I have been making sd whole wheat bread for 2 years now and I usually mix
the dough and bake the bread within a 12 hour period. Yesterday, I decided
to mix about 4 cups of flour with about 1/2 cup starter and leave for 12
hours, then mix the rest of the flour and normal ingredients this morning
and see if it made any difference in the flavor of the bread. Normally, I
see my dough take on a shiny smooth appearance after about 3 or 4 hours max
and that is with no kneading. This dough today is not smooth and still
tears when I attempt to form it into loaves. Can anyone advise as to what
is happening and why a much longer fermented dough would be less 'ready' to
shape and bake? I have not changed any ingredients from my original recipe.
John

On 2007-08-19, BigJohn jj wrote:
I have been making sd whole wheat bread for 2 years now and I usually mix
the dough and bake the bread within a 12 hour period. Yesterday, I decided
to mix about 4 cups of flour with about 1/2 cup starter and leave for 12
hours, then mix the rest of the flour and normal ingredients this morning
and see if it made any difference in the flavor of the bread. Normally, I
see my dough take on a shiny smooth appearance after about 3 or 4 hours max
and that is with no kneading. This dough today is not smooth and still
tears when I attempt to form it into loaves. Can anyone advise as to what
is happening and why a much longer fermented dough would be less 'ready' to
shape and bake? I have not changed any ingredients from my original recipe.
John


So you are doing the initial 12-hour sponge, and then adding the rest
of the ingredients and waiting another several hours, and the dough
isn't coming together as usual? That doesn't surprise me -- a lot of
acid is produced during the pre-ferment, and very acidic dough weakens
gluten. Slightly acid dough is good for gluten, but very low pH
weakens it considerably. If you want to do a two-stage dough like
this, use a much smaller amount of starter -- try a tablespoon or so
-- and keep it cool while it ferments. This will reduce the amount of
acid in your sponge.

If you meant that you are adding the rest of the flour and other
ingredients and expecting the dough to come together immediately, it
won't. The newly added flour needs time to hydrate and form gluten
bonds. Otherwise, it's just getting in the way of the existing gluten
from the sponge and tearing up those bonds.

--
Randall

Thanks for your help. That is exactly what has happened. Once I added the
additional flour I have allowed it to ferment for additional 9 hours now. I
was not attempting to get the dough to come together immediately. I think
I will stick to my old ways from now on since this did not work so smoothly.


"Randall Nortman" wrote in message
...
On 2007-08-19, BigJohn jj wrote:
I have been making sd whole wheat bread for 2 years now and I usually mix
the dough and bake the bread within a 12 hour period. Yesterday, I
decided
to mix about 4 cups of flour with about 1/2 cup starter and leave for 12
hours, then mix the rest of the flour and normal ingredients this morning
and see if it made any difference in the flavor of the bread. Normally,
I
see my dough take on a shiny smooth appearance after about 3 or 4 hours
max
and that is with no kneading. This dough today is not smooth and still
tears when I attempt to form it into loaves. Can anyone advise as to
what
is happening and why a much longer fermented dough would be less 'ready'
to
shape and bake? I have not changed any ingredients from my original
recipe.
John


So you are doing the initial 12-hour sponge, and then adding the rest
of the ingredients and waiting another several hours, and the dough
isn't coming together as usual? That doesn't surprise me -- a lot of
acid is produced during the pre-ferment, and very acidic dough weakens
gluten. Slightly acid dough is good for gluten, but very low pH
weakens it considerably. If you want to do a two-stage dough like
this, use a much smaller amount of starter -- try a tablespoon or so
-- and keep it cool while it ferments. This will reduce the amount of
acid in your sponge.

If you meant that you are adding the rest of the flour and other
ingredients and expecting the dough to come together immediately, it
won't. The newly added flour needs time to hydrate and form gluten
bonds. Otherwise, it's just getting in the way of the existing gluten
from the sponge and tearing up those bonds.

--
Randall