 69F for 12 hours.

7:00AM day 2: add 274g Water +65g Rye + 254g AP flour + 170g
Spelt + 20g salt knead to smooth dough then refrigerate for
24 hours.

7:00AM day 3 form boule @ 69F. Proof 5 hours.

Bake 480B + 490T for 35 minutes...

I hope that you enjoy giving it a try, and would certainly
be happy to hear if you have questions about it,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Thanks! Just to clarify, is that whole rye and whole spelt, or white
spelt and dark / light rye?
--
Jeff




Kenneth wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:34:14 -0400, Jeff Miller
wrote:


Kenneth,

Would you mind reposting the recipe or posting a direct link? I've tried
Googling to find it, but no luck.

Thanks!


Howdy,

7:00PM Day 1: mix 200g Water + 120g starter + 236g Whole
Wheat. Ferment at 69F for 12 hours.

7:00AM day 2: add 274g Water +65g Rye + 254g AP flour + 170g
Spelt + 20g salt knead to smooth dough then refrigerate for
24 hours.

7:00AM day 3 form boule @ 69F. Proof 5 hours.

Bake 480B + 490T for 35 minutes...

I hope that you enjoy giving it a try, and would certainly
be happy to hear if you have questions about it,

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:13:35 -0400, Jeff Miller
wrote:

Thanks! Just to clarify, is that whole rye and whole spelt, or white
spelt and dark / light rye?

Hi Jeff,

I grind the wheat, rye, and spelt whole when I do these
breads...

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sep 25, 9:24 am, Kenneth wrote:
(As an aside, I do find it interesting that so many books
are out there describing the Poilâne loaf as being made of
100% whole wheat.

Right, me too. 30% whole spelt and 70% wheat at 85% extraction is
hardly the same as 100% whole wheat, is it!

BTW, I used your proportions of flours but made the loaf my usual way
at room temperature ferments and proof. It tasted good. There was a
slight bitterness which emerged in the loaf after a few days; I
attribute this to spelt flour not being fresh, since I bought it
preground. I've run into this problem before. The next week I tried
making my desem loaf with a 24 hour refrigeration then a 4 hour
ferment modeled after your recipe. To be honest, the flavor was more
bland than my usual room temperature ferments and rises. I still need
to try your original recipe with the refrigeration.

"Jonathan Kandell" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 25, 9:24 am, Kenneth wrote:
(As an aside, I do find it interesting that so many books
are out there describing the Poilâne loaf as being made of
100% whole wheat.

Right, me too. 30% whole spelt and 70% wheat at 85% extraction is
hardly the same as 100% whole wheat, is
it!_______________________________________________ ___________

Just to remind everyone, here is the link to the part of Poilâne's website
that mentions using 30% spelt.
http://tinyurl.com/3azrbs

Graham