My roommate (who happens to be a colinary arts major) told me that bread
would rise faster if it were put in the fridge. This sounds weird, is it
true?

Kevin

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:19:45 -0500, Kevin Breit
wrote:

My roommate (who happens to be a colinary arts major) told me that bread
would rise faster if it were put in the fridge. This sounds weird, is it
true?

Kevin

Howdy,

Not true. Also not weird.

There are significant benefits of slowing the fermentation of bread
just as there are significant benefits of slowing the fermentation of
wine.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:36:29 -0500, Kenneth wrote:
There are significant benefits of slowing the fermentation of bread
just as there are significant benefits of slowing the fermentation of
wine.

What benefits are those?

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:41:31 -0500, Kevin Breit
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:36:29 -0500, Kenneth wrote:
There are significant benefits of slowing the fermentation of bread
just as there are significant benefits of slowing the fermentation of
wine.

What benefits are those?

Howdy,

I get a more complex taste (these things are hard for me to describe,
but I will give it a try. Particularly the crust gets a sweet-sour
taste that I love. There is a "nutty" taste added to the crumb); the
color improves (darker crust, with a reddish-brown hint), better
textu easier slash, and finally, coarser crumb.

I will also add that I have not the slightest idea why all this
happens. I started doing the fridge thing by accident: I had mixed
some dough years ago, glanced at my watch, and saw that I did not have
enough time to continue to the bake. I then figured that I would just
stick it in the fridge. The following day, I "discovered" the dough
again and decided to bake it. In truth I thought that it has probably
deteriorated somehow. I was delighted with the results, and continued
to use that process with lots of my loaves...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Your roommate should change his major, or pay closer attention in class and
take notes. It is this sort of inattention to instructors which causes Chefs
in the field to be so reluctant to hire culinary school graduates at a rate
of pay any higher than they would give to the new dishwasher working on a
GED (read minimum wage).

Allow me to educate you and your roommate on how yeast works, at a basic
level. Yeast is a biological organism which, in a high water activity and
low acidity environment of around body temperature, reproduces, consumes
sugars, and excretes carbon dioxide and alcohol. The gluten developed during
bread dough kneading helps to trap this expelled CO2. If yeast is cold, it
will not reproduce nearly as fast as it would if the temperature were
80~110°F. Yeast dies when it is in temperatures equal to or exceeding 140°F.
Therefore, butting a bread dough in the fridge will retard the activity of
the yeast, but the advantage is that more flavor (especially in a sourdoug)
will develop with the added rising time.

Were your roommate to proof dough in a fridge for a shorter time than the
room temp called for, and then bake that dough, he would end up with a loaf
of bread so dense that it would have its own gravity, and would be
practically inedible.



"Kevin Breit" wrote in message
news
My roommate (who happens to be a colinary arts major) told me that bread
would rise faster if it were put in the fridge. This sounds weird, is it
true?

Kevin

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:35:22 -0600, Chef Riggy wrote:

Allow me to educate you and your roommate on how yeast works, at a basic
level. Yeast is a biological organism which, in a high water activity and
low acidity environment of around body temperature, reproduces, consumes
sugars, and excretes carbon dioxide and alcohol. The gluten developed during
bread dough kneading helps to trap this expelled CO2. If yeast is cold, it
will not reproduce nearly as fast as it would if the temperature were
80~110°F. Yeast dies when it is in temperatures equal to or exceeding 140°F.
Therefore, butting a bread dough in the fridge will retard the activity of
the yeast, but the advantage is that more flavor (especially in a sourdoug)
will develop with the added rising time.

Were your roommate to proof dough in a fridge for a shorter time than the
room temp called for, and then bake that dough, he would end up with a loaf
of bread so dense that it would have its own gravity, and would be
practically inedible.

Thank you very much for the explanation. While I had an idea of the
process, I wasn't as informed about why you knead and the temperatures
which yeast prefers. Now I must find a room that is 80 degrees :/

Kevin

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:49:07 -0500, Kevin Breit
wrote:

Thank you very much for the explanation. While I had an idea of the
process, I wasn't as informed about why you knead and the temperatures
which yeast prefers. Now I must find a room that is 80 degrees :/

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Well yes, if you want to have your bread rise as quickly as possible.

If, instead, you want the most flavorful bread, I would suggest that
you slow the fermentation down a bit (by cooling things some).

As I may have mentioned earlier, bread is rather like wine in this
regard: slower fermentation produces more flavor.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kevin Breit wrote:

Thank you very much for the explanation. While I had an idea of the
process, I wasn't as informed about why you knead and the temperatures
which yeast prefers. Now I must find a room that is 80 degrees :/

If you have a SF starter, it does quite well at 60-70 (16C-20C).

B/

"Kenneth" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:49:07 -0500, Kevin Breit
wrote:


Hi Kevin,

Well yes, if you want to have your bread rise as quickly as possible.

If, instead, you want the most flavorful bread, I would suggest that
you slow the fermentation down a bit (by cooling things some).

As I may have mentioned earlier, bread is rather like wine in this
regard: slower fermentation produces more flavor.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

I said that in my response:

"Therefore, butting a bread dough in the fridge will retard the
activity of the yeast, but the advantage is that more flavor (especially in
a sourdoug) [sic] will develop with the added rising time."

"Kenneth" wrote in message
...

As I may have mentioned earlier, bread is rather like wine in this
regard: slower fermentation produces more flavor.

"Chef Riggy" wrote in message=20
...

said that in my response: "... putting a bread dough in the fridge=20
will retard the activity of the yeast, but the advantage is that more=20
flavor (especially in sourdoug) [sic] will develop with the added=20
rising time."

When it comes to mining the Old Wives Tales of Sourdough Antiquity,
I think we are approaching the Mother Lode with this one.

What evidence can be cited that the biological processes which=20
produce flavor are not temperature dependent in the same way
as are the rest of the fermentation reactions?

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastnameat bigfoot dot com

I believe the thought is not that the processes which produce flavor are
temperature dependent but TIME dependant. Slowing the rise by cooling
buys the time necessary for the development of additional flavor complexity.



Dick Adams wrote:

What evidence can be cited that the biological processes which
produce flavor are not temperature dependent in the same way
as are the rest of the fermentation reactions?

On 3/22/04 5:18 PM, "jajaj" wrote:

I believe the thought is not that the processes which produce flavor are
temperature dependent but TIME dependant. Slowing the rise by cooling
buys the time necessary for the development of additional flavor complexity.


Maybe. But I think different leavening organisms work at different
temperatures. So modulating the temperature allows the baker to tune the
fermentation.

Historically, fermentation TIME was managed to fit the oven schedule. As
in... It takes a whole lotta wood in the oven before the beast heats up.

Will




Dick Adams wrote:

What evidence can be cited that the biological processes which
produce flavor are not temperature dependent in the same way
as are the rest of the fermentation reactions?

_______________________________________________
rec.food.sourdough mailing list

http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough

Dick Adams wrote:


What evidence can be cited that the biological processes which
produce flavor are not temperature dependent in the same way
as are the rest of the fermentation reactions?


What evidence do you have that all biological processes react
with temperature to produce an identical congruent activity graph
line across a given temperature range?

If different reactions procede at different rates at various
temperatures, than you have to admit , at least the possibility,
that fermenting at different temperatures could produce different
results.

Anyway, when everyone can try fermenting their bread dough at
different temperatures and see for themselves if they note a
difference, it is silly to just argue about it.

Personally, I tend to like cool room temperature for plain white
wheat bread.

Regards,

Charles
-
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Charles Perry wrote:


If different reactions procede at different rates at various
temperatures, than you have to admit , at least the possibility,
that fermenting at different temperatures could produce different
results.


To be clear, I should say:

If different reactions have different *rates of change* across a
band of temperatures...

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...

"Chef Riggy" wrote:

said that in my response: "... putting a bread dough in the fridge
will retard the activity of the yeast, but the advantage is that more
flavor (especially in sourdoug) [sic] will develop with the added
rising time."

When it comes to mining the Old Wives Tales of Sourdough Antiquity,
I think we are approaching the Mother Lode with this one.

What evidence can be cited that the biological processes which
produce flavor are not temperature dependent in the same way
as are the rest of the fermentation reactions?

Regardless of how it is happening, retarding dough in the refrigerator
results in a difference in the final loaf. Whether this difference is good
or bad is a matter of taste.

I'd never tried retarding dough until a few days before last Thanksgiving
when I was making some bread and got pulled away. I stuck a pan loaf in the
refrigerator to buy myself some time. I wasn't able to get back to it until
two days later. I didn't have much hope for the bread but baked it anyway.
Even though the loaf as a whole was not very spectacular, in my opinion, the
crumb was about the best I'd achieved. It has largish irregular holes and
had a slightly but not overly gelatinous texture. This got me thinking that
there might be something to this retarding stuff. Since then I've been
experimenting with retarding bread, making loaves as identical as possible
with the exception of retarding some and not others. In almost every case I
got a crumb texture and flavor I prefer in the retarded loaves.

One thing I have found is that retarding the dough during the final rise is
what seems to have the biggest impact on the final loaf. I've tried doing an
initial rise in the refrigerator and the final rise the "regular" way and
the difference were indistinguishable to me.

Why it happens, I don't know. I'll leave the figuring out to people smarter
than I.

-Mike