I just made a loaf of bread using 5 bananas simply because I had a pile of
them and needed something to do with them. I started off with 1/4 cup of
50/50 starter and let that build up in 1c of water and whole wheat flour.

A day later after stiring it down twice, I added the five bananas, 1/4 cup
of olive oil and started adding more flour and kneading, adding about 1/4
tsp of sea salt along the way.

I put it in the fridge at about 8 in the morning, had it taken out at around
2, made it into a loaf at about 6, and baked it at about 11, for an hour,
then let it dry in the stove with the temp off.

It ame out heavy and dense, but with a decent rise (~50%), and fully cooked,
but very chewy and moist. I am thinking it may be the effect of the amalayse
in the bananas. In general what is the desired effect of adding them to
breads?

--
Cliff Stamp
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus

wrote in message=20
...

[ ... ]

In general what is the desired effect of adding (bananas) to breads?

Yer s'posed to stick 'em in yer ears, ya dummy, not put 'em in yer =
bread.

Is that all you got to do? Guess being a student is not the same
as it was. =20

If you got some spare time, why not attend to the burgeoning seal
populations?

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

Each day guy comes in with bananas sticking out of his ears.
But, after a great while, comes in one day with carrots ...
Coworkers exclaim "How come you got carrots sticking out of your ears?"
Guy replies "Couldn't find no bananas."
: )

As a physicist myself, I am interested in the prospect of alternative energy
sources. If cold fusion can be a research topic, why not warm sourdough
banana bread? It could be a major income producer in certain Central
American countries with excess bananas. And it could promote mandibular
muscle growth to boot--yet another health benefit. And if it tastes
good....

Dave "two names" Bazell

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

In general what is the desired effect of adding (bananas) to breads?

Yer s'posed to stick 'em in yer ears, ya dummy, not put 'em in yer bread.

Is that all you got to do? Guess being a student is not the same
as it was.

If you got some spare time, why not attend to the burgeoning seal
populations?

--
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

Each day guy comes in with bananas sticking out of his ears.
But, after a great while, comes in one day with carrots ...
Coworkers exclaim "How come you got carrots sticking out of your ears?"
Guy replies "Couldn't find no bananas."
: )

wrote in message ...

It ame out heavy and dense, but with a decent rise (~50%), and fully cooked,
but very chewy and moist. I am thinking it may be the effect of the amalayse
in the bananas. In general what is the desired effect of adding them to
breads?

It does not contain amylase but .....
Bananas contain sufficient amount of sugars (sucrose, glucose and
fructose) which contribute to the humectant properties of bananan
puree in a baked product.
Roy

Roy Basan wrote:

wrote in message
...

It ame out heavy and dense, but with a decent rise (~50%), and fully
cooked, but very chewy and moist. I am thinking it may be the effect of
the amalayse in the bananas. In general what is the desired effect of
adding them to breads?

It does not contain amylase

Yes they do, the effect has been well studied, in particular how various
handling mechanisms effect their activity :

"Effects of cold shock treatment on softening of postharvest banana and
some related enzymes activities ", Xuewu, D.; Xuequn, P.; Zhaoqi, Z.;
Zuoliang, J. 2002

Bananas contain sufficient amount of sugars (sucrose, glucose and
fructose) which contribute to the humectant properties of bananan puree in
a baked product.

Yes, the moisture was high, but the actual texture was very differnt from
what I observed in both breads (which are elastic) and loaves which are
crumbly. It may simply be that I baked something which was in between both,
some elasticity because it was kneeded, but not as much as bread because of
the low gluten content percentage wise because of the amount of additatives,
bananas, flax meal, etc. . I first though it may be the musclidge in the
flax but I have baked with that lots of times before and saw no great
effect.

I have another one in the fridge now which I will bake tomorrow and see if
the results are consistent.

--
Cliff Stamp
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus

Is that all you've got to do Dick, (Ben A. Newbie-Never), belittle posters
to the newsgroup? Guess retirement isn't what it was.

And, if you insist on passing along bad jokes in lieu of useful information,
at least you might try to find one you didn't hear in high school.

AB

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

In general what is the desired effect of adding (bananas) to breads?

Yer s'posed to stick 'em in yer ears, ya dummy, not put 'em in yer bread.

Is that all you got to do? Guess being a student is not the same
as it was.

If you got some spare time, why not attend to the burgeoning seal
populations?

--
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

Each day guy comes in with bananas sticking out of his ears.
But, after a great while, comes in one day with carrots ...
Coworkers exclaim "How come you got carrots sticking out of your ears?"
Guy replies "Couldn't find no bananas."
: )

"ab" wrote in message =
...
=20
... Guess retirement isn't what it was.

D'ya mean like when you were young?

And, if you insist on passing along bad jokes in lieu of useful =
information,
at least you might try to find one you didn't hear in high school.

[ ... ] (archaic bad joke deleted)

If you didn't like it, Mr. ab-man, why'd you play it back again?

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

FAQs at http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html
My bread here =
http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...e%5F3-9-04.jpg
(Send email for details.)

wrote in message ...


Yes they do, the effect has been well studied, in particular how various
handling mechanisms effect their activity :
Indeed
Most unripe fruits have their own amylses to convert the starches to
sugars during the ripening process. But they are not of importance to
grain starches.
Many of the amylases act on a particular starch substrate and they are
selective as well as have different effect if used on other substrates
not designed for it.
Most of the sugars present in fruits are in the sucrose,fructose and
glucose, therefore the pathway to its conversion from the fruit
complex carbohydrates are different
If all amylases are geneally active on all starches then why did
nobody added their own saliva to their bread dough instead of
diastatic malt.
Or in another way add chopped unripe apples to the dough to help
convert the flour starch to sugars for the yeast to ferment .
It is because technically these other amylases have little( or no)
functionality to grain starches.
BTW,
Saliva contains ptyalin which is considered also an amylase.

And in terms of optimum efficiency and activity the grain amylases are
the most suited for dough and baked products, not fruit , mammal
amylases etc.
Besides amylases are usually composed of alpha and beta amylase .
The only other source of amylase added to flour except malt) is the
microbial ones in particular the fungal type.The bacterial amylases
are of more specialized applications if added to the dough.
Fungal amylase acts differently than bacterial amylses on the dough.
What is beneficial to the dough( that is why it needs supplement is
the alpha amylase which converts starches to dextrins.The beta amylase
are already in the dough which converts the dextrins to maltose.


BTW,Another effect of grain amylase is to improve the oven spring of
the dough but in your bread it looks that the volume was depressed and
the crumb was tight.
Knowing the considerable amount of banana puree you added if it
contains grain functional amylses it could have dramatically improved
the volume and opened up crumb grain.
Therefore the main effect of that banana puree in baking is more due
to the sugars that help retain moisture,modify texture and taste.
Roy

On 1 Apr 2004 14:22:49 -0800, (Roy Basan) wrote:

wrote in message ...

It ame out heavy and dense, but with a decent rise (~50%), and fully cooked,
but very chewy and moist. I am thinking it may be the effect of the amalayse
in the bananas. In general what is the desired effect of adding them to
breads?

It does not contain amylase but .....
It must contain something similar then. Unripe bananas are
quite starchy, become sweet, sickly sweet even as they
ripen/over-ripen. Some kind of enzyme must be breaking down the
starch.
Bananas contain sufficient amount of sugars (sucrose, glucose and
fructose) which contribute to the humectant properties of bananan
puree in a baked product.
Roy

amateur amateur@home wrote in message . ..

It does not contain amylase but .....
It must contain something similar then. Unripe bananas are
quite starchy, become sweet, sickly sweet even as they
ripen/over-ripen. Some kind of enzyme must be breaking down the
starch.

There should be....
But the mechanism is not similar to the amylolytic conversion of grain
starches to fermentable sugars.
IF we have to study the ripening of fruits in general (from the point
of chemistry) in particular to changes in carbohydrates.
While still on the tree as the fruit grows starch content rises and
then drop to the negligible level during harvest.
Check Chemical Changes during the Ripening of Fruits. page 782-784
in Food Chemistry 2nd Edition by Belitz and Grosch printed by Springer
Verlag in 1999.
In that book there was an exhaustive explanation about the description
of certain fruits during ripening but its unclear what is the
principal mechanism that brought it out.
So far in that text they were not clear where the all sugars come.
It just say that starch level and hemicellulose level decrease when
sugars increase.
Indicating that its not a single pathway , i.e from starch to sugars
but even include pentosans( hemicellulose) etc which are broken down
by hemicellulase/pentossanase, and part of the product is sugar and
the rest are complex carbohydrates (usually higher saccharides.)
Incorporating these results in this current issue about the banana
enzymes, it will imply that fruit enzymes are of no use to grain
related enzymolysis which are more simplier and well studied in
comparison( such as the effect of amylase on cereal starches).
Roy

Roy Basan wrote:

Most unripe fruits have their own amylses to convert the starches to
sugars during the ripening process. But they are not of importance to
grain starches.

Obvious point Roy, I never even considered that enzymes can be highly
specific.

Therefore the main effect of that banana puree in baking is more due
to the sugars that help retain moisture,modify texture and taste.

So you would see a similar effect if you just added white sugar to the dough
and adjusted the water necessary to get a similar kneading responce?


--
Cliff Stamp
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus

wrote:

Roy Basan wrote:

Most unripe fruits have their own amylses to convert the starches to
sugars during the ripening process. But they are not of importance to
grain starches.

Obvious point Roy, I never even considered that enzymes can be highly
specific.

On rereading the tone of that statement was completely different than I
intended, better wording would be :

In retrospect that is a solid and obvious point Roy, I never considered the
fact that since enzymes can be highly specific they might have no effect on
the starches present in the bread flour.

--
Cliff Stamp
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/

The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long

Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus

wrote in message ...

So you would see a similar effect if you just added white sugar to the dough
and adjusted the water necessary to get a similar kneading responce?

Try Honey instead.
The natural sugar( ordinary honey) can approximates the performance
of sweet fruit puree, except that it does not have any fiber in it,
it does not change the bread crumb colour much , and it does not have
much residual flavor.

in article , Roy Basan at
wrote on 12/4/04 7:53 pm:

wrote in message
...

So you would see a similar effect if you just added white sugar to the dough
and adjusted the water necessary to get a similar kneading responce?

Try Honey instead.
The natural sugar( ordinary honey) can approximates the performance
of sweet fruit puree, except that it does not have any fiber in it,
it does not change the bread crumb colour much , and it does not have
much residual flavor.
Cane and Beet sugars are "natural", man refined them instead of bees.
Ellen

Ellen Wickberg wrote in message ...
in article , Roy Basan at
wrote on 12/4/04 7:53 pm:

wrote in message
...

So you would see a similar effect if you just added white sugar to the dough
and adjusted the water necessary to get a similar kneading responce?

Try Honey instead.
The natural sugar( ordinary honey) can approximates the performance
of sweet fruit puree, except that it does not have any fiber in it,
it does not change the bread crumb colour much , and it does not have
much residual flavor.
Cane and Beet sugars are "natural", man refined them instead of bees.
Ellen


Honey is therefore more 'natural' than cane and beet sugar that we
normally use.
What I emphasize in my previous reply to the poster is the
effectivity of honey in baking application with regards to prolonging
bread moistness,
A plain sugar syrup no matter if its raw sugar or refined cane sugar
cannot duplicate the performance of honey. In my previous baking
trials with fruit puree and honey, normal sugar syrup( except invert
syrup); honey can simulate the effectivity of fruit puree in such
application.
Roy